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Coots: Sean Couturier

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Old
01-06-2014, 09:48 AM
  #826
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Not saying Laughton will be a better offensive player than Couts, but he has the one major asset that Couts does not have... He is a good skater. It's all about speed now in the NHL and we can see Couts struggle sometimes with the game because of his speed. His head is outstanding, but he doesn't generate enough right now because of his acceleration. He has an alright top speed when he gets going, it's just getting there. Good thing is he is training every off season and you can clearly see his progression since he was a rookie. His skating is getting better.

Laughton is a heart and soul guy who will give you everything he has on every shift and he makes it known. Not saying Couts doesn't but Laughton is touted as that type of player. He is producing offensively better now since he is the main fixture in their offense. Not saying Laughton is going to be a 70 point player or higher, but I can see him having a year like that and being a 55-65 type 2nd line player. The kid has a great work ethic and is not offensively deficient. Hopefully he plays on the third line next year with Couts and Read. He will give that line a great forechecker.


Also I agree with the above by PSU, Beef and I have repeatedly said when he starts to protect the puck down low with his body, the ice will open up for other players. When he was on that point streak earlier, he was doing that just about every shift.

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01-06-2014, 11:48 AM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Boy do I love when people think Laughton will be a better offensive player than Couturier. Here are their numbers leading up to, and in their draft year:

Laughton: 76 points in 127 games (.60PPG)
Couturier: 223 points in 184 games (1.21PPG)

Couturier's offense was over twice as prolific when you compare their similar time in juniors.
Its official. Couts had more numbers in the Q. He is better.

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01-06-2014, 11:52 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Its official. Couts had more numbers in the Q. He is better.
Seeing as that's all we have to base it on... there is certainly more empirical evidence to suggest Couturier being a better offensive player.

What are you basing it on? The eye test?

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01-06-2014, 11:59 AM
  #829
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People freaking out need to settle the **** down. *******... he's on a cold streak right now. Brayden Schenn went 16 games without scoring a goal (I think) and now he's doing great. Couturier will pick it back up soon.

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01-06-2014, 12:00 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Hates Couturier's offensive game. Thinks Laughton will outscore him in the NHL.

Lirl.

Laughton hasn't proven a damn thing to suggest he'll ever be more than a third line center. Couturier is already a number two center when you consider his overall game.

This is especially funny considering the sentence right above it.

Couts has done NOTHING to prove he is more than a 3rd line center either.


When Couts scores: his thread gets bumped, he's the next great thing, he is a top 5 two way player in the game, he gets compared to HOFers

When he does nothing offensively (150 of the 165 games he has played): he is young, he has potential, he has hard match ups, he has bad linemates, stop rushing him.

Sounds exactly like HFBoards to me

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01-06-2014, 12:09 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Seeing as that's all we have to base it on... there is certainly more empirical evidence to suggest Couturier being a better offensive player.

What are you basing it on? The eye test?
Yes.

I said i think Laughton could be the number 2 center on this team in 3-4 years.

Does that mean he has more offensive talent? No. Did I say he did? No.

But given Couturiers role as a checking line guy, and his consistent lack of offensive production so far in his career, I don't think it is too unreasonable to see Couts locked in the 3rd line role, and someone passing him. With his skating and offensive ability, I see Laughton as a candidate to do that....

that being said Schenn is still a candidate too. He was supposed to be the guy and it hasn't quite panned out yet. Maybe he will break through and lock that spot down. Who Knows. Not saying it is a guarantee. Just making a prediction.

I don't see Laughton as a 4th line center -- and given the choice between the two, I would take Couts as the checking line center -- so will the coaches -- so Laughton has a chance to become a number two, be a 4th line guy, or maybe switch to wing. Who knows.

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01-06-2014, 12:23 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
This is especially funny considering the sentence right above it.

Couts has done NOTHING to prove he is more than a 3rd line center either.


When Couts scores: his thread gets bumped, he's the next great thing, he is a top 5 two way player in the game, he gets compared to HOFers

When he does nothing offensively (150 of the 165 games he has played): he is young, he has potential, he has hard match ups, he has bad linemates, stop rushing him.

Sounds exactly like HFBoards to me
Well, he is 3rd in TOI/G amongst Flyer forwards, only behind Read and Giroux. Not every second line center is in an offensive role only.

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01-06-2014, 01:09 PM
  #833
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Laughton can be the 2nd line center, having proved nothing at all nor having shown any real reason to believe such a thing, and Couturier is doomed to be a 20-30 point player for the next 15 years because he isn't tearing the league apart at 18-21 years old facing insanely hard competition for a player his age.

Is that about the point you're trying to make here? Because it seems kinds of absurd.

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01-06-2014, 01:16 PM
  #834
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I still believe Couts can be a 50 point guy but being an amazing two way guy. He just turned 21. Let him come into his own over the next couple years.

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01-06-2014, 01:54 PM
  #835
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I wanna see what he can do when he fills out his 6'4 frame. I feel like he will be a monster at protecting the puck with his body

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01-06-2014, 02:23 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Since his 4 point game:

14GP 2G 2A 4PTS -11

What's the difference? (besides a lot of bad turnovers and poor defensive decisions)

Matt Read has fallen off a cliff (Downie has been awful too for the record)

Read made that line go offensively, not Sean. Not Steve.
I think Downie was the catalyst for that line to excel offensively. His battle and puck posession drew defenders and he is skilled as a playmaker, passing to players in scoring positions. To me the chemistry those three have is unmistakable.

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01-06-2014, 03:48 PM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Laughton can be the 2nd line center, having proved nothing at all nor having shown any real reason to believe such a thing, and Couturier is doomed to be a 20-30 point player for the next 15 years because he isn't tearing the league apart at 18-21 years old facing insanely hard competition for a player his age.

Is that about the point you're trying to make here? Because it seems kinds of absurd.
The guy is a complete dolt. I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

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01-06-2014, 04:01 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Laughton can be the 2nd line center, having proved nothing at all nor having shown any real reason to believe such a thing, and Couturier is doomed to be a 20-30 point player for the next 15 years because he isn't tearing the league apart at 18-21 years old facing insanely hard competition for a player his age.

Is that about the point you're trying to make here? Because it seems kinds of absurd.
my point is that Couts will never be the consistent 60 point player people think he will.

He will continue to get tough matchups, and wont be able to create enough offensively to put up those kind of numbers.

Guys like Schenn and Laughton (potentially) will be given the chance to be in a more offensive role, and will get more offensive minded linemates....giving them the opportunity to put up better numbers and be more traditional '2nd line' kind of players.

I am not sure whats absurd about that.

I in no way at all have guaranteed Laughton to be anything. I am guessing he will get a chance to be an offensive guy, rather than a shutdown guy.

Couts is good at being the shutdown guy. And that is where he will stay. And i dont see 60 points coming from him as long as he is in that role.

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01-06-2014, 04:10 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by GagneHanson12 View Post
The guy is a complete dolt. I wouldn't listen to a word he says.
Yes, they guy who thinks it is ridiculous to compare Sean Couturier to Steve Yzerman is the idiot....not the people who think he is already a top 5 two way forward in the game...

Ohhhh noooo someone doesnt think Couturier is going to be a consistent 60 point player. What is the world coming to!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with being a 30-40 point shutdown guy. Once again, I have no problem with Couts being that guy. I pray that he is...but he wont be a 60 point guy.

Fun fact: mike richards is barely a consistent 60 point guy -- and he is a hell of a lot better than sean couturier

If you think Couts is up there with Toews and Datsyuk, and the other two way 60 point forwards....then you need to start watching other teams play. Those guys are in another league

Yes, I am aware of Sean's age before you decide to ask me that question again

All I have been saying this whole thread, is that if you dont lower the expectations for this kid, you are setting him up to fail

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01-06-2014, 04:11 PM
  #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
my point is that Couts will never be the consistent 60 point player people think he will.

He will continue to get tough matchups, and wont be able to create enough offensively to put up those kind of numbers.

Guys like Schenn and Laughton (potentially) will be given the chance to be in a more offensive role, and will get more offensive minded linemates....giving them the opportunity to put up better numbers and be more traditional '2nd line' kind of players.

I am not sure whats absurd about that.

I in no way at all have guaranteed Laughton to be anything. I am guessing he will get a chance to be an offensive guy, rather than a shutdown guy.

Couts is good at being the shutdown guy. And that is where he will stay. And i dont see 60 points coming from him as long as he is in that role.
Never is a really strong, finite word. There is an outside chance he can mature into a guy like Patrice Bergeron at his absolute best, READ, AT HIS ABSOLUTE BEST, and score 60 while taking tough assignments. It'd be extremely awesome if that happens. How likely is it? Probably not as likely as what you're saying, but don't act like there isn't a chance.

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01-06-2014, 04:16 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Yes, they guy who thinks it is ridiculous to compare Sean Couturier to Steve Yzerman is the idiot....not the people who think he is already a top 5 two way forward in the game...

Ohhhh noooo someone doesnt think Couturier is going to be a consistent 60 point player. What is the world coming to!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with being a 30-40 point shutdown guy. Once again, I have no problem with Couts being that guy. I pray that he is...but he wont be a 60 point guy.

Fun fact: mike richards is barely a consistent 60 point guy -- and he is a hell of a lot better than sean couturier

If you think Couts is up there with Toews and Datsyuk, and the other two way 60 point forwards....then you need to start watching other teams play. Those guys are in another league

Yes, I am aware of Sean's age before you decide to ask me that question again

All I have been saying this whole thread, is that if you dont lower the expectations for this kid, you are setting him up to fail
Except no one compares him to Steve Yzerman, or Toews, or Datsyuk. Those guys are all elite level producers (with Toews being the worst at about a PPG player). That's a huge difference than having hope that Couturier could hit 60 in a good year.

And btw, Couturier has a much better shot at becoming a top six centerman than Laughton. Laughton looks like a slightly more physical version of Chris Kelly to me. Good player, but you don't want him anywhere near your top six for an entire season.

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01-06-2014, 04:17 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
my point is that Couts will never be the consistent 60 point player people think he will.

He will continue to get tough matchups, and wont be able to create enough offensively to put up those kind of numbers.

Guys like Schenn and Laughton (potentially) will be given the chance to be in a more offensive role, and will get more offensive minded linemates....giving them the opportunity to put up better numbers and be more traditional '2nd line' kind of players.

I am not sure whats absurd about that.

I in no way at all have guaranteed Laughton to be anything. I am guessing he will get a chance to be an offensive guy, rather than a shutdown guy.

Couts is good at being the shutdown guy. And that is where he will stay. And i dont see 60 points coming from him as long as he is in that role.
It sounds like you're backtracking a bit.

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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
He's not that great offensively. And other than a 9 game stretch, he has proved that.
There's a difference between Couturier not producing because "he's not that great offensively" and Couturier not producing because "he will continue to get tough matchups".

Most of us concede that as long as he is in an exclusively shutdown role, he won't be putting up 55+ points, so I'm not sure what your gripe is here. Nobody is saying that he can put up big numbers given his current role on the team. There's not a player in the NHL who can put up those numbers with the kind of minutes Couturier gets with the exception of maybe Bergeron. But even his numbers are down this year.

It's the reason people are constantly (and ignorantly) disappointed with J. Staal, and it's the same reason Bergeron's offensive numbers are not outstanding right now. All three players, with easier minutes, would produce significantly higher numbers.

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01-06-2014, 04:18 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Never is a really strong, finite word. There is an outside chance he can mature into a guy like Patrice Bergeron at his absolute best, READ, AT HIS ABSOLUTE BEST, and score 60 while taking tough assignments. It'd be extremely awesome if that happens. How likely is it? Probably not as likely as what you're saying, but don't act like there isn't a chance.
Never is a strong word, youre right. Who knows what happens.

He may be that guy. I hope to god he is. I just haven't seen enough from him to convince me he could put up 60 points even if he wasn't drawing tough assignments...

I understand people hoping a guy pans out, but the over hyping of him has become ridiculous....its so effing rare to get a guy who is that good defensively to be a star offensively....i dont think everyone truly understands that

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01-06-2014, 04:20 PM
  #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Never is a strong word, youre right. Who knows what happens.

He may be that guy. I hope to god he is. I just haven't seen enough from him to convince me he could put up 60 points even if he wasn't drawing tough assignments...

I understand people hoping a guy pans out, but the over hyping of him has become ridiculous....its so effing rare to get a guy who is that good defensively to be a star offensively....i dont think everyone truly understands that
I get what you're saying. I really hope he becomes that guy. I also hope the emergence of Laughton can allow Coots to take less of a defensive burden and get a chance to move into a role that allows for more point production.

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01-06-2014, 04:30 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Yes, they guy who thinks it is ridiculous to compare Sean Couturier to Steve Yzerman is the idiot....
Who is making this comparison?

Just a totally random straw man.

Quote:
not the people who think he is already a top 5 two way forward in the game...
Nobody thinks this. We think he's arguably a top five defensive forward.

Elite two way forwards: Toews, Kopitar, Backes, etc.

Elite defensive forwards: Couturier, J. Staal, Bergeron


Huge difference.

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01-06-2014, 04:35 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Who is making this comparison?

Just a totally random straw man.


Nobody thinks this. We think he's arguably a top five defensive forward.

Elite two way forwards: Toews, Kopitar, Backes, etc.

Elite defensive forwards: Couturier, J. Staal, Bergeron


Huge difference.
I think one person once said it and immediately got torn apart for it.

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01-06-2014, 04:37 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Who is making this comparison?

Just a totally random straw man.


Nobody thinks this. We think he's arguably a top five defensive forward.

Elite two way forwards: Toews, Kopitar, Backes, etc.

Elite defensive forwards: Couturier, J. Staal, Bergeron


Huge difference.
Read the thread.

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01-06-2014, 04:43 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
It sounds like you're backtracking a bit.



There's a difference between Couturier not producing because "he's not that great offensively" and Couturier not producing because "he will continue to get tough matchups".

Most of us concede that as long as he is in an exclusively shutdown role, he won't be putting up 55+ points, so I'm not sure what your gripe is here. Nobody is saying that he can put up big numbers given his current role on the team. There's not a player in the NHL who can put up those numbers with the kind of minutes Couturier gets with the exception of maybe Bergeron. But even his numbers are down this year.

It's the reason people are constantly (and ignorantly) disappointed with J. Staal, and it's the same reason Bergeron's offensive numbers are not outstanding right now. All three players, with easier minutes, would produce significantly higher numbers.
How so?

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01-06-2014, 04:58 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Read the thread.
Ah, yes. Even better than the ridiculous straw man argument-- the "one person said it, therefore everyone must agree with it" argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
How so?
Well, first you argued that Couturier wasn't producing because "he's not that great offensively". Now you have backtracked and begun arguing that Couturier isn't producing because he's not in any position to produce offensively.

Your first argument is an unfair one to make. Your second argument is much more reasonable and one that you will find many of us actually agree with.

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01-06-2014, 05:23 PM
  #850
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Ah, yes. Even better than the ridiculous straw man argument-- the "one person said it, therefore everyone must agree with it" argument.




Well, first you argued that Couturier wasn't producing because "he's not that great offensively". Now you have backtracked and begun arguing that Couturier isn't producing because he's not in any position to produce offensively.

Your first argument is an unfair one to make. Your second argument is much more reasonable and one that you will find many of us actually agree with.
What I am trying to say:

He is better defensively than he is offensively. Therefore, he will continue to get tough match ups.

Considering the match ups he will get; for him to put up 60 points, he would have to be a great offensive player. I do not believe that he is.

I don't think he could put up 60 even with better match ups.


There were plenty of Couturier fan boys saying this guy was going to be a consistent 55+ guy -- they have backtracked quite a bit in the past few weeks -- but they are still there, believe me

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