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Zac Rinaldo (2013-14 season) -- Update Apr. 7, 2014: Suspended four games

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Old
01-03-2014, 02:01 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Fs View Post
With all due respect I think figure skating as being more your speed.

Ps:How bad would it be if there wasnt't NO threat there?
It would be absolutely no different. There is no threat now, because Rinaldo is rarely even on the ice...what's he gonna do, stare at players angrily? Yeah, that'll do it. Nobody has to pay for their actions unless they want to. If they're made to, then the idiot responsible is going to put his team in a terrible place and it doesn't undo what's already been done. He's not Brashear in his prime, capable of playing 15 minutes a night and actually being useful. If he's never on the ice, he can't police a damned thing. All he does this year is bring the team down.

I don't like figure skating all that much. If you feel the need to insult me to advance your hilariously flawed point, then perhaps your point has no merit?

You know what I do like? Winning hockey teams, especially when my hockey team is winning. You know what makes winning harder? Players like Rinaldo, who has done nothing but bring the team down this year. Hockey teams are better when they don't trot out bad players. Guys like Rosehill and Rinaldo are bad players. They aren't Lucic or Dave Schultz, no matter how much some Flyers fans like to pretend they are.

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Old
01-03-2014, 03:02 PM
  #77
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Kimmo has the same number of Goals against while on the ice at EV.

Kimmo has played 587.42 minutes mainly vs the other teams best players.

Rinaldo has played 277.52 minutes mainly vs 4th lines.

His GAOn figures are the worst of anyone in the league who plays less than 11 minutes EV. (All the others who were close to as bad as him earlier in the year have found themselves no longer in the league.)

Overall his GAOn/60 is 16th worst in the NHL.

His GFOn/60 is 3rd worst in the NHL.

His +/-/60 is THE WORST in the NHL.

His Corsi rel is 17th worst in the NHL.

His Corsi On is 22nd worst in the NHL.

He takes THE MOST penalties per 60 in the NHL. 2.2 more than he draws, also THE WORST differential in the NHL.

He does all that with the 9th easiest QoC among forwards in the whole NHL.

So far this year he has basically been the worst regular forward in the whole NHL statistically.

I honestly thought he was turning into a good 4th liner last year... duno what happened but he has been awful so far.

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01-03-2014, 03:09 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Kimmo has the same number of Goals against while on the ice at EV.

Kimmo has played 587.42 minutes mainly vs the other teams best players.

Rinaldo has played 277.52 minutes mainly vs 4th lines.

His GAOn figures are the worst of anyone in the league who plays less than 11 minutes EV. (All the others who were close to as bad as him earlier in the year have found themselves no longer in the league.)

Overall his GAOn/60 is 16th worst in the NHL.

His GFOn/60 is 3rd worst in the NHL.

His +/-/60 is THE WORST in the NHL.

His Corsi rel is 17th worst in the NHL.

His Corsi On is 22nd worst in the NHL.

He takes THE MOST penalties per 60 in the NHL. 2.2 more than he draws, also THE WORST differential in the NHL.

He does all that with the 9th easiest QoC among forwards in the whole NHL.

So far this year he has basically been the worst regular forward in the whole NHL statistically.

I honestly thought he was turning into a good 4th liner last year... duno what happened but he has been awful so far.
If not for Rinaldo, Wilson would have viciously boarded Schenn headfirst at the goal line though. Oh, wait:



Turns out the sort of player who does that isn't all that afraid of tough guys who get minimal ice time and may never be on the ice with them all game. Who would've thought?

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01-03-2014, 03:17 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Kimmo has the same number of Goals against while on the ice at EV.

Kimmo has played 587.42 minutes mainly vs the other teams best players.

Rinaldo has played 277.52 minutes mainly vs 4th lines.

His GAOn figures are the worst of anyone in the league who plays less than 11 minutes EV. (All the others who were close to as bad as him earlier in the year have found themselves no longer in the league.)

Overall his GAOn/60 is 16th worst in the NHL.

His GFOn/60 is 3rd worst in the NHL.

His +/-/60 is THE WORST in the NHL.

His Corsi rel is 17th worst in the NHL.

His Corsi On is 22nd worst in the NHL.

He takes THE MOST penalties per 60 in the NHL. 2.2 more than he draws, also THE WORST differential in the NHL.

He does all that with the 9th easiest QoC among forwards in the whole NHL.

So far this year he has basically been the worst regular forward in the whole NHL statistically.

I honestly thought he was turning into a good 4th liner last year... duno what happened but he has been awful so far.
It's even worse than the eyeball test would suggest. Man those are some miserable numbers.

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01-03-2014, 03:19 PM
  #80
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Adam Cracknell was waived by the Blues. Any interest there? He's got to be a better hockey player than Rinaldo and Rosehill.

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01-03-2014, 03:21 PM
  #81
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I know some people don't like the idea of Laughton being on the 4th line next year, but if it means Rinaldo goes down to the Phantoms or is the 13th forward it would be worth it.

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01-03-2014, 04:01 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Fs View Post
With all due respect I think figure skating as being more your speed.

Ps:How bad would it be if there wasnt't NO threat there?
The idea that enforcers prevent cheap shots has to be one of the great fallacies of our time. Let's say James Neal cheapshots, oh say, Sean Couturier with an elbow/forearm to the head. And let's even say that Rosehill or Rinaldo happen to be on the ice, challenges Neal, and Neal accepts. What exactly do you think happens from there? Do you think Rose-aldo beats Neal to a bloody pulp? That doesn't happen anymore. These days the refs step in as soon as it looks like anyone is actually going to get hurt. So if Neal wants to cheap shot one of the Flyers "stars", he can do so without any real fear of any serious retribution from Flyers players, Rose-aldo or no Rose-aldo. The deterrent now is Shanny's Dwarven Warhammer of Suspension+5. I guarantee you any player in the league will gladly take a few punches from an "enforcer" as opposed to missing a few games without pay.

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01-03-2014, 05:04 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
The idea that enforcers prevent cheap shots has to be one of the great fallacies of our time. Let's say James Neal cheapshots, oh say, Sean Couturier with an elbow/forearm to the head. And let's even say that Rosehill or Rinaldo happen to be on the ice, challenges Neal, and Neal accepts. What exactly do you think happens from there? Do you think Rose-aldo beats Neal to a bloody pulp? That doesn't happen anymore. These days the refs step in as soon as it looks like anyone is actually going to get hurt. So if Neal wants to cheap shot one of the Flyers "stars", he can do so without any real fear of any serious retribution from Flyers players, Rose-aldo or no Rose-aldo. The deterrent now is Shanny's Dwarven Warhammer of Suspension+5. I guarantee you any player in the league will gladly take a few punches from an "enforcer" as opposed to missing a few games without pay.
Hartnell tried to fight Neal last year after Neal cheap shotted Giroux, of course the refs stepped in as soon as Hartnell landed one punch. There needs to be some accountibility for taking a blatent cheap shot, but the Flyers do it themselves quite often. Like Schenns forecheck to the head against Chicago.

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01-04-2014, 03:07 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Kimmo has the same number of Goals against while on the ice at EV.

Kimmo has played 587.42 minutes mainly vs the other teams best players.

Rinaldo has played 277.52 minutes mainly vs 4th lines.

His GAOn figures are the worst of anyone in the league who plays less than 11 minutes EV. (All the others who were close to as bad as him earlier in the year have found themselves no longer in the league.)

Overall his GAOn/60 is 16th worst in the NHL.

His GFOn/60 is 3rd worst in the NHL.

His +/-/60 is THE WORST in the NHL.

His Corsi rel is 17th worst in the NHL.

His Corsi On is 22nd worst in the NHL.

He takes THE MOST penalties per 60 in the NHL. 2.2 more than he draws, also THE WORST differential in the NHL.

He does all that with the 9th easiest QoC among forwards in the whole NHL.

So far this year he has basically been the worst regular forward in the whole NHL statistically.

I honestly thought he was turning into a good 4th liner last year... duno what happened but he has been awful so far.
Looks like he'll get a chance to add some more thing to the list:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=24708

It seems like Zac is simply being held back.

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01-04-2014, 03:16 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Looks like he'll get a chance to add some more thing to the list:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=24708

It seems like Zac is simply being held back.
Hes coming, said coach Craig Berube. Hes been good without the puck. He skates hard and hes physical and hes been staying out of the penalty box, which is good.

Looks like Berube has a different definition of that that the rest of the world... considering he has the most minutes in it per minute played in the NHL!

Reading that you kind of get why players say they are fine when hit in the head with the Raffl situation... even though ofc I don't condone that and the testing needs to be safe rather than sorry.

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01-04-2014, 04:03 PM
  #86
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In his last ten games, he's taken two minors, and I remember one being a really bad charging call on a routine hit behind the net. Can't recall the details of his other charging call.

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01-04-2014, 04:04 PM
  #87
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In his last ten games, he's taken two minors, and I remember one being a really bad charging call on a routine hit behind the net. Can't recall the details of his other charging call.
In his last ten games he's also a -6.

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01-04-2014, 04:10 PM
  #88
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In his last ten games he's also a -6.
.881 even strength save percentage when he's been on the ice this year.

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01-04-2014, 06:34 PM
  #89
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I think Berube read him the riot act after the debacle in Dallas.

But not taking as many penalties doesn't mean he's a productive player.

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01-04-2014, 07:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
In his last ten games, he's taken two minors, and I remember one being a really bad charging call on a routine hit behind the net. Can't recall the details of his other charging call.
............................... solid jinx work.

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01-04-2014, 07:50 PM
  #91
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Ha, to be fair, that elbowing call was an absolute atrocity.

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01-04-2014, 10:42 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Carcillo - Betts - Lappy blows away what we have now.

I'm harping on it because little inefficiencies add up (especially in a capped league with a lot of parity). Rostering players like Rosehill and Rinaldo is a self-inflicted impediment that basically serves to counteract some of the smarter moves the team has made (signing free agents like Read and Raffl, for example). I don't know if you're familiar with the book The Extra 2% about the Tampa Bay Rays http://extra2percent.com/about/, but the same philosophy is begging to be applied here.

The difference between a playoff spot and a short season could only be a few points. A guy who is skating at -13 ES hockey in less than 300 minutes is putting us in a hole in a competition where the margin is razor-thin. This team currently sits at 18th in the league in goal differential. If you replaced Rosehill and Rinaldo with players who only sucked half as bad, you'd be hovering around even and vying for 12th in the league. Just getting rid of these terrible players and replacing them with semi-competent 4th liners who can be acquired for basically nothing would be a coup equivalent to adding a Matt Read to your roster for free. The only thing holding the Flyers back is their own fear of life without the Riley Cotes, Jody Shelleys, Zac Rinaldos and Jay Rosehills of the world (it's funny how they always wind up being dissatisfied with their performance on ice and toss them away only to replace them with someone just as bad, then repeat).
He's a lot worse then I thought at the time of my post after seeing those numbers that have been posted.

Like I said before though, it's rare that our fourth line is actually legitimate a la Carcillo-Betts-Lappy and even then Carcillo had a tendency to be a lunatic at times.

I definitely agree with you and I'm not a fan of Rinaldo anymore, I just don't expect it to change. When is the last time you remember our fourth line not having someone insanely stupid or goonish on it? More often then not there is. Shelley, Cote, Carcillo, Rinaldo, Rosehill (though he's been better lately), etc.

Guys like Hall, Betts, and Lappy are examples of quality fourth liners. The Flyers though seem to have some inner need to put a useless player on their fourth line every year if not more then one for some reason. It's something most of the NHL does, but still you get my point.

Rinaldo is horrible but I don't expect to lose him this season or for this philosophy to change.

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01-05-2014, 12:36 AM
  #93
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He made a nice pass to Giroux tonight on a 2 on 1 and it left my jaw on the floor. Like Rinaldo really made that pass? Not that it was the most amazing play, but it was Rinaldo after all. With that said, Vandevelde is a better hockey player than Rinaldo.

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01-05-2014, 12:54 AM
  #94
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-13 penalties, down 16-3 ES goals after tonight.

I'm not saying I expect the philosophy to change, but if there's any hope, maybe performance this astronomically poor will catch the FO's attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
.881 even strength save percentage when he's been on the ice this year.
PDO should not be expected to regress to 1000 for extremely bad players.

Rinaldo is down 140-97 in ES shots, 198-151 in Fenwick and 268-202 in Corsi events.

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01-05-2014, 08:34 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
Ha, to be fair, that elbowing call was an absolute atrocity.
Basically what we hear with half of his penalties. At times it's not a Zac Rinaldo thing as it is a coaching thing.

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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
-13 penalties, down 16-3 ES goals after tonight.

I'm not saying I expect the philosophy to change, but if there's any hope, maybe performance this astronomically poor will catch the FO's attention.



PDO should not be expected to regress to 1000 for extremely bad players.

Rinaldo is down 140-97 in ES shots, 198-151 in Fenwick and 268-202 in Corsi events.
Would you say it's already regressed, because his first year he had a 1001 PDO

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01-05-2014, 09:27 AM
  #96
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It's really too bad he's struggled this season. Last year it looked like he was on the verge of being more than just a 4th liner

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01-05-2014, 12:54 PM
  #97
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Ha, to be fair, that elbowing call was an absolute atrocity.
Rinaldo gets screwed on calls more than any player I can recall. That's a separate issue from his play, which seems to have regressed this year. But I'm willing to slightly give him a pass considering he often gets 2 minutes for playing hockey.

When everybody is healthy neither Zac or Rosehill should be seeing the ice. Vandevelde-Hall-Downie is solid, you could actually roll 4 lines and give that 4th line a regular shift and not be hurting yourself. Or if you'd rather a more physical presence give McGinn a shot, he skates pretty well, he can be physical, and he'll give you a simple north-south game without hurting you in your own end.

I like Rinaldo and I get why the FO and Berube like him. He's physical and fast so they see an ideal "energy guy". But between his play and the penalties (they still count, even if some aren't legit) he's hurting the team.

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01-05-2014, 04:22 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
He made a nice pass to Giroux tonight on a 2 on 1 and it left my jaw on the floor. Like Rinaldo really made that pass? Not that it was the most amazing play, but it was Rinaldo after all. With that said, Vandevelde is a better hockey player than Rinaldo.
It was an easy feed to a wide open Giroux though, nothing really jaw dropping about it. basically 2 on 0. And the Goalie was waiting for Giroux to receive the pass and blocked it easily. I thought Rinaldo probably had a better angle to shoot than Giroux did.

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01-05-2014, 04:25 PM
  #99
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With Berube liking fast skaters, I think Rinaldo will get every chance to improve and break out of his overall slump. But I have no idea if he's actually good enough to ever improve or not.

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01-05-2014, 04:59 PM
  #100
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It was an easy feed to a wide open Giroux though, nothing really jaw dropping about it. basically 2 on 0. And the Goalie was waiting for Giroux to receive the pass and blocked it easily. I thought Rinaldo probably had a better angle to shoot than Giroux did.
Rinaldo is not a good hockey player, but give credit where credit is due. It was a 2 on 1 and the defensemen closed in on Rinaldo while also putting his stick down to block the pass to Giroux. Rinaldo elevated the puck to Giroux and put it right on the tape. Mike Smith made a good read and good save.

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