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01-05-2014, 10:16 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I'd like to think you're smarter than that. Let me know the last time they scored 7 goals for Lundqvist.
1. The team (not) scoring goals, doesn't prevent him from saving shots

2. When was the last time (aside from Florida) that Lundqvist gave up less than not even 2 but less than 3 goals?

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01-05-2014, 10:20 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
1. The team (not) scoring goals, doesn't prevent him from saving shots

2. When was the last time (aside from Florida) that Lundqvist gave up less than not even 2 but less than 3 goals?
Im not absolving Lundqvist -- but having watched all their starts, I think its quite clear that the team hunkers down more in front of Talbot. The Grade A chances are minimized.

I cant explain it, but I'd keep starting him until it stops. I understand chastising Lundqvist is the cool contrarian thing to do nowadays.

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01-05-2014, 10:44 AM
  #203
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Talbot's fundamentals are so solid. I won't argue that the team seems to play better in front of him, but I would argue that part of that effort stems from Talbot's ability to calmly make the big save. Last night he made several saves early in the game that didn't look flashy but were actually quality chances. The kid deserves a little credit, he's been spectacular.

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01-05-2014, 10:50 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not absolving Lundqvist -- but having watched all their starts, I think its quite clear that the team hunkers down more in front of Talbot. The Grade A chances are minimized.

I cant explain it, but I'd keep starting him until it stops. I understand chastising Lundqvist is the cool contrarian thing to do nowadays.

Its really tough to absolve Hank of any blame and put all the blame on the the rangers. Its also unfair to Talbot because as much as i hate to say it he has been far more impressive tha Hank this year. hank can still play the way he used to BUT he has to show more fire and mental toughness. The thing i love about Talbot is that he is never rattled

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01-05-2014, 10:51 AM
  #205
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I disagree that the defense plays any better in front of Talbot. They gave up plenty of fine scoring chances to the Leafs last night. Talbot is just simply playing better. The offensive output has been inconsistent all year. That won't change whether it's Lundqvist or Talbot.

Talbot should start because he's playing better and Lundqvist is struggling so much.

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01-05-2014, 10:56 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by rdhstlr23 View Post
I disagree that the defense plays any better in front of Talbot. They gave up plenty of fine scoring chances to the Leafs last night. Talbot is just simply playing better. The offensive output has been inconsistent all year. That won't change whether it's Lundqvist or Talbot.

Talbot should start because he's playing better and Lundqvist is struggling so much.
This. Look i agree that Lundqvist isnt the only problem BUT anybody who is objective will tell you that Hank is having the worst year of his career by a mile

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01-05-2014, 11:14 AM
  #207
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Saying the defense plays better in front of Talbot is selective memory. He made at least 5 grade A stops last night.

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01-05-2014, 11:16 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Saying the defense plays better in front of Talbot is selective memory. He made at least 5 grade A stops last night.

Its mostly Hank fans who dont wont to give Talbot any credit.

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01-05-2014, 11:37 AM
  #209
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Great players make the players around them better. Clearly that's why the team is so much better in front of Cam. It's not a coincidence that the offense produces more. dare i say Cam is the best offensive goalie in the league

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01-05-2014, 11:39 AM
  #210
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Talbot is not flashy but he is so steady and that helps the defense. His biggest plus to me is he handles the puck so well he gets the rush started a lot and has very little rebounds. Plus, the guys seem to LOVE playing with him in goal, it sparks them.

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01-05-2014, 11:50 AM
  #211
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I agree that Hank is not playing good at the moment, considering his high level of play earlier seasons. However, how do you explain that the rangers scores an average of 3.08 G/G with Talbot in net (13 games sample size), but only 2.23 G/G with Hank (30 games sample size).

It's obvious that either the rest of the team steps up when they play with Talbot in net, or that Talbot on average faces weaker teams.

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01-05-2014, 11:58 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Pjosk View Post
I agree that Hank is not playing good at the moment, considering his high level of play earlier seasons. However, how do you explain that the rangers scores an average of 3.08 G/G with Talbot in net (13 games sample size), but only 2.23 G/G with Hank (30 games sample size).

It's obvious that either the rest of the team steps up when they play with Talbot in net, or that Talbot on average faces weaker teams.

Thats bull that talbot faces "weaker" team. I seemed to remember that he shutout the Canadiens which is a team that has owned Hank. Tired of the excuses for Hank. Im a Hank fan but he really needs to get it together

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01-05-2014, 11:59 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjosk View Post
I agree that Hank is not playing good at the moment, considering his high level of play earlier seasons. However, how do you explain that the rangers scores an average of 3.08 G/G with Talbot in net (13 games sample size), but only 2.23 G/G with Hank (30 games sample size).

It's obvious that either the rest of the team steps up when they play with Talbot in net, or that Talbot on average faces weaker teams.
You can explain it because Hank's poor play kills any momentum they can build. They have had to compensate more for Hank as well.

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01-05-2014, 12:00 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I'd like to think you're smarter than that. Let me know the last time they scored 7 goals for Lundqvist.
I'd like to think you're smarter than that. Let me know what the 7 goals actually matters to the debate.

Perhaps if they were not nervous about Lundqvist sucking the life out of another game the offense would open it up a bit more like they do at times in front of Talbot.

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01-05-2014, 12:05 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I'd like to think you're smarter than that. Let me know the last time they scored 7 goals for Lundqvist.
I agree with what you're saying but I don't think anyone's opinion is gonna be swayed on this topic.

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01-05-2014, 12:08 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
I agree with what you're saying but I don't think anyone's opinion is gonna be swayed on this topic.
One random offensive outburst has nothing to do with Lundqvist's horrendous play for much of the year. If we had scored 7 for him, he may have given up 5.

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01-05-2014, 12:10 PM
  #217
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Talbot played a good game. Hopefully it continues

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01-05-2014, 12:23 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Talbot played a good game. Hopefully it continues
He has played good games all year. The Jet game is the only subpar game i could think of

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01-05-2014, 12:25 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
He has played good games all year. The Jet game is the only subpar game i could think of
I agree. I'm usually defending Hank but it wont hurt to let Talbot start. Just sucks when people make it sound worse than it is

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01-05-2014, 12:26 PM
  #220
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Time for more debunking for the Lundqvist apologists:

Talbot has started 12 games. In those 12 games he's 9-3-0 with 2 shutouts, allowed one goal three times, and two goals five times.

10 of 12 starts he allowed two goals or less.

10.

And he's 9-3. The Rangers have scored two goals or less in six games he started. He's 3-3 in those games, so there goes the theory that the team cant win games when they arent scoring 3 or 4 goals a game.

Lundqvist has given up three goals or more in 9 of his last 10 starts. In those starts he has given up at least two goals in the 1st period six times, and in two of those games he gave up the first two goals of the 2nd period in a 0-0 game.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp? Being down 2-0 10 mins into a game changes the entire complexion of the game. In fact, in three of Henrik's December losses, the team came back from two-goal deficits to either take the lead or tie, only to have the team lose the game.

There werent any message boards back in 1990, but there were certainly fan boys. Vanbiesbrouck had an entire legion of supporters even though he was friggin brutal since his Vezina but nobody every challenged him. Froese, Scott....they all sucked.

Richter came along and took the team and the league by surprise. Nobody wanted to admit it, but Richter was clearly competent to split the workload with Beezer and over the next three seasons he did.

Talbot is a very sound goalie. Is he a flash in the pan? Who the hell cares. He's playing better than the "better" guy. I dont care how much money the other guy makes or what he did in his previous years.

Sports is a results-based industry. You think AV cares about Lundqvist's contract? He wants wins because wins keeps him employed.

Dominik Hasek was a third string backup to Eddie Belfour and Jimmy Waite in Chicago, then backed up Grant Fuhr in Buffalo.

And youre nuts if you dont think the players feel more confident playing with Talbot than they do with Lundqvist. I guess they like not trailing 2-0 in the 1st every friggin game.

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01-05-2014, 12:27 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
I agree. I'm usually defending Hank but it wont hurt to let Talbot start. Just sucks when people make it sound worse than it is

Well i agree i dont blame everything on Hank. However he has had his worst season and just signed a huge contract. So cant blame people for being upset/nervous at his play considering we will be getting top dollar for goalies

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01-05-2014, 12:30 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Time for more debunking for the Lundqvist apologists:

Talbot has started 12 games. In those 12 games he's 9-3-0 with 2 shutouts, allowed one goal three times, and two goals five times.

10 of 12 starts he allowed two goals or less.

10.

And he's 9-3. The Rangers have scored two goals or less in six games he started. He's 3-3 in those games, so there goes the theory that the team cant win games when they arent scoring 3 or 4 goals a game.

Lundqvist has given up three goals or more in 9 of his last 10 starts. In those starts he has given up at least two goals in the 1st period six times, and in two of those games he gave up the first two goals of the 2nd period in a 0-0 game.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp? Being down 2-0 10 mins into a game changes the entire complexion of the game. In fact, in three of Henrik's December losses, the team came back from two-goal deficits to either take the lead or tie, only to have the team lose the game.

There werent any message boards back in 1990, but there were certainly fan boys. Vanbiesbrouck had an entire legion of supporters even though he was friggin brutal since his Vezina but nobody every challenged him. Froese, Scott....they all sucked.

Richter came along and took the team and the league by surprise. Nobody wanted to admit it, but Richter was clearly competent to split the workload with Beezer and over the next three seasons he did.

Talbot is a very sound goalie. Is he a flash in the pan? Who the hell cares. He's playing better than the "better" guy. I dont care how much money the other guy makes or what he did in his previous years.

Sports is a results-based industry. You think AV cares about Lundqvist's contract? He wants wins because wins keeps him employed.

Dominik Hasek was a third string backup to Eddie Belfour and Jimmy Waite in Chicago, then backed up Grant Fuhr in Buffalo.

And youre nuts if you dont think the players feel more confident playing with Talbot than they do with Lundqvist. I guess they like not trailing 2-0 in the 1st every friggin game.
Richter, Hasek, Belfour, Fuhr, blah blah blah blah they dont play no more. Hank sucks this year, he will be back.

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01-05-2014, 12:32 PM
  #223
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I'm as big a fan of Hank as anybody, but you gotta ride Talbot at this point.

One of the thing I like about Hank, though, is that you can bet anything that he's just as disappointed with himself as his harshest critics are, and he's every bit as motivated to get better as he should be. I'm still confident that he'll recover with some time.

I'm still not sold on what we've seen of Talbot being representative of his future career, but he's hot right now and you gotta play the hot guy, especially when the other option is as cold as he's ever been. For the record, I hope he keeps this type of play up for years. He seems like a nice guy and a hard worker. I have absolutely no problem with this team holding both guys and shooting for having the best goalie situation in the league when/if Hank bounces back.

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01-05-2014, 12:32 PM
  #224
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And I like how every goal Henrik gives up has the prosecution and the defense arguing over whether it was a stoppable goal.

How about stopping the puck and leave nothing to talk about?

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01-05-2014, 12:32 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Well i agree i dont blame everything on Hank. However he has had his worst season and just signed a huge contract. So cant blame people for being upset/nervous at his play considering we will be getting top dollar for goalies
I just think a big part of that is the teams new defensive system and getting used to it. Hank hasnt looked the same and team defense hasnt looked the same. If one improves, hopefully the other does too but Hank is still the man imo

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