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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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Old
01-06-2014, 12:12 PM
  #151
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Its really sad that this team has gotten to the point where dealing Girardi and Callahan is the right move

but nonetheless, they should be traded
All opinions and predictions aside, I think this THE fundamental discussion of the salary cap era. What do you do with players who are your homegrown guys, are not stars, and are hitting UFA? It'll be fascinating to watch it play out one way or the other.

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01-06-2014, 12:19 PM
  #152
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Sather must first decide whether to order a case of AVO, Romeo Y Julieta or Padron and then whether to cut or punch them. Finally he will take some time chewing each to inspect it for quality. The deliberation and subsequent inspection could take some time, so look for a decision from Glen on the Girardi/Callahan issue by around November.

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01-06-2014, 12:30 PM
  #153
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Sather signed Henrik long-term. Most likely he's not looking to tank.

Girardi seems pretty irreplaceable right now. Callahan, not so much.

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01-06-2014, 12:33 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
And how did the "2-3 steps forward" work out in the Hossa and Kovalchuk deals?

I really can't wait til the "soooo how do we improve our defense??" posts start popping up.
didn't hossa walk in UFA? or are we talking about Hossa with the Sens being traded to the thrashers..because didnt the sens make the cup finals a year or 2 later? or am i misremembering?

there are plenty of dump trades like this that work out great for the team giving up the player...rangers traded Scott Gomez for Ryan McDonagh...at the time Gomez was though of at least as a 2nd line center, if not a top line.

we got their top defensive prospect after Subban, not to mention Higgins

If the Rangers could walk away with something like Emerson Etem, another one to two top end prospect, and 2 first rounders in exchange for Callahan and Girardi, I'd be all for it.

We've had Cally in our lineup and we've had him outta the lineup, it really hasnt made 1 iota of difference in our play.

Dan Girardi is a warrior, love the guy, but he's going to command a huge contract, and I just think he'd be far more use to us acquiring picks and prospects back than to have him in the lineup for the next 5 years, which will be lean years as his body begins to break down from the kind of hockey he plays.

5 grade a prospects could really turn this team around in 2 years.

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01-06-2014, 12:37 PM
  #155
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If you can get two 1st rounders and 2-3 prospects, you take it and run. We need to get younger and faster. Torts guys were Callahan and Girardi but AV is different. Gotta bring in some new blood, we love Callahan and Girardi but its a business and this team needs to change. AV isnt going nowhere so players have to

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01-06-2014, 12:39 PM
  #156
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And if we resign both Callahan and Girardi then i'll be disappointed. Disappointed in the management because that would mean nothing is changing. I'll be shocked if they trade one, let alone both.

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01-06-2014, 12:40 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Girardi isn't an offensive defenseman. He plays a lot of minutes is the argument for keeping him and who replaces him? How many more years will he be playing those top minutes? Do you want him playing top minutes for you? This contract will take him to 36-37 at major dollars. Good luck moving that contract. There won't be other players? The Rangers have to keep Girardi and Callahan because Lundqvist is signed. Really? The Rangers aren't winning anything with all three of those players signed long-term in their thirties. They haven't won by now. Take a step back and change the mix of the team. Callahan isn't a player like Sharp or Backes. He doesn't score like Sharp and he is as big as Backes. Kreider should keep getting get the PP minutes as the net presence. What is Callahan's role? Zuccarello is a better option as the 2nd line RW. A $6M plus third liner? Captain Callahan. Let other teams give them retirement contracts.
totally 100% agreed.

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01-06-2014, 12:44 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
And if we resign both Callahan and Girardi then i'll be disappointed. Disappointed in the management because that would mean nothing is changing. I'll be shocked if they trade one, let alone both.
The only time we've EVER been sellers, at least as far back as I can remember, was right before the 04 lockout when we had missed the playoffs for 21834723 years. Something HAD to finally give.

I don't see us selling anyone, regardless of whether or not it is the right decision or not.

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01-06-2014, 12:45 PM
  #159
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If we can get 2 "A"'s + a high pick for either Girardi or Cally, Slats should do it in a heartbeat. I really don't see other teams valuing these guys that high. Girardi had logged so many minutes and taken so much abuse that I'm not sure he can continue playing like this for the next 5 years. And we know Cally will break something every 10 games.

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01-06-2014, 12:52 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
So that means exactly what to us?

Are you really a Sather apologist? W O W

For every good thing he's done, he's done 3 bad things. That's not very good.
It means that he can see a players potensial. We drafted Kreider back in 2009 and he might be the best player from that draft. He is such a good skater, nose for the net, grit, size, speed, skills etc. But no Sather get 0 credit for drafting Kreider and believing in him. Im not saying Sather is great, but he hasnt been that bad.

Girardi will most likely be offered a New contract. Trading him would be a bad move. Sather knows this. Just have a look around the League and u will see alot of terrible Ds.

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01-06-2014, 12:58 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
didn't hossa walk in UFA? or are we talking about Hossa with the Sens being traded to the thrashers..because didnt the sens make the cup finals a year or 2 later? or am i misremembering?
Atlanta traded Hossa and Dupuis to the Pens for Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito and a 1st round pick. Hossa walked from the Pens and joined Detroit for a year.

In hindsight, it was a bad trade, but that's due in large part to Atlanta whiffing on a 1st rounder in a pretty solid 2008 draft. Esposito was considered one of the Pens stronger prospects and Armstrong was a good player for the Pens and played well for the Thrashers for a couple seasons.

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01-06-2014, 01:00 PM
  #162
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Dealing Callahan and Girardi does not have to be a step backwards for next season if we target young talent on the cusp of playing in the NHL.

I always like to think a team in the playoffs has a chance at the cup, no matter how unlikely. I see our chances at a cup this year as very unlikely with Callahan and Girardi, I see them as equally unlikely without them. I will enjoy watching this team play in the playoffs either way. If you can get a good young NHLer or close NHLer plus a top pick for them, its hard to say no to.

We knew a change in coaches would see some players become more effective and others less. Zucc, Kreider, McDonagh have become more effective. Callahan, Girardi, and Staal have become less. And then there's the age and contracts to consider.

NYR have the assets to build a brand new young core. Question is whether they have the stones to pull a big change of roster.

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01-06-2014, 01:04 PM
  #163
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From a purely hockey perspective, I think Girardi, Callahan and Boyle are all expendable. I dont think they are as good as some make them out to be.

It's a win-win-win by trading all threee:

1) Cap space
2) Assets
3) Job openings for younger players

Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, Talbot, Miller, MZA and Brassard are all up for new contract after this year or next. Staal is a UFA in 2015.

Decision time.

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Old
01-06-2014, 01:05 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
And I am saying that is what he WAS in a system that Torts had. That is NOT what you are seeing now.
AV won't be here for long. I hope the new coach's system fits Girardi better.

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01-06-2014, 01:09 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by rangersfan9 View Post
AV won't be here for long. I hope the new coach's system fits Girardi better.
I dont even think the immortal Glen Sather has enough equity to fire yet another coach so soon after the last one.

AV is here for a while. Theres plenty of worthless shake up the roster moves to occur before the scapegoat target gets put on AV.

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01-06-2014, 01:09 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by McD27 View Post
Girardi had logged so many minutes and taken so much abuse that I'm not sure he can continue playing like this for the next 5 years. And we know Cally will break something every 10 games.
Girardi has always been an "efficient" defender. He's not getting creamed against the boards or laying out huge risky hits. He's a worker. He's going to last just fine. A long contract for Girardi is not a risk.

Callahan has already shown that he's too fragile to play his game. How many games is he going to lose a year to broken fingers etc? A long contract for him is dangerous.

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01-06-2014, 01:12 PM
  #167
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I am in the boat of re-signing both. Fans have their feelings on the matter, and everyone wants to talk about how great their cupboard is on HF.

But any rebuild is a 3-4 year climb. Without those two, the Rangers are going to sink in the standings no matter what.

The problem is that by doing that you essentially become Columbus in 2009 with the core in the place right now, plus Henrik Lundqvist and McD and Step and prospects and draft picks.

Do you really want to build around a set of players? This combination isn't winning now, will it get better with the assurance of low-end minutes now and the near future?

The team finished a rebuild to tear it all down again like Florida? An economically deprived hockey market?

I don't know. Fan sentiment is one thing, and journalist's commentary is another. It will ultimately come down to the brass and what they decide.

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01-06-2014, 01:14 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I always like to think a team in the playoffs has a chance at the cup, no matter how unlikely. I see our chances at a cup this year as very unlikely with Callahan and Girardi, I see them as equally unlikely without them. I will enjoy watching this team play in the playoffs either way. If you can get a good young NHLer or close NHLer plus a top pick for them, its hard to say no to.
We will have a problem with putting a team on the ice without Girardi.

Its absolutely meaningless to not tear the team apart completely and dump everyone from McD to Kreider unless we replace Girardi with a right D that can log a lot of minutes before next season, granted that you are prepared to give up this season.

If Girardi is dealt, we will be a real mess unless we replace him. We are definitely worse without him than with him.

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01-06-2014, 01:15 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by rangersfan9 View Post
AV won't be here for long. I hope the new coach's system fits Girardi better.
This is the move that I hope takes place before blowing it all up and rebuilding. I've heard enough excuses and caveats to his team's performance. He can go be an assistant to Babcock in Det just like Renney.

Losing is unacceptable.

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01-06-2014, 01:18 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
We will have a problem with putting a team on the ice without Girardi.

Its absolutely meaningless to not tear the team apart completely and dump everyone from McD to Kreider unless we replace Girardi with a right D that can log a lot of minutes before next season, granted that you are prepared to give up this season.

If Girardi is dealt, we will be a real mess unless we replace him. We are definitely worse without him than with him.
For right now. But in year 5 of his 6-7 year contract what then? Probably the opposite.

They will be getting young players back. Make sure one is a RD prospect. McIlrath and Allen look like they will be close to ready for some NHL time next year. There are always other ways to acquire a d-man. Trade? Use the same assets they acquire to bring in a younger d-man who is close to breaking out but needs a shot?

There is more than one way to get the job done.

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01-06-2014, 01:18 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I still think Sather and company ****ing this re-tool up is a better option than being stuck with an overpaid Girardi and Callahan for the next 7 years.
This is the part I am just not sure about.

That is how little confidence I have that the organization actually cares about the on ice results, I think they are far more interested in the financial results.

According to Forbes the franchise value went from 282M in 2005, to 750M in 2012.

Revenue has gone from 118M in 2005 to 199M in 2012.

Richards buyout for example would cost 18M spread over 12 years.

On the other hand Franchise value the way Sather and company have been doing things has increased 468M over 7 years. Revenue (and you know they are only counting the least amount they are legally allowed to under the CBA) has gone up on average ~11.5M per year

Buyouts and such are a pittance compared to generating revenue by selling hope with "star" players yearly. As long as they get a couple years out of them, the return on investment is there.

I would assume no matter what they do, sell, keep, resign those player or new ones, we'll see a very similar process going forward, it's a proven financial winner in this market.

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01-06-2014, 01:20 PM
  #172
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Again, moving Girardi doesn't have to constitute a rebuild.

Say you move him to Detroit, and while I think the "two 'A' prospects" is a bit extreme, I think you could get a very good prospect and 1st round pick. Perhaps more if the Rangers ate 50% salary which could be a huge value add, or if they ate a contract in the deal. The Wings have a couple RHD prospects I've been keeping an eye on, as I think Detroit could be a good landing spot for Girardi long-term. They want to win now, have a good shot of doing so and they're half a day's drive from Girardi's home town.

Ryan Sproul is a mobile, offensive minded defender who can absolutely hammer the puck. Reminds me of Cody Franson, but he looks better than Franson did at the same age. Especially in his own end. I think he's a guy who sticks with the big club in 2015. Not that far off.

Another is Alexei Marchenko. He's a great skater who can rush the puck or make a fantastic break out pass. He's a shutdown, physical defender, but there looks like there is some offense blossoming in his game. I think he's bottom-pairing ready now, and could be a 2nd pairing guy next fall. Reminds me of Mikey Sauer with the way he plays.

Either would be a great add in addition to a 1st round pick, or if we're very lucky, a forward prospect like Tatar or Nyquist.

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01-06-2014, 01:20 PM
  #173
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The reason I keep Girardi is because I don't believe AV will be here long and when we go back to a normal zone defense, Girardi is going to be great. Even if half way through his next deal he degrades to a middle pair guy and not a 25 minute guy, he's still a very valuable asset.

Callahan I move because he suffers more injuries and will bring us a nice return because he's so highly regarded. We need some new blood and Callahan might be the only reasonable piece we can move to get something truly worthwhile.

But when we inevitably return to a defensive scheme that works for our 8M goalie and the rest of our personnel, Girardi is a player we are going to want to have.

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01-06-2014, 01:21 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
It'd be a lot easier to move Girardi if the Rangers still had Sauer. C'est la vie.
It would also be easier to move Callahan if we still had Steve Larmer, but neither Larmer nor Sauer is going to play hockey.

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01-06-2014, 01:21 PM
  #175
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Again, moving Girardi doesn't have to constitute a rebuild.

Say you move him to Detroit, and while I think the "two 'A' prospects" is a bit extreme, I think you could get a very good prospect and 1st round pick. Perhaps more if the Rangers ate 50% salary which could be a huge value add, or if they ate a contract in the deal. The Wings have a couple RHD prospects I've been keeping an eye on, as I think Detroit could be a good landing spot for Girardi long-term. They want to win now, have a good shot of doing so and they're half a day's drive from Girardi's home town.

Ryan Sproul is a mobile, offensive minded defender who can absolutely hammer the puck. Reminds me of Cody Franson, but he looks better than Franson did at the same age. Especially in his own end. I think he's a guy who sticks with the big club in 2015. Not that far off.

Another is Alexei Marchenko. He's a great skater who can rush the puck or make a fantastic break out pass. He's a shutdown, physical defender, but there looks like there is some offense blossoming in his game. I think he's bottom-pairing ready now, and could be a 2nd pairing guy next fall. Reminds me of Mikey Sauer with the way he plays.

Either would be a great add in addition to a 1st round pick, or if we're very lucky, a forward prospect like Tatar or Nyquist.
Exactly.

What about Connolly + Kucherov from TB. Both players look to be close to NHL ready. Again, you bring in players who can fill holes moving forward. If you have to band-aid a spot for a year while a guy develops, so be it.

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