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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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Old
01-06-2014, 09:46 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My problem is how I get the impression that the same type of vague platitudes is whats going on inside Ranger management right now. "If we play poorly over the next month, we'll examine some trades"

What the hell does that mean? Management should be meeting every day to define what playing well vs. what not playing well means, what players they will be targeting in the event of a trade, etc.

Foresight.

Sather uses the "our goal is to win the Stanley Cup" crap as cover to fly by the seat of his pants.
That's the impression you get? Both DZ and Girardi have been shopped around the league. They have had scouts at many, many games. As far as we know, Sather & co are at work every day. Either they aren't talking to each other at all or they are meeting every day and doing exactly what you say they should be.

The trying to give the team time to put together a good string is simply part of running any hockey team, not an indication of having the blinders on.

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01-06-2014, 09:49 AM
  #102
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Also, maybe I'm in the minority, but I think signing Callahan would be a HUGE mistake. He's been hurt, sure, but even when he's on the ice, what exactly is he doing? It's time to part ways, and get a nice return. Again, we have to be SMART, not nostalgic. We can't sign people based on what they've done, like MLB does, we have to sign them based on what we think they will do in the future. I think both Cally and Girardi will have clear deterioration in both their games, and we're starting to see it, already.

Time to sell both.

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01-06-2014, 09:50 AM
  #103
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If Girardi will take a low contract I would consider keeping him. He is not mister perfect but he is a solid 1st pair dman. I would trade him though if we could get a top 4 D-man in return plus other goods. We just can't move him without somewhat replacing his spot because he is very important to our D regardless of what some people on here think.

Under no circumstance I think we should keep Cally, even if he takes a lesser deal. We need to move him asap if we can get a few good pieces for him. Hopefully he will have a good olympics to up his value.

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01-06-2014, 09:51 AM
  #104
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I'm not opposed to change I just would want to make sure we get good to great value and not let either walk for nothing.

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01-06-2014, 09:53 AM
  #105
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The Rangers are always a few points out of something. Its never first in the conference or in the league. That's the problem. Fighting for 8th in the previous system and now fighting with equally flaws teams for the last spot in the division. They are a point behind the Hurricanes even in games played and are two points up on Columbus. When does this ever stop?

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01-06-2014, 09:54 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My problem is how I get the impression that the same type of vague platitudes is whats going on inside Ranger management right now. "If we play poorly over the next month, we'll examine some trades"

What the hell does that mean? Management should be meeting every day to define what playing well vs. what not playing well means, what players they will be targeting in the event of a trade, etc.

Foresight.

Sather uses the "our goal is to win the Stanley Cup" crap as cover to fly by the seat of his pants.
Also, at this point, Sather should have seen enough of Girardi and Callahan over their careers to make an assessment of what their value is. Girardi and Callahan have been Rangers since 2007 so how they perform until the trade deadline shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not they have a future here.

Girardi could end up getting a contract similar to Duncan Keith even though he isn't nearly as good as of player offensively. Sather should be asking himself "do I really want to give out a hefty contract to a player of this caliber, or should we trade him for assets?" rather than "do you think we can make a playoff run?"

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01-06-2014, 09:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The discussion of trading Girardi always seems to boil down to two points being made by the "keep them" crowd:

1) They make us a better team.
2) They'll only net us mediocre prospects in return.

To the first point: Will they? Because right now they're both on the roster and we're a perennially mediocre hockey club. Basically all you can definitively say is that they'll put us right where we are now: A .500, playoff bubble team.

Now, you can argue that we can build around them and have a better jumping off point than if they're moved for other players, but until you know who those players are, you can't argue that conclusively either. You never know what a team will play for a guy like Girardi or Callahan. When the post-season runs around, the top items on the shopping list of every team are always the same; They want grit, defense, and scoring. Both of these players cover at least two of those items. We could very well fetch a ransom for each, and while there are certainly risks involved with prospects, you're never going to land that "Wow!" prospect if you refuse to trade for him when you had the chance.

I have a very, very hard time believing that this team couldn't move Callahan, Girardi and Del Zotto and not net at least two very important pieces for this team. Amateur scouting is a strength of this organization. It's time to start letting them lay the ground work for a new team.
Callahan and MDZ should be traded. MDZ because he sucks and Callahan because of his injury problems. Girardi on the other hand cant be replaced. If we wanna win the cup, we need a solid stay at home D. Girardi is that type of player. He, Strålman and McD are alot better than MDZ, Moore, Falk and Allen. I wouldnt trade players that play well. I would much rather trade players that dosent fit or are injured all the time. How about Staal and MDZ for some prospects, picks etc. Why Girardi? Offer him a New and better contract asap.

Girardi is not the problem. Hank, Callahan, Nash, Richards and Staal are a much bigger concern. Callahan and Staal because of injuries, while Nash and Richards are just lazy. Hank is lost....

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01-06-2014, 09:56 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers are always a few points out of something. Its never first in the conference or in the league. That's the problem. Fighting for 8th in the previous system and now fighting with equally flaws teams for the last spot in the division. They are a point behind the Hurricanes even in games played and are two points up on Columbus. When does this ever stop?
It won't. Sather wants to "go for it" every year. It's a recipe for mediocrity.

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01-06-2014, 09:56 AM
  #109
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Hit the reset button.

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01-06-2014, 09:57 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Also, maybe I'm in the minority, but I think signing Callahan would be a HUGE mistake. He's been hurt, sure, but even when he's on the ice, what exactly is he doing? It's time to part ways, and get a nice return. Again, we have to be SMART, not nostalgic. We can't sign people based on what they've done, like MLB does, we have to sign them based on what we think they will do in the future. I think both Cally and Girardi will have clear deterioration in both their games, and we're starting to see it, already.

Time to sell both.
Well Girardi Plays a ton of min. He faces the top lines of the opposing team, while youner Ds face the bottom lines. Moore and MDZ vs a top line would be suicide.

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01-06-2014, 09:58 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That's the impression you get? Both DZ and Girardi have been shopped around the league. They have had scouts at many, many games. As far as we know, Sather & co are at work every day. Either they aren't talking to each other at all or they are meeting every day and doing exactly what you say they should be.

The trying to give the team time to put together a good string is simply part of running any hockey team, not an indication of having the blinders on.
Should the team really hold out and pray this team somehow becomes a Stanley Cup contender in the next 2 months. Do we really think that is happening?

A few playoff games is worth putting yourself in a really difficult position with the free agents come the summer? It probably is the organizational thinking, but its so twisted after all this time that I can still hardly comprehend it.

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01-06-2014, 10:00 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
I'm not opposed to change I just would want to make sure we get good to great value and not let either walk for nothing.
Now take a step back and look at what is required to make sure that that doesn't happen.

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01-06-2014, 10:01 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
It won't. Sather wants to "go for it" every year. It's a recipe for mediocrity.
Well I think many peeps are to hard on Sather. The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.

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01-06-2014, 10:03 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well I thank many peeps are to hard on Sather. The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.
So then why not use this "aberration of a season" to finally get a few pieces necessary to make this team a true contender for the foreseeable future? Hank and Nash are having bad seasons by their standards.

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01-06-2014, 10:04 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well I thank many peeps are to hard on Sather.
Too hard on Sather? Why? By his own standards, he's been a complete failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.
Like Sather, you're looking at the move in a vacuum. The Nash was a good trade—until they realized that they didn't have the depth or resources in-house to replace the guys they dealt and the role's they played.

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01-06-2014, 10:04 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well I thank many peeps are to hard on Sather. The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.
Who else should we blame for the constant regression of the team over the past 18 months?

The guy is a meddler. At the first sniff of success, he's right there trying to make that "over the top" move. He just cant help himself.

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01-06-2014, 10:05 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Callahan and MDZ should be traded. MDZ because he sucks and Callahan because of his injury problems. Girardi on the other hand cant be replaced. If we wanna win the cup, we need a solid stay at home D. Girardi is that type of player. He, Strålman and McD are alot better than MDZ, Moore, Falk and Allen. I wouldnt trade players that play well. I would much rather trade players that dosent fit or are injured all the time. How about Staal and MDZ for some prospects, picks etc. Why Girardi? Offer him a New and better contract asap.

Girardi is not the problem. Hank, Callahan, Nash, Richards and Staal are a much bigger concern. Callahan and Staal because of injuries, while Nash and Richards are just lazy. Hank is lost....
I just wrote something similar about Girardi, I agree with you 100%.

I'm surprised more people are not talking about moving Staal. I'd say most of the time Girardi is still 90% of prime Girardi. Criticize him all you want but he is still a solid #1 pairing. Is Stall even 50% of his prime a few years ago? We really should stop talking about Girardi and start talking Staal before he takes off to Carolina on his own.

MDZ + Staal can bring back some good players imo. That can be a complete second pairing line for many teams, maybe even first pairing for some bad ones.

Callahan should 100% be moved asap if we can get something good. Under no circumstances should he be resigned unless its for cheap and we move him anyway not long after.

Idk about Nash. He was playing at a PPG pace before his concussion. Maybe the guy is having issues. I do feel he is pretty one dimensional but considering he has a ntc there is not much we can do about him but be positive. I think he can still start producing if the team as a whole lights up. Id wait for the season to finish before we start hating Nash.

No comments on Hank from me. Not sure what to say. Maybe time will fix things.

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01-06-2014, 10:07 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Should the team really hold out and pray this team somehow becomes a Stanley Cup contender in the next 2 months. Do we really think that is happening?

A few playoff games is worth putting yourself in a really difficult position with the free agents come the summer? It probably is the organizational thinking, but its so twisted after all this time that I can still hardly comprehend it.
You call it "holding out and praying" but I call the reality of being a league exec. Like I said, I'm still in a situation where I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other. For the most part, the only people who don't think this team has underachieved thus far this season are Rangers fans. Most of the rest of the league and media is as uncertain about what the Rangers are as I am. I'm not trying to say that we should all listen to the pundits at all times. I'm trying to say that there is a legitimate reason to give the group another month, even if you and some other fans disagree with it. Just because you disagree with it and want the team to do something different doesn't mean the team is being mismanaged.

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01-06-2014, 10:07 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well I think many peeps are to hard on Sather. The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.
Too hard on Sather? hahaha is that even possible?

Nash puts up points, sure, but.....I'm starting to question whether or not he's got what it takes to be a "winner". Last year's playoffs was pretty telling, to me. Completely disappeared. Then this year he's been awful.

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01-06-2014, 10:07 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well I think many peeps are too hard on Sather. The Nash trade was at the time a good trade. Dnt forget that Nash was a 30+ goal pr year type of player. A "Lock" on Canadas national team. This is the first season Nash has started sucking. You cant blame Sather for that.
We can never be too hard on Sather. The guy has proven to be a complete moron in many, many ways. He needs to retire and give everyone something to cheer about.

As far as Nash goes I just posted that he should be given more time.

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01-06-2014, 10:09 AM
  #121
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So then why not use this "aberration of a season" to finally get a few pieces necessary to make this team a true contender for the foreseeable future? Hank and Nash are having bad seasons by their standards.
Trading Your top defensive D is not a good idea. We need more Depth on D and thats why im against trading Girardi. We got 3 Ds that can play at NHL Level. Staal hasnt been himself. MDZ, Moore and Falk are not good enough. They can play a few good shifts and then screw up. Leaving opposing players open in the slot. Those type of mistakes are unforgivable.

I would trade MDZ, Callahan and Moore for some prospects and picks. Im just against trading Girardi, Strålman or McD. Those Three are just to valuable

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01-06-2014, 10:13 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
You call it "holding out and praying" but I call the reality of being a league exec. Like I said, I'm still in a situation where I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other. For the most part, the only people who don't think this team has underachieved thus far this season are Rangers fans. Most of the rest of the league and media is as uncertain about what the Rangers are as I am. I'm not trying to say that we should all listen to the pundits at all times. I'm trying to say that there is a legitimate reason to give the group another month, even if you and some other fans disagree with it. Just because you disagree with it and want the team to do something different doesn't mean the team is being mismanaged.
Define success for me.

Define the type of success that makes it OK to be caught between a rock and a hard place with these UFA's come July 1?

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01-06-2014, 10:13 AM
  #123
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If Girardi and Callahan can net this team trades like Hossa and Kovalchuk's, I make the trade. Adding two roster players right now that can improve and a first? The actual pieces they got are not what we can get. It was poor management at the time. Need to choose players that fit the system we want to run.

Question is, if Sather is stepping down, does Gorton want Girardi and Callahan? If he wants to shape the roster his way for next season, is it his choice? I believe they should resign Girardi and look to trade Callahan, but it isn't that easy to trade your captian. Look at Iginla and he is a much more accomplished player, but Calgary had a hard time stepping away from him. He was older too. Team was not as good.

Girardi holds more value imo. Defense can last longer in the NHL than forwards. Locking up a defender for a longer term generally is better than a forward. They can reinvent themselves easier depending on the player. A smallish forward in Callahan who needs to play physical is hard to reinvent his style to be effective. Big guys could become bruisers. He has less room to change style.

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01-06-2014, 10:13 AM
  #124
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For those who want to keep one/both:

The problem is that even if you think they're valuable contributors to a cup-winning team now, they won't be by the time this team is ready to compete for a cup.

Ironically, by keeping them, you extend the mediocrity that much longer and make it that much more certain that they'll be done by the time you are ready to compete if you are somehow able to find the other pieces over time with lucky 5th round picks and shrewd (ha!) free agent signings.

Whereas you are likely ready to compete faster if you move them, because a) you'll get better assets from your own picks, b) you'll have more cap space for FAs and c) the guys you get in return for them will hopefully be a big part of the rebuild/retool.

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01-06-2014, 10:14 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
We can never be too hard on Sather. The guy has proven to be a complete moron in many, many ways. He needs to retire and give everyone something to cheer about.

As far as Nash goes I just posted that he should be given more time.
He has won the Cup several times as a Coach. And tanking is not an option in NY, so he couldnt do as the Penguins. Drafting Kreider was a good idea. Signing Zuke and Gabby as FA. He never gets credit when he does something right.

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