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Old
01-03-2014, 07:00 PM
  #26
Striiker
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
This is about right...You run a tight ship my friend
I really hope you're joking.

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01-05-2014, 01:14 PM
  #27
rokkinman139
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
I don't care about those kinds of stats, I base my views of players based on how they appear to play and I notice Hartnell making 10 horrible mistakes for every 1 thing he does right. The only thing he's actually good at is standing in front of the net and redirecting pucks, which he hardly ever does anymore. I absolutely hate watching him play because of how obviously he drags down whatever lines he's on. How are you going to produce when you have a player on your line who can barely pass or shoot or even skate. On top of that his decision making is so unbelievably bad. I want him gone so badly, **** the "intangibles" he brings to the team, they're outweighed by how much he hurts the team.
Then don't be mad when people start discarding your opinion. Throughout his career here, and definitely this year, Hartnell has been one of the main drivers of play posting some of the best possession numbers on the team.

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01-05-2014, 01:23 PM
  #28
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Based on my evaluation of how each player individually does the job they're assigned, rather than being a "good" hockey player, with some advanced stats and role changes thrown in. I will defend these grades tooth and nail

Giroux-8
Raffl-8
Voracek-7.5
Schenn-6
Simmonds-6
Hartnell-7.5
Vinny-5
Couturier-8
Downie-7
Rinaldo-5
Rosehill-5
Hall-9

Timonen-6
Coburn-8
Schenn-6
Mez-3
Grossmann-9
Gus-6
Streit-7

Mason-8
Emery-5

If you disagree with any of these, feel free to write a reply and hopefully we can have a civilized discussion about that

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01-05-2014, 01:30 PM
  #29
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I think Rinaldo has been a 3. Agree with the rest.

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Old
01-05-2014, 03:33 PM
  #30
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1 is pitiful, 5 is average, 9 is terrific.

Giroux-8. Could have started off better and I wish he was better in the dot, but he does about what I'd expect of him. Even when people were starting with that leadership nonsense in the beginning of the season I didn't agree with it.

Raffl-9
. Can't really expect anything more then what he's given. Guy basically cost nothing to give a chance to and he's done very well. Good all-around game and adds flexibility to the lineup while producing offensively as of late. Also seemed to do well with Giroux.

Voracek-5
. Voracek is just an enigma. Guy could be so much more then what he is or what he does but he doesn't do badly enough to warrant complaint or wanting him gone or anything. Not really upset with him this season but I'm not impressed either.

Schenn-6.5. He's just a mixed bag for me. Guy is the best finisher on the team and best guy at putting himself in goal scoring positions but every other aspect of his game is so lackluster or average. If he ends up even putting up Hartnell-like production throughout his career I'm happy with that, but for a centerpiece of the Richards trade and a guy with so much talent and pedigree you just want a lot more.

Simmonds-7
. Started the year off really rough, but almost the entire team did really. As of late he's been on fire and is doing as expected. He's basically what I would want out of Hartnell if Hartnell were about a decade younger.

Hartnell-4.5. He just feels redundant on this team and when he isn't contributing in goals for he's painfully detrimental since he really doesn't provide anything else and he's not a good enough scorer to really have the luxury of having so many off nights. He's been better lately, but that doesn't change any of what I said.

Vinny-4
. This rating is part disappointment from his play and part just missing a lot of time with injuries. I wasn't a fan of the contract, but I was willing to accept it if he could bring some dominance in the dot. He's been horrible in that aspect though and I fear that contract really. Even if he ever stays healthy for a season he doesn't seem like a good enough player to make that contract worth it, especially given his age.

Couturier-7. He and his line were dominant earlier in the season but prior to that and since then he's just not impressive. As of late he's actually not doing well in all honesty. He's a player I'm fine with having patience with though and he did essentially carry us with that line for a little stretch. Just wish he were progressing faster but that's hard to happen when he's buried in a deep forward lineup.

Read-6. He is what he is. Two-way player that will chip in offensively if given opportunities. He hasn't been given as much opportunity as of late and he's injured so he isn't scoring as much as preferred. He's the exact type of player I like to compose a team with though. Was also part of that Couturier line.

Downie-6. He's been fine as long as you accept what he is. He's not a guy to carry the offense, he's a complementary scorer and he was part of our most dominant line so far this season even if it was relatively briefly. So no complaints.

Rinaldo-1. Advanced statistics that have been repeated a lot in his thread show just how horrible he's been. He's been a flat-out detriment this season and I can't remember one point of this season where he was a memorable and positive contribution.

Rosehill-5. He's actually turned out okay as far as that type of player goes. Doesn't stick out as badly as Rinaldo does and just kind of does his thing and nobody notices. He's done his role well. Don't think that will last beyond much more then this season, but still. Credit where it's due.

Hall-9. This is the exact type of player everyone should want in their fourth line.

Timonen-7. Hasn't been bad. At the beginning when the entire team struggled he got caught flat footed on the PP point at times and I wish he had more foot speed. He's also old and near retirement though. Wish he was at his old PP contribution, but he's been fine. Unless someone is brought in to replace him we'll see just how much we miss him when he's gone.

Coburn-8. He's been impressive mostly this season. Coburn has always been a heavy minute logger when at his best and a great skater and that's what he's done so far.

Schenn-5. Don't know what to think. He's gotten the shaft as far as lineup decisions go many times due to Berube/Meszaros and there was that ridiculous vague Dreger tweet about him that never seemed to have any credence to it but he isn't playing well like he was last season. It's very understandable though given the crap he's gone through this season. He's not a player who has an inherently high upside anyhow.

Mez-2. He gets a 2 instead of a 1 because he's actually helped out offensively a few times. Other then that don't get me started.

Grossmann-8. Another guy who's hard to have any qualms with once you accept what he is and what he does. Middling D that leans toward defensive play and excels at blocking shots. I love how he puts his body on the line.

Gus-7. It's hard to rate him considering he keeps getting the lineup shaft for Meszaros. He's played well in all of but like one game this season that he's played and he brings a style of play that our back-end could really use.

Streit-6.5. As far as his play this season goes it's not bad. About what I expect lately. Been making some really nice offensive plays the last few games and that's what I want to see. I still fear that contract though.

Mason-9
. I won't give anyone a 10 out of the fact that nobody is perfect really, but he's been pretty close. He had a bit of a stretch where he was a tad disappointing, but he's excelled and carried the team most of the time.

Emery-4.5. I guess he's doing as well as can be expected, but he's not an ideal backup option. Still, a backup is a backup I guess.

Press Box Gill-9.5. He heats the bus up after games and has taken cake baking lessons from Stevens. Invaluable intangibles.

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Old
01-05-2014, 04:31 PM
  #31
Striiker
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Originally Posted by rokkinman139 View Post
Then don't be mad when people start discarding your opinion. Throughout his career here, and definitely this year, Hartnell has been one of the main drivers of play posting some of the best possession numbers on the team.
Opinion would be saying I don't like his hair, saying he's been terrible a majority of the year is a fact. Nobody could possibly say he's been good other than the idiots on Reddit. He's been horrible and every line he's been on has been bad, with the exception of the last 7~ games.

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01-05-2014, 11:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Opinion would be saying I don't like his hair, saying he's been terrible a majority of the year is a fact. Nobody could possibly say he's been good other than the idiots on Reddit. He's been horrible and every line he's been on has been bad, with the exception of the last 7~ games.
Except the numbers show that he hasn't been. He may not always put up the points, but his possession numbers are well above 50% for the majority of the year, sometimes higher. And that even includes the times when he was on the first line. Saying he's bad because he's looked bad according to your eye is an opinion when the facts show otherwise

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Old
01-05-2014, 11:53 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by rokkinman139 View Post
Except the numbers show that he hasn't been. He may not always put up the points, but his possession numbers are well above 50% for the majority of the year, sometimes higher. And that even includes the times when he was on the first line. Saying he's bad because he's looked bad according to your eye is an opinion when the facts show otherwise
Except that common sense and actually paying attention during games shows that he has been. He's been bad, arguing that is admitting that you don't pay attention. You can use whatever numbers you want to ignore it but, with the exception of the last few games, he's been one of the worst on the entire team.

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Old
01-06-2014, 12:42 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Except that common sense and actually paying attention during games shows that he has been. He's been bad, arguing that is admitting that you don't pay attention. You can use whatever numbers you want to ignore it but, with the exception of the last few games, he's been one of the worst on the entire team.
He's not the prettiest player to watch, but he gets the job done. Even if he's not scroing, he's still driving play forward and creating shots on goal. People are so quick to turn on Hartnell while they know nothing about hockey. Not saying that you are in that group of "know nothings" because I don't know your background, I was just making a generalization.

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01-06-2014, 01:33 AM
  #35
Striiker
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Originally Posted by rokkinman139 View Post
He's not the prettiest player to watch, but he gets the job done. Even if he's not scroing, he's still driving play forward and creating shots on goal. People are so quick to turn on Hartnell while they know nothing about hockey. Not saying that you are in that group of "know nothings" because I don't know your background, I was just making a generalization.
I understand that Hartnell isn't the type of flashy skilled player that shows up on highlight reels, he's the hardworking/grinding type that contributes in ways that stats don't always show. I also know that he's been very successful in this role in the past and has been a huge part of this team for quite a while now. I have nothing against Hartnell at all, I think he's a great guy and I wish him all the success in the world. My point is that, although he has been putting up points lately and stats say that he hasn't been that bad, when I watch him play I see so many mistakes being made that are either because he makes bad decisions or he is just not skilled enough or physically able to do the things he attempts, which regularly hurts the team. These mistakes don't always show up on the stat sheet like the successful things he does may, but they are so frequent and blatant that I feel his cons outweigh his pros.

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