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Team Toughness II

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Old
01-05-2014, 11:41 PM
  #426
Dagoon44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR2047 View Post


And if all you want is toughness call up Mcilrath, Bickel, Haley, and Asham
We had them guys and had the best season since 94.. Dont forget toughest team in NHL resulted in a great season

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01-05-2014, 11:47 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
There's no dimension of the universe where Lucic is a generational talent. None. He's not even the best power forward in the league anymore.
That "Lucic is a generational talent" statement is just so wrong on so many levels.

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01-05-2014, 11:47 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
We had them guys and had the best season since 94.. Dont forget toughest team in NHL resulted in a great season
Well Haley and McIlrath weren't there. And it's true that the Rangers were a tough team and it's true that they had a great year, but to say one caused the other is a giant leap. If that were the case, why were the 03-04 Rangers any good?

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01-06-2014, 12:34 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
We had them guys and had the best season since 94.. Dont forget toughest team in NHL resulted in a great season
But... No Cup

The LA Kings were 18th in fights and won the cup

And last year the Blackhawks were 25th in fights and in 2010 when they won they were 24th

Toronto was first in fights last year and out in the first round

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01-06-2014, 12:43 AM
  #430
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So, because Lucic is the only player of his kind in the league, he's a generational talent?

Does that make Brian Boyle an all time great? Never seen a player like him

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01-06-2014, 01:38 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
You like men in prison is that the point u r trying to make...

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01-06-2014, 08:15 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
At risk of sounding like a broken record, this comes from the top. Sather has fostered a lazy, easy-way-out, culture.

Renney managed to overcome that because the standards were low and they stumbled upon a dynamic top line and elite goalie.

Torts managed to serve as a buffer between the players and the GM and demanded a level of play and intensity and the players bought in.

Now, with a roster that's not really suited to play any particular style and a softer coach, the team is amazingly fragile.
That just about sums it up. The term "poorly constructed" comes to mind as a hallmark of Sather. A horrible combination of undervaluing what you have, the desire for new toys and the rather foolish belief that pure skill conquers all.

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01-06-2014, 08:17 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
How many guys in the league can do what Lucic does?
Hardly makes him a "generational talent". See Crosby, Sidney. See Ovechkin, Alex. See Eric friggin' Lindros. Those are "generational" talents. Saying that Lucic is a generational talent would be like saying that Clark Gillies was a generational talent. Lucic is unique in today's NHL. But is he really better than Billy Guerrin was?

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01-06-2014, 08:19 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by NYR2047 View Post
And if all you want is toughness call up Mcilrath, Bickel, Haley, and Asham
A case can actually be made for Haley to be playing on this team's 4th line.

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01-06-2014, 08:49 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
A case can actually be made for Haley to be playing on this team's 4th line.
I am surprised Haley has not been given more of a shot. Good skater, doesn't have awful hands, great fighter for his size.

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01-06-2014, 09:04 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I am surprised Haley has not been given more of a shot. Good skater, doesn't have awful hands, great fighter for his size.
On this team's 4th line, there is no reason no to have them. The team needs what he brings.

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01-06-2014, 09:30 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
On this team's 4th line, there is no reason no to have them. The team needs what he brings.
He has been hurt for most of this season so far but even last year...

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01-06-2014, 09:31 AM
  #438
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Yeah I don't understand acquiring Carcillo instead of calling up Haley, but I think neither would be preferable.

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01-06-2014, 09:36 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yeah I don't understand acquiring Carcillo instead of calling up Haley, but I think neither would be preferable.
I know Haley has been hurt most of this season but still...

Doesn't that scream knee-jerk reaction? Why can other teams deal with injuries from withibn to anyone on their roster but if Dorsett goes down, the Rangers need to trade for someone?

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01-06-2014, 09:40 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Doesn't that scream knee-jerk reaction?
Off course it is. But it is not just the Dorsett injury. I am guessing that a good look at seeing the team he assembled get pushed around by the Pens got the trade done.

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01-06-2014, 09:46 AM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR2047 View Post
But... No Cup

The LA Kings were 18th in fights and won the cup

And last year the Blackhawks were 25th in fights and in 2010 when they won they were 24th

Toronto was first in fights last year and out in the first round
yes they were and you know what? Both them teams were physically tougher then the rangers are..they played with more of a edge and hit everything that moved.

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01-06-2014, 10:11 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
yes they were and you know what? Both them teams were physically tougher then the rangers are..they played with more of a edge and hit everything that moved.
They both also, incidentally, had a lot of talent.

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01-06-2014, 10:57 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by NYR2047 View Post
But... No Cup

The LA Kings were 18th in fights and won the cup

And last year the Blackhawks were 25th in fights and in 2010 when they won they were 24th

Toronto was first in fights last year and out in the first round
Not sure why people get hung up on the fighting - while I think it's a part of the game, toughness isn't just fighting.(not picking on you! ) It's about delivering and finishing hard checks as well.

You can look at LA, who were 18th in fights the year they won the cup - but go back and look at how they played. Pretty much nobody on the opposition got a free pass, if you were rushing the puck someone is getting a piece of you...their hard forechecking was a thing of beauty to watch.

I think we sorely miss those components with Dubi and Prust gone. (along with a couple others)

As it stands right now, I'm hoping Carcillo goes back to the way he was in Phoenix, I liked his game back then. So I'll give him a clean slate, as hard as it is for me to say that.

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01-06-2014, 11:44 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
A case can actually be made for Haley to be playing on this team's 4th line.
See I never understood why he wasn't put on the PK at the NHL level. Obviously he hasn't seen any time this season, but last year as well. But last year it wasn't a need on the pk, while this year, a 4th liner has to be able to pk under AV.

This leads me to believe that Carcillo will not see much ice time. Haley would sell out every time, blocking shots on the PK for sure. Maybe the concern is that he gets mesmerized by a good PPQB or takes a bad penalty.

I think he is a guy that adds an element of fearless that a Callahan and Girardi do, that this team needs, and a portion of the fan base absolutely abhors from the sounds of it on this board.

I don't know if beta-males tend to be more skillful, but from the make up of this roster, that certainly seems to be the case.

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01-06-2014, 11:48 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
yes they were and you know what? Both them teams were physically tougher then the rangers are..they played with more of a edge and hit everything that moved.
You know a good possibility of them being 18th in fights is because that maybe lots of teams didn't want to fight their guys. That roster has it's share of toughness, but more importantly they are filled with guys that are "capable" and "willing".

Hell Drew Doughty isn't opposed to the submarine hit if things get a little nasty. That LA-STL series last year was some of the best hockey I've seen.

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01-13-2014, 08:51 AM
  #446
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While everyone is on a sugar high from all the winning in the last 10 games the fact remains we are softer than soft..Having Carcillo out there against philly with a minute to go is a bad move by AV even tho Carcillo didn't do anything wrong he's such a hated player teams will go after him when the game is out of hand...Having him out at the end of the game will get our other soft players killed as they will have to jump in when all hell breaks loose...Either get more muscle AV or leave carbomb on the bench for the final 60 seconds

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01-13-2014, 08:55 AM
  #447
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Having him out at the end of the game will get our other soft players killed as they will have to jump in when all hell breaks loose...
So Carcillo all by himself determines if our other players get "jumped"?

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01-13-2014, 10:18 AM
  #448
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A never ending debate regarding this team.

Stripping all of it away, yeah the Rangers could use a presence that would discourage or punish all the bumping and slamming on Hank.

But it's just not there and depending on McI's knee might not be.

Some teams have a more dedicated focus on having tougher players. I'm not talking about the clowns from Philly. It's a culture and an obsession with the town and the org. there.

The Rangers have really never had a focus on making physically punishing players part of their depth chart. I'd like it to be different, but it is what it is.

We've been very lucky with Hank. Goalies as good as him don't walk into the picture often.You would think protecting him better would be a much bigger priority.


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01-13-2014, 10:24 AM
  #449
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.....and Dominick Moore is about as dependable a 4th line center as you could have. No too many people I'd want there besides him. Great move picking him up.

Again you would love at least one punishing presence on his wing, but that line has to have players that can play. It's hard to find them and the Rangers do not have that dedicated focus.

The move to get Carcillo is more the Rangers style....and it's not working out to badly so far.

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01-13-2014, 10:31 AM
  #450
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The Rangers have really never had a focus on making physically punishing players part of their depth chart. I'd like it to be different, but it is what it is.
Whatever they have focused on has not really worked for them.
Quote:
.....and Dominick Moore is about as dependable a 4th line center as you could have. No too many people I'd want there besides him. Great move picking him up.
Fine but there is no need for him and Boyle to be in the line up if Carcillo can keep up his play when Dorsett comes back. Having Dorsett and the Carcillo that we have seen is will serve this team in a better way than having both Moore and Boyle.

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