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Holmgren chose Luke Schenn over Yandle? Ouch.

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Old
01-05-2014, 10:23 PM
  #1
Damaged Goods
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Holmgren chose Luke Schenn over Yandle? Ouch.

According to Pannacio:

Quote:
The day the Flyers made the trade for Luke Schenn, the Coyotes offered Yandle to them hours before at the draft and GM Paul Holmgren turned them down. Same deal as what Toronto got.
http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-team-usa-more

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01-05-2014, 10:25 PM
  #2
OriginJM
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this already made the rounds in several threads

probably ********, and if it isn't, hindsight is 20/20 etc.

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01-05-2014, 10:25 PM
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FlyersFan61290
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No way it was JVR for Yandle straight up. A coyotes fan on the main boards said he remembered rumors and it was JVR plus. Obviously Homer wasn't comfortable with the plus.

Btw this is from Tim P so...


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 01-05-2014 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Typos
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01-05-2014, 10:30 PM
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The only way I can see Homer taking Schenn instead of Yandle, is that he still had hopes of resigning Carle for some reason, and wanted to get a more defensive minded dman back for JVR.

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01-05-2014, 10:35 PM
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Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
this already made the rounds in several threads

probably ********, and if it isn't, hindsight is 20/20 etc.
It's not hindsight, it's just finding out about it. Yandle was way better than Schenn 2009-2012.


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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
The only way I can see Homer taking Schenn instead of Yandle, is that he still had hopes of resigning Carle for some reason, and wanted to get a more defensive minded dman back for JVR.
That could be what it was. Still not a good idea to turn down better value.

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01-05-2014, 10:40 PM
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MiamiScreamingEagles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
No way it was JVR for Yandle straight up. A coyotes fan on the main boards said he remembered rumors and it was JVR plus. Obviously Homer wasn't comfortable with the plus.

Btw this is from Tim P so...
Most of the rumors centered around two forwards minimum for Yandle. An Elliotte Friedman text from weeks prior to the eventual trade was what was often considered to be the primary focus of any conversation:


Quote:
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
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Yandle price is steep. Two impact forwards, including someone who can be No.1 centre. Not getting traded unless offer PHO can't refuse.


10:54 AM - 3 Apr 2013
B. Schenn, Couturier, JVR and/or some combo was the point of refusal at one point during said rumors.

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01-05-2014, 10:44 PM
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We had Bryzgalov in net. The popular excuse was that the D wasn't protecting him enough. Schenn was more of the stay at home D Homer was going after. Yandle wasn't/isn't, and was also going to cost more.

Probably should have gone with Yandle anyways, if price could've been reduced, since the problem was Bryz, not the defense.

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01-05-2014, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We had Bryzgalov in net. The popular excuse was that the D wasn't protecting him enough. Schenn was more of the stay at home D Homer was going after. Yandle wasn't/isn't, and was also going to cost more.

Probably should have gone with Yandle anyways, if price could've been reduced, since the problem was Bryz, not the defense.
Eh, Yandle can break out but is soft on D, right? So we'd gripe about him the same way we do about Streit, and we'd be lacking one of our quality forwards to boot.

I think this is overblown, to be honest. Lots of deals don't happen, freaking out about them long after the fact is doing little good, especially since we have no idea what other deals or contingencies may have been in place.

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01-05-2014, 10:52 PM
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It's Timmy P. Therefore, it is incorrect.

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01-05-2014, 10:54 PM
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I'm guessing that the idea of the brothers Schenn pushing each sibling's potential to fruition was just too much for old Homer to pass on... Also, I too am not taking the rumor about the offer request of only JvR being gospel.

It also must be remembered that at the time of the trade both Luke and JvR were considered players that had not met their potential -- JvR showing signs of dominance but only for stretches and was inconsistent at best -- I believe Yandle was further along and JvR was not considered on a level field as him in development and reaching his potential... he was more of a gamble. JvR and Luke were equal gambles whose teams felt that a change of scenery was required and that they could be better with their Organization... It must also be remembered that most experts feel that D-Men take longer to develop than Forwards. Taking into consideration JvR's past inconsistency and the more time it takes to have a D-man reach maturity, I would not at this time close the book and say that Toronto won the trade hands down... I would wait until their prime years with the teams are complete to decide on the outcome. That said, if JvR continues as he has this season and Luke doesn't step it up... it certainly will not have been a good deal for the Flyers.

My guess is that Homer felt the deal with Toronto was a better all around fit for the Flyers... and we can only guess on the other offers and their details that Homer had on the table to consider.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 01-05-2014 at 11:01 PM.
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01-05-2014, 10:54 PM
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yeah it was jvr+

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01-05-2014, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We had Bryzgalov in net. The popular excuse was that the D wasn't protecting him enough. Schenn was more of the stay at home D Homer was going after. Yandle wasn't/isn't, and was also going to cost more.

Probably should have gone with Yandle anyways, if price could've been reduced, since the problem was Bryz, not the defense.

Terrible goaltending is actually a reason to take the better defensive player. You only want to reduce the overall number of shot events if you're expecting to lose the Sh% battle.

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01-05-2014, 11:06 PM
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Schenn is also a right handed defenseman. After the Flyers got eliminated in 2011, the beat writers ran that into the ground, saying how we needed a right handed shot on the backend. Whether or not that played into it isn't for me to say, but that could also have been a factor

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01-05-2014, 11:06 PM
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IF...AND A BIG IF...this is true then shame on Holmgren although my understanding at the time was that Phoenix was asking for Coots but asking and receiving are two different things. It's possible they were willing to trade Yandle for JVR 1 for 1 but I'm a bit skeptical. However, I do believe that Holmgren did have tunnel vision when it came to Schenn. As I noted ..JVR was a consequence of Bryz and Holmgren as well as Snider believing Bryz was actually a good goalie but needed to be "protected" more with stay at home D and Lavi altering his system. To me they just didn't want to admit they made a huge mistake and they wound up doubling down on it until they got their get out of jail free/amnesty card....

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01-05-2014, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Terrible goaltending is actually a reason to take the better defensive player. You only want to reduce the overall number of shot events if you're expecting to lose the Sh% battle.
Yeah, true. I retract my comment about going after Yandle anyways (assuming reduced price) because at the time I doubt anybody knew what the buyout situation would be; I didn't account for that. Bryz was the forseeable future, and shoring up the leaking works were a priority...the sieve was unlikely to be going anywhere at the time and he needed as much protection as humanly possible.

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01-05-2014, 11:16 PM
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Panotch is so far out of touch with the sport he covers I have trouble believing anything he says. The fool probably couldn't even tell you anything about Yandle other than the team he plays for.

Also that tweet from Friedman should put this rumor to rest even though he's a national guy.

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01-05-2014, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
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Yandle price is steep. Two impact forwards, including someone who can be No.1 centre. Not getting traded unless offer PHO can't refuse.


10:54 AM - 3 Apr 2013
Quote:
During draft weekend, it is believed that the Flyers inquired to Phoenix about the availability of All-Star defenseman Keith Yandle. Unfortunately for Philadelphia, the price tag was believed to be in the same ballpark of what Nashville wanted (pre-offer sheet) for Shea Weber: a combination of Sean Couturier, James van Riemsdyk or Brayden Schenn and more. The astronomical price tag is likely why the Yandle rumors died down in a hurry and the Flyers decided to make the one-for-one van Riemsdyk for Luke Schenn deal the next day.
-Bill Meltzer

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=45992



Between these two quotes from reliable sources, I'd say this rumor is bunk.

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01-06-2014, 12:46 AM
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rokkinman139
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Phoenix must have been on something to say that Yandle was worth that much. Yeesh

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01-06-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rokkinman139 View Post
Phoenix must have been on something to say that Yandle was worth that much. Yeesh
I think it was more like, they didnt want to trade him and that they would need to be blown away with an offer so that's what it would take. Sometimes the value of a player to a specific team is much higher than the value of the actual player.

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01-06-2014, 08:09 AM
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Yeah, ********.

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01-06-2014, 08:11 AM
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01-06-2014, 08:19 AM
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Yea like a lot of you have said it was not just for JVR and JVR was not the JVR he is now. He was worth a lot was. Good on Toronto for giving him a chance. But if we had given them
Schenn and JVR and a pick or couts at that time like they wanted we would have lost that trade too. At least this way we didn't lose those guys plus schenn is still young and I could see him settling into a shutdown role as he moves along.

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01-06-2014, 08:19 AM
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Pannacio article.

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01-06-2014, 08:21 AM
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Another fabricated story that will be treated as fact to back up the anti-Holmgren bias...

Other reports from the time this was going on say the price was steep, but one comment from a hack years later is being taken as truth. JVR+, what's the plus? Read? Simmonds?

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01-06-2014, 08:32 AM
  #25
tymed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
According to Pannacio:
well that's enough said.


double post, my bad.

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