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Rangers Trading Players at Their Lowest Value

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Old
01-05-2014, 04:58 PM
  #1
Mr Atoz*
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Rangers Trading Players at Their Lowest Value

The impending De Zotto trade reminds all of us of the Rangers penchant to trade players when their value is at their lowest. I'm not even talking about all the insane trades for over the hill guys like the Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge travesty. I consider this more in line with trading Segei Zubov after he became a whipping boy when the Rangers forgot how to use him and he went on to regain his form and star status. Not that I'm putting Del Zotto in Zubov's class but I have a feeling that he will benefit from this trade and the Rangers won't.

There is a definite history with the Rangers of players that couldn't seem to play here yet were far better elsewhere. Alex Kovalev is another that comes to mind. Scores 25 goals here. Goes to Pittsburgh, scores 45, comes back here, does nothing, traded to Montreal (brought back the legendary Jozef Balej in return), scores 35 . Mark Savard, Doug Weight, Michael Rosival for.... Wojtek Wolski, Tyutin for Zeredev. The list seems endless. The notable exception to that was Gomez but if McDonagh didn't pan out all Higgins could do was sell hot dogs. Yes, we all understand that was a salary dump.... so we could sign Gaborik and then trade him for lesser players at his lowest value.... Oops!

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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM
  #2
SERE 24
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Yes, it's in our DNA. I don't think DZ has the upside to go beyond a nice #4 who gets PP time and can play higher or PK as needed. That's still a good career and I have a feeling he'll carve one out after he leaves our organization. What we get in return will likely not turn out as well but, I doubt MDZ has any chance of regaining his form if we hold onto him. Good stuff.

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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM
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mrhockey193195
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Trading players when their trade value is best (i.e. they're playing well) is an atrocious philosophy for running a competitive hockey team. It sends the message to current and future players - you play well here, and we'll reward your contributions by shipping you out.

By definition, you usually trade players when their value is lower than normal...otherwise why would you need to trade them?

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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM
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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The impending De Zotto trade reminds all of us of the Rangers penchant to trade players when their value is at their lowest. I'm not even talking about all the insane trades for over the hill guys like the Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge travesty. I consider this more in line with trading Segei Zubov after he became a whipping boy when the Rangers forgot how to use him and he went on to regain his form and star status. Not that I'm putting Del Zotto in Zubov's class but I have a feeling that he will benefit from this trade and the Rangers won't.

There is a definite history with the Rangers of players that couldn't seem to play here yet were far better elsewhere. Alex Kovalev is another that comes to mind. Scores 25 goals here. Goes to Pittsburgh, scores 45, comes back here, does nothing, traded to Montreal (brought back the legendary Jozef Balej in return), scores 35 . Mark Savard, Doug Weight, Michael Rosival for.... Wojtek Wolski, Tyutin for Zeredev. The list seems endless. The notable exception to that was Gomez but if McDonagh didn't pan out all Higgins could do was sell hot dogs. Yes, we all understand that was a salary dump.... so we could sign Gaborik and then trade him for lesser players at his lowest value.... Oops!
Yeah he's been lighting it up with his injury and his 20 points in 30 games since the trade. Brassard is younger and plays a more important position, also isn't nearly as injury prone. Oh and he won us a playoff series last year almost singlehandedly. Dorsett is a pretty good 4th liner. Stop crying over the Gaborik trade. Rangers fans have too much nostalgia but forget to look at reality sometimes.

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01-05-2014, 05:16 PM
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broadwayblue
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Yeah, I'll do that Gaborik trade every time.

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Old
01-05-2014, 05:20 PM
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Just cherry-picking one entry (like Zherdev, maybe?), but man do most posters on here overvalue Tyutin.

Before he went to Columbus, I was so freakin' sick of watching him handle every puck like it was a live hand grenade...and forget the puck in his skates, which he handled like a 5 y/o playing an intro to soccer clinic...

I know one season of Zherdev's bipolar play wasn't a great return by any means, but it's not like the Rangers EVER missed Fedor Tyutin on the blueline.

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01-05-2014, 05:22 PM
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Ok well Kreider's value is probably very hi right now, it's heading up for sure with his performance. So who wants to trade him right now?

Players get moved at lower value most of the time because they aren't working out on their teams or are playing poorly. The only time you see a guy get full value is if he's being moved for contract reasons or requests a trade. You mentioned Kovalev, do you think we trade him at all if he's scoring 45 goals here in New York? Thats why he was moved, for some unknown reason he just couldn't have big goal scoring seasons with the Rangers.

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01-05-2014, 05:23 PM
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Trade a player when he's playing well: negative reaction.

Trade a player when he's playing poorly: negative reaction.

Keep a player when he's playing poorly: negative reaction.

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01-05-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoddubnyRules View Post
Just cherry-picking one entry (like Zherdev, maybe?), but man do most posters on here overvalue Tyutin.

Before he went to Columbus, I was so freakin' sick of watching him handle every puck like it was a live hand grenade...and forget the puck in his skates, which he handled like a 5 y/o playing an intro to soccer clinic...

I know one season of Zherdev's bipolar play wasn't a great return by any means, but it's not like the Rangers EVER missed Fedor Tyutin on the blueline.
I wasn't a huge fan of Tyutin. Besides 2006 season, he was a turnover machine and Girardi constantly had to cleanup his defensive mistakes.

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01-05-2014, 05:26 PM
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ck20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The impending De Zotto trade reminds all of us of the Rangers penchant to trade players when their value is at their lowest. I'm not even talking about all the insane trades for over the hill guys like the Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge travesty. I consider this more in line with trading Segei Zubov after he became a whipping boy when the Rangers forgot how to use him and he went on to regain his form and star status. Not that I'm putting Del Zotto in Zubov's class but I have a feeling that he will benefit from this trade and the Rangers won't.

There is a definite history with the Rangers of players that couldn't seem to play here yet were far better elsewhere. Alex Kovalev is another that comes to mind. Scores 25 goals here. Goes to Pittsburgh, scores 45, comes back here, does nothing, traded to Montreal (brought back the legendary Jozef Balej in return), scores 35 . Mark Savard, Doug Weight, Michael Rosival for.... Wojtek Wolski, Tyutin for Zeredev. The list seems endless. The notable exception to that was Gomez but if McDonagh didn't pan out all Higgins could do was sell hot dogs. Yes, we all understand that was a salary dump.... so we could sign Gaborik and then trade him for lesser players at his lowest value.... Oops!
Higgins has been "selling hotdogs" in Vancouver now for 3 years at the low salary of 2.5mil/season. It's funny how a bunch of these "useless" players on the Rangers are amazing role players/players in general on any other team. PAP, Higgins, Rozsival, Korpi. Makes you realize how little of a plan there is behind the construction of the Rangers.

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01-05-2014, 05:31 PM
  #12
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The answer to this seems rather simple. Fire Sather and put a real, modern hockey mind in charge. Not some bumbling old idiot still living in 1988.

Not only is Del Zotto going to be traded at his lowest value, half the blame for his plummeting trade value falls on management.

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01-05-2014, 05:32 PM
  #13
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Did I miss something, was del zotto traded he hasn't been traded yet because his value is so low. Sather can either trade low, keep scratching him or try and force him on AV either way people are going to *****.

It's funny there's always a group of people who credit themselves with predicting the future, saying they advocated trading a guy after a good season before his game fell off a cliff as if they knew it was going to happen, we probably shoulda traded Staal too right after his brother walked into the arena because he was doomed from that second on.


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01-05-2014, 05:32 PM
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Let's trade McDonagh, Kreider, and Zuccarello now while their value is still high.

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01-05-2014, 05:36 PM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
Let's trade McDonagh, Kreider, and Zuccarello now while their value is still high.
RangerBoy has been yelling from the rooftops for that.

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01-05-2014, 05:37 PM
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If their value is high, why trade them if you want to be good? Only players like Boyle should have been traded during his 20 goal season.

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01-05-2014, 05:38 PM
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He's not saying that we should trade everyone with high value.

It comes down to the Rangers not having a plan. In 11-12, our top 2 LD looked set for years. McD and Staal were supposed to be the future there. (Now there's less certainty because of Staal's injuries) DZ looked to be the odd man out. That, or even last year, was the time to trade him, to fill in a bigger hole up front, or on RD. His value was higher back then, and it didn't look as if DZ was going to be part of the future, even then.

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01-05-2014, 05:46 PM
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bmoak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers Fail View Post
He's not saying that we should trade everyone with high value.

It comes down to the Rangers not having a plan. In 11-12, our top 2 LD looked set for years. McD and Staal were supposed to be the future there. (Now there's less certainty because of Staal's injuries) DZ looked to be the odd man out. That, or even last year, was the time to trade him, to fill in a bigger hole up front, or on RD. His value was higher back then, and it didn't look as if DZ was going to be part of the future, even then.

The problem there is that Staal's injuries, which started two years ago, meant the Rangers needed to keep DZ, as the team was competitive and had no one in the system to replace both Staal AND DZ. Same with Sauer's injury and retirement preventing the Rangers from exploring trading Girardi.

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01-05-2014, 05:50 PM
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They are bad at recognizing value and future value.

Gaborik was a good example. You knew he wouldn't be around forever. But instead of trading him after a 40 goal season they kept him until he was mostly broken down. And got minimal returns

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01-05-2014, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
The problem there is that Staal's injuries, which started two years ago, meant the Rangers needed to keep DZ, as the team was competitive and had no one in the system to replace both Staal AND DZ. Same with Sauer's injury and retirement preventing the Rangers from exploring trading Girardi.
Well now they seem to think that John Moore > Del Zotto, so I wouldn't exactly call their assessments "smart."

Hell, even the players they sent to CBJ in the Nash trade were at their lowest points in terms of trade value. Dubi and Artie had their worst seasons, and Erixon didn't do anything to affect his trade value whatsoever.

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01-05-2014, 05:58 PM
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Basically this is about trading away a player who isn't playing well and who the new coaching staff we've just recently hired doesn't seem to want.

I guess you have to assume that Del Zotto is going to be a difference maker and what he returns if he's traded you assume is not going to be as valuable but even so we might trade anyone at anytime depending on the return. Why ***** about something that hasn't happened yet and before you even know what's coming back.

We're not talking about a superstar here or even a star. He's a guy struggling to stay in the lineup and when he is in the lineup he's usually on the bottom pair.

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01-05-2014, 05:58 PM
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Yeah, this isn't an NYR thing. It describes most in-season, non-deadline deals for all teams.

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01-05-2014, 05:58 PM
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I really don't understand the point of this thread.

Unless you are shooting for a big fish from another team, you rearly trade away players that are performing, and thus on their highest value. The only other usual reason is that you're trying to shed salery or an expiring contract.

It is logical that players you want to get rid of because they are not performing won't have the highest trade value they can have. If they were there would be no reason for looking to trade them.

I don't get what the OP wants. If you want to trade away players at their highest value then right now you would be trying to get rid of Zuccarello, Kreider and McDonagh. Or looking back in time you would be trying to trade away Lundqvist in his Vezina winning season.

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01-05-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
The problem there is that Staal's injuries, which started two years ago, meant the Rangers needed to keep DZ, as the team was competitive and had no one in the system to replace both Staal AND DZ. Same with Sauer's injury and retirement preventing the Rangers from exploring trading Girardi.
Not to bring up a sidebar, but has any type of gossip/update come up about Sauer?

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01-05-2014, 06:04 PM
  #25
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I will point out that we got Gaborik by outbidding every other team for his services, with the exception of those cities that flat out weren't interested.

Now, this Del Zotto trade has been "impending" for about 2 months. I'm going to wait to see if it actually happens.

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