HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2014, 04:40 PM
  #201
Riverdale
Registered User
 
Riverdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 5,635
vCash: 500
Pick an identity/culture.

Trade the players who do not fit and keep the ones who do. You can't be afraid to trade players. I'd be ok keeping Girardi but I'd like to see one of Cally or Girardi gone. We can get some really good pieces in return. Re-tooling instead of tanking/rebuilding. We are past the point where that is possible.

Riverdale is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:43 PM
  #202
Gardner McKay
Moderator
#4parsley
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,964
vCash: 1647
Phx is apparently interested. Rundblad + 1st?

__________________
"If someone offers you an amazing opportunity and you're not sure you can do it, say yes - then learn how to do it later" - Richard Branson
Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:45 PM
  #203
Gardner McKay
Moderator
#4parsley
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,964
vCash: 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Why exactly, as a fan, am I supposed to be in such love with Girardi and Callahan that it trumps a pragmatic business decision?
perfectly said.

Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:50 PM
  #204
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
Pick an identity/culture.

Trade the players who do not fit and keep the ones who do.
That was done a few years ago. Then Sather decided to rip apart the core and change the dynamic.

True Blue is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:53 PM
  #205
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Callahan is our capain and I appreciate everything he has done, but we need to consider whether or not he is worth 6 years at 6 million.

Lets look at our right wings. We have Nash, Zuccarello, Callahan. Only 2 of those guys can play in the top 6.

Evaluation: Nash is here to stay, no matter how poorly he plays. NYR need him to be a 30+ goal guy. Zuccarello is our present leading scorer, on the uprise and is still in for an RFA contract that should see him paid at an acceptable level. Callahan is a great special teams player, but will be 30 next season and has a long history of injuries.

Decision- Loosing Callahan saves us 5-6.5 million on the cap for a player who probably wouldn't be in the top 6 with out current assortment. Maybe we deal Nash and keep Cally, but I'm not sure thats a preferable option, nor is moving one of them to the left wing.

Center- Richards is playing at about the best level he can at this stage in his career. Losing him will hurt a bit but, like with the right wings, we have two centers in Stepan and Brassard that are there to fill the top 6.

Evaluation- Each center has their own strengths and weaknesses. But if you look at the stat sheet their offensive production is very similar this year. Richards has a boost because of PP time, but Brassard has been linking nicely with Zucc on the PP.

Decision- Stepan as a first line center takes care of the defensive side of the game. Brassard at second line requires less defense, and he has the skill for it. Miller and Lindberg (Or Miller and rent-a-forth can fill in the bottom 6. Goodbye Richards.

Left Wing- Kreider's energence has shored up this position.

Evaluation- Hagelin is a 2nd-third line tweener, but playing him on the 2nd is the least of our concerns. I wouldn't count on Pouliot playing like this consistently, but if he does he'll be back. The Rangers need Kreider to keep playing like this, and there is no indication that he can't. Left wing is a weaker position in the NHL, so having your gunners there is good allocation.

Decision- NYR could look to add a scoring left wing to push Hagelin to the third line. Matt Moulson, Cammalleri, Greg Carey are options.

Defense- Everyone's most concerned position. Until we got Stralman it was pretty much Girardi and no one at right defense.

Evaluation- I think Girardi has been back to average this year. He had a few great seasons. He could get us a great return (Oilers, anybody?) in a deal. The question becomes who fills his spot. I think Del Zotto could be moved for a similar right sided defenseman, but a right sided Del Zotto isn't as good or as steady as Girardi.

Decision- If we deal Girardi, we can sign a very solid defensive defenseman on the right side who is less of a household name. Matt Greene can play the right side.

Of all of this, if Girardi agrees to reasonable terms, we should keep him. Callahan has become almost redundant and should be considered for a trade to Buffalo, possibly for Moulson and a good prospect/pick.
A pretty good analysis at least until you came to Girardi going to the Oilers. The Oilers are not going to trade any of their studs to the Rangers for Girardi unless they're guaranteed that Girardi is going to be around for a while. If the Rangers don't sign Girardi and trade him instead it will be almost a lock he'll be going to a team that thinks they're a Stanley Cup contender. There is no other reason for trading for a rental of his quality. I would be shocked if the Rangers sent him to Edmonton that he'd sign with that team. He has so many better options and personally I could see both him and Callahan putting off negotiations with the Rangers just so as to land with a team that has a real shot at a championship this year. Going into next year--Boston, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Chicago, Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose, Vancouver or home to Toronto--or back to the Rangers--IMO one of those teams is where Girardi lands and quite possibly Callahan as well.

eco's bones is online now  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:54 PM
  #206
Riverdale
Registered User
 
Riverdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 5,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
That was done a few years ago. Then Sather decided to rip apart the core and change the dynamic.
Which is why Sather is a terrible GM

The reason I am jealous of Boston is they have an identity and they have stuck with it. Wish our GM did the same. Every few years we try to be a different team, and the result is mediocrity.

Riverdale is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 04:57 PM
  #207
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
Which is why Sather is a terrible GM

The reason I am jealous of Boston is they have an identity and they have stuck with it. Which our GM did the same. Every few years we try to be a different team, and the result is mediocrity.
It helps that boston has had success with that identity. If we could find consistent success, then what need would there be for changing the team identity?

GAGLine is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:01 PM
  #208
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Callahan is our capain and I appreciate everything he has done, but we need to consider whether or not he is worth 6 years at 6 million.

Lets look at our right wings. We have Nash, Zuccarello, Callahan. Only 2 of those guys can play in the top 6.

Evaluation: Nash is here to stay, no matter how poorly he plays. NYR need him to be a 30+ goal guy. Zuccarello is our present leading scorer, on the uprise and is still in for an RFA contract that should see him paid at an acceptable level. Callahan is a great special teams player, but will be 30 next season and has a long history of injuries.

Decision- Loosing Callahan saves us 5-6.5 million on the cap for a player who probably wouldn't be in the top 6 with out current assortment. Maybe we deal Nash and keep Cally, but I'm not sure thats a preferable option, nor is moving one of them to the left wing.

Center- Richards is playing at about the best level he can at this stage in his career. Losing him will hurt a bit but, like with the right wings, we have two centers in Stepan and Brassard that are there to fill the top 6.

Evaluation- Each center has their own strengths and weaknesses. But if you look at the stat sheet their offensive production is very similar this year. Richards has a boost because of PP time, but Brassard has been linking nicely with Zucc on the PP.

Decision- Stepan as a first line center takes care of the defensive side of the game. Brassard at second line requires less defense, and he has the skill for it. Miller and Lindberg (Or Miller and rent-a-forth can fill in the bottom 6. Goodbye Richards.

Left Wing- Kreider's energence has shored up this position.

Evaluation- Hagelin is a 2nd-third line tweener, but playing him on the 2nd is the least of our concerns. I wouldn't count on Pouliot playing like this consistently, but if he does he'll be back. The Rangers need Kreider to keep playing like this, and there is no indication that he can't. Left wing is a weaker position in the NHL, so having your gunners there is good allocation.

Decision- NYR could look to add a scoring left wing to push Hagelin to the third line. Matt Moulson, Cammalleri, Greg Carey are options.

Defense- Everyone's most concerned position. Until we got Stralman it was pretty much Girardi and no one at right defense.

Evaluation- I think Girardi has been back to average this year. He had a few great seasons. He could get us a great return (Oilers, anybody?) in a deal. The question becomes who fills his spot. I think Del Zotto could be moved for a similar right sided defenseman, but a right sided Del Zotto isn't as good or as steady as Girardi.

Decision- If we deal Girardi, we can sign a very solid defensive defenseman on the right side who is less of a household name. Matt Greene can play the right side.

Of all of this, if Girardi agrees to reasonable terms, we should keep him. Callahan has become almost redundant and should be considered for a trade to Buffalo, possibly for Moulson and a good prospect/pick.
A pretty good analysis at least until you came to Girardi going to the Oilers. The Oilers are not going to trade any of their studs to the Rangers for Girardi unless they're guaranteed that Girardi is going to be around for a while. If the Rangers don't sign Girardi and trade him instead it will be almost a lock he'll be going to a team that thinks they're a Stanley Cup contender. There is no other reason for trading for a rental of his quality. I would be shocked if the Rangers sent him to Edmonton that he'd sign with that team. He has so many better options and personally I could see both him and Callahan putting off negotiations with the Rangers just so as to land with a team that has a real shot at a championship this year. Going into next year--Boston, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Chicago, Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose, Vancouver or home to Toronto--or back to the Rangers--IMO one of those teams is where Girardi lands and quite possibly Callahan as well.

eco's bones is online now  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:01 PM
  #209
Riverdale
Registered User
 
Riverdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 5,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
It helps that boston has had success with that identity. If we could find consistent success, then what need would there be for changing the team identity?
There wouldn't be. With Torts (in 2012) it seemed to me we had one and we were trending up but it changed bringing in Nash and the other Blue Jackets. Now what are we

Riverdale is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:02 PM
  #210
Mats Zuccarelli
NY Hockey Rangers
 
Mats Zuccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manhattan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Phx is apparently interested. Rundblad + 1st?
I want Gormley or Domi coming back

Mats Zuccarelli is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:03 PM
  #211
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,598
vCash: 500
I would venture to say that unless you have a truly elite defensive defenseman (like McD), that above average defensive defensemen are not all too uncommon and overpaying for one is a bad idea... As much as I like Girardi.

WhipNash27 is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:15 PM
  #212
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,903
vCash: 500
Anaheim and San Jose are scouting the game tonight. Its always these two guys for these teams.

David Bassegio for Anaheim. JFJ for SJ.

https://twitter.com/DenisGorman/stat...956608/photo/1

The Rangers saw both of those teams this weekend.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:20 PM
  #213
CharlieCharleschuk
Registered User
 
CharlieCharleschuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by profchaos2001 View Post
Its perplexing how many people take this view. When Pyatt got picked up off waivers, the main argument people had was "well now hes going to score hat tricks against us with the Penguins, we should've kept him!". Well that didnt happen.

By his logic we'd have a top line of Gaborik, Dupuis and Pyatt. With 2 Kevin Weekeses in goal.
I had no such argument about Pyatt, et. al.

My logic is if it's working don't break it. Your proposed lineup (amazed you didn't have an aneurysm coming up with that "top line") is a collection of guys who didn't work and didn't fit. Hence not working. Hence chuck 'em.

CharlieCharleschuk is online now  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:36 PM
  #214
CharlieCharleschuk
Registered User
 
CharlieCharleschuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Does that mean we want Kyle Quincey too? They gave up a first for him, but last I checked, he's trash.

Man, a few great draft picks and suddenly Detroit can do no wrong.
Really? Four Stanley Cups including never missing the playoffs - since we won in 1994 - is "a few great draft picks"? That's really minimizing it, to put it lightly.

They're well run; obviously no one reaches a certain perfection that is aspired to, but it's tough to fault their record on personnel over time. I don't know jack about Quincey but Girardi would be the kind of guy that such a successful franchise would be proud to have, especially in the playoffs.

Girardi's good, strong and durable. Not many players can reach that simple standard.

CharlieCharleschuk is online now  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:39 PM
  #215
Gardner McKay
Moderator
#4parsley
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,964
vCash: 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
I want Gormley or Domi coming back
Rundblad is Right handed. Is Gormley? How does Domi replace the hole in defense?

Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:43 PM
  #216
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,583
vCash: 500
Connor Murphy would be a good get from Phoenix, IMO.

Ditto Gormley.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 05:59 PM
  #217
Mikos87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,124
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Connor Murphy would be a good get from Phoenix, IMO.

Ditto Gormley.
Yes. Rundblad's best case imo is more Sandis Ozolinsh with less offense than anything else.


Connor Murphy is injury prone, but I have a very high opinion of him. 6'3", long reach, plays like a in the Trouba, Seth Jones in the offensive zone as that RHD. Dad was a very smart defenseman. He is too. High hockey IQ player.

Physically he is under weight, and no where near as sturdy or strong as a Jones or Trouba obviously, but they had the same schooling through the USNDP as two way RHD, and it shows in their game.

Gormley imo becomes a very solid mistake free defensman ala a Carl Gunnarson or our very own Anton Stralman.

PHX does a great job developing defensemen. OEK. Yandle. Stone. Schlemko. Sort of like the Rangers there for a little bit.

Ekman-Larsson is McDonaugh West for those that don't see him.

Mikos87 is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:03 PM
  #218
SixGoalieSystem
HFBoards Sponsor
 
SixGoalieSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 2,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Phx is apparently interested. Rundblad + 1st?
Runblad would get so much hate on this board, it would make Brian Boyle look popular.

SixGoalieSystem is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:22 PM
  #219
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,184
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
I hope we resign G and trade Cally.

Radek27 is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:24 PM
  #220
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 18,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I hope we resign G and trade Cally.
If I had to pick a keep one, trade one scenario, it would be this.

Girardi is worth more at the deadline however.

__________________

rip
Ail is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:32 PM
  #221
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Rangers trade Dan Girardi Brian Boyle to Coyotes
Coyotes trade Henrik Samuelsson, Brandon Gormley, Chris Brown to Rangers...



Rangers get some young prospects with some size and grit in their game. they also get back a d-man with potential..

Punxrocknyc19* is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:40 PM
  #222
wafflepadsave
Registered User
 
wafflepadsave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm willing to wait.

I'm willing to build around the following guys:

Lundqvist Talbot (GOOD back up goalies are essential), McDonagh. Kreider, Miller, Hagelin and Stepan.

What I am not interested in doing is keeping the same guys that have been here for the last 5-6 years all the while the team has been better then mediocre just once during that time frame and that was watching every break that could go their way, go theri way only to be exposed as the offensively paper thin team they were.

The team is not fast, the team is not very skilled, the team is soft with a capital SOFT, they lack intensity and the overall team IQ is disturbingly low.

Fact is that while I have Stepan in my core, I would even entertain moving him. But as it is, he's a solid 2nd line center that can play well defensively.

There's alot about this Rangers team that I actually dispise.

So yeah, I would be willing to wait 3-4 years.

Absolutely.
Definitely this

wafflepadsave is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:46 PM
  #223
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,517
vCash: 500
Ok, so let's say we get an offer of Callahan for two prospects on par with Fast and Lindberg plus a second rounder. I say we do it. Then we get an offer of two prospects similar to McIlrath and Kristo, plus a late #1. I would also do it.

Beacon is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:49 PM
  #224
Mikos87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,124
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Why exactly, as a fan, am I supposed to be in such love with Girardi and Callahan that it trumps a pragmatic business decision?
Because it doesn't. If be pragmatism need be applied, then it should be considered that this sport has entry level restrictions on contracts. If you take a look at the top teams in the league (majority of which are capped out, and under ltir btw), you will notice that many have 3-4 ELCs at any given time.

That is a the by product of good scouting, drafting and development. Much like how Callahan and G were. Any team will have to have a few roster spots at low value contracts. If you structure the cap with that in mind, and retain the talent you develop, a la SJ and a Boston. You get sustainable competitive teams.

Look at how the dollars are dispersed with those teams and some numbers will pop out at you, no question. This is what it takes. It's not my money that's getting spent, so I have no emotional attachment to it. What I do have an attachment to is a winning hockey team.

I am not the sort of fan that will sit through years of losing. Some of you will and that is just fine, that may make you more hardcore, and me more mainstream, but hey the garden will still get its dollars anyway from the die hards anyway. Just no where near as much from mainstream, and that trend will continue with every passing season.

Mikos87 is offline  
Old
01-06-2014, 06:50 PM
  #225
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,184
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Ok, so let's say we get an offer of Callahan for two prospects on par with Fast and Lindberg plus a second rounder. I say we do it. Then we get an offer of two prospects similar to McIlrath and Kristo, plus a late #1. I would also do it.
I would want better prospects than Fast and Lindberg......they are B-level prospects. If we deal the captain we better get a major asset to build around coming back.

Radek27 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.