HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

So basically Chris Kreider is Tony Amonte

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2014, 01:30 PM
  #26
ck20
Registered User
 
ck20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,136
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
I hear ya, but he's gaining more and more confidence with every game. I'd say 30-40 next year is not out of the question.
Let's see if Kreider can hit 20 in a full season first before saying doubling a total he hasn't even hit yet is a feasible next step. He doesn't even have 20 career goals combining regular season+playoffs.

ck20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:31 PM
  #27
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 72,861
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Me neither. Kreider is bigger and stronger. Amonte had much, much better hands.
Agreed. Amonte was barely 6 feet and was under 200 pounds. He also wasn't all that strong. It's really a terrible comparison. The two guys are pretty much opposites.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
Bird Law is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:33 PM
  #28
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,115
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Kind of like Cam Neely
Neely on steroids. Double the production.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:33 PM
  #29
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yet, I bet when its all said and done, Amonte has the better career.

And thats not a shot at Kreider - if he has a career even approaching Amonte's, we should be very happy.

Mentioning Gartner is ridiculous.
i don't think OP is talking about career. just home growns able to score 40 goals. you get the comparisons I'm sure. Gartner was fast. Kreider is fast. Amonte was fast. Kreider is fast. Gartner was a goal scorer. Amonte was a goal scorer. Kreider we hope can also be that goal scorer, thus this thread. It is kinda sad that we don't have any home grown goal scorers but there aren't really any more than ten 40 goal scorers in a season in modern day NHL. We are talking top tier talents.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:40 PM
  #30
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Speaking of Kreider here is a random article in the Washington Post of all places that says Kreider is the top rookie so far halfway into the season

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...of-nhl-season/
didn't realize he became part of our shutdown unit!

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:44 PM
  #31
ecemleafs
Registered User
 
ecemleafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,179
vCash: 500
Kreiders advanced stats are actually really really good.

ecemleafs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:45 PM
  #32
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,249
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Sorry, having no open threads about Kreider is illegal.

Both Americans
Both from Massachusetts
Both big, strong and fast, albeit Kreider's speed is on another level.

Kreider has all the tools and potential to be the the first 40 goal scorer since Amonte, who was one of my favorite Rangers. I died when they traded him.

Every time I see Kreider I think of Tony... it only took us 20 years to home grow a real sniper. Good job, Sather, you did something right.
amonte was a better sniper, and not very big at all.

In fact he looked alot smaller than his 6 foot frame would indicate

pld459666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 01:53 PM
  #33
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
Let's see if Kreider can hit 20 in a full season first before saying doubling a total he hasn't even hit yet is a feasible next step. He doesn't even have 20 career goals combining regular season+playoffs.
Nah let's not. We all see his potential is being realized, which we'll be able to quantify in terms of production within the next few years.

He's the first home-grown winger (if not forward) with star skills since Tony Amonte.

But I'll change the title for you if you'd like (no I won't)


Also, I love the Bill Guerin comparison... nice job

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:00 PM
  #34
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 72,861
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
amonte was a better sniper, and not very big at all.

In fact he looked alot smaller than his 6 foot frame would indicate
I always felt he was more around 5'10".

Mainly because I am 5'10" and I was the exact same height he is when I met him.

Bird Law is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:03 PM
  #35
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,851
vCash: 500
Amonte had 68 goals in his first 2 years. He played 95% of his shifts with Messier and Graves. Messier won the Hart in 91-92. Graves was a great player before he hurt his back in the 94 playoffs.

Kreider is more like Pacioretty/JVR.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:11 PM
  #36
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,174
vCash: 500
40 goals is tough. This year, Kreider is averaging 2.33 shots per game. Over 82 games, that's ~191 shots. His shooting percentage has been going up lately as he's been scoring more. He's now at 13.1%.

In 2009-10, Gaborik scored 42 goals on 272 shots for 15.4%. In 2011-12, Gaborik scored 41 goals on 276 shots for 14.9%.

Since the first lockout, the player to score 40+ with the least amount of shots was Brad Boyles with 207 shots (and 20.8%). The player to score 40+ with the lowest shooting percentage was Ovechkin with 10.6% (and 528 shots!).

At 13.1%, Kreider would need to take 306 shots. At 191 shots, he would need to shoot at ~21%. Neither of those is likely, but if he can improve his shooting percentage to 15%, then he only needs 267 shots, which is roughly 3.25 shots per game.

All the math aside, let's see him hit 20 goals this year, and 30 next year, before we worry about 40.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:16 PM
  #37
Nightshift
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
Krieder reminds me of Bill Guerin without the mean streak.

Nightshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:44 PM
  #38
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,518
vCash: 566
Only if Tony Amonte jumped out of pools.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:52 PM
  #39
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Amonte had 68 goals in his first 2 years. He played 95% of his shifts with Messier and Graves. Messier won the Hart in 91-92. Graves was a great player before he hurt his back in the 94 playoffs.

Kreider is more like Pacioretty/JVR.
Kreider is Pacioretty. That is the type of player the Rangers should be hoping he turns into.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 02:52 PM
  #40
NYRangers723
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,642
vCash: 500
Still too early since Amonte was a hell of a offensive player. i still cringe that we gave him up. Yes i know we still won a stanley cup but i often wonder if Amote remianed a ranger maybe we could have more success. Back to kreider i expect him to get 25 goals this season which would be a good step considering he missed teh first 8-9 games

NYRangers723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 04:41 PM
  #41
NickyFotiu
Registered User
 
NickyFotiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yet, I bet when its all said and done, Amonte has the better career.

And thats not a shot at Kreider - if he has a career even approaching Amonte's, we should be very happy.

Mentioning Gartner is ridiculous.
Maybe I should have been more clear. When I mentioned Gartner I was speaking in terms of powerful skating stride and shooting not in terms of numbers.

NickyFotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:22 PM
  #42
Clausewitz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Country: Israel
Posts: 784
vCash: 500
He actually reminds me of #81 on the Hawks: exceptional skating, acceleration, strength* (though CK is a bit bigger than Hossa) and -- we're starting to find out -- scoring touch. To be fair, Hossa scored just 15 goals (in 60 games) in his rookie year, and didn't become a 30-goal scorer until his third season (32 goals in 81 games). Indeed, having watched the Hoss ever since he broke into the league in '98/99**, the similarities between CK and Hossa are a big reason of why I've become so fond of No. 20. Finally, just for kicks, here's one goal of Hossa's that I could see CK duplicating:



Sources:
(1) http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=28407
(2) Various Hossa YouTube compilations
(3) 15 years (my, how time flies!) of observation

* While covering a Hawks match on NBC either last year or the year before last, Enzo mentioned that Hossa was the strongest player against whom Keith Tkachuk said he played.

** I'm not counting the seven games #81 played in '97/98.

Clausewitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:22 PM
  #43
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Kreider--somewhat bigger. Much stronger. Faster. Better in the corners and has shown more playmaking ability.

Amonte--better goal scoring instincts but played in a league when scoring goals wasn't as hard as it is now. A little more edge--mentally quicker on figuring out the NHL game.

But the big question is: how well does Kreider's sister play hockey?

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:27 PM
  #44
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Maybe I should have been more clear. When I mentioned Gartner I was speaking in terms of powerful skating stride and shooting not in terms of numbers.
Its still ridiculous.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:31 PM
  #45
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Nah let's not. We all see his potential is being realized, which we'll be able to quantify in terms of production within the next few years.

He's the first home-grown winger (if not forward) with star skills since Tony Amonte.

But I'll change the title for you if you'd like (no I won't)


Also, I love the Bill Guerin comparison... nice job
Kovalev?

It is amazing how many things you have gotten wrong in a thread you started.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:33 PM
  #46
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thordic View Post
I think most fans, myself included, feel we still could have won the cup with Amonte. It's debateable, along with the Gartner trade (although as Mike was older at the time, it's irrelevant).

Andersson started out on the top line with Messier and Graves, but quickly proved to be too old to be useful. He was supposed to be a playoff specialist, but was on our 4th line for the playoffs, which is how Kovalev was originally switched to the RW to play on the first line, which eventually led to Messier's hat trick in Game 6 vs. the Debbies where Kovalev was instrumental in helping Mess.

If we had Amonte and Gartner instead of Matteau and Noonan, we would've won anyway, and would've likely had an easier time.

Of the 4 trades on that trading deadline, two were bad (Amonte and Gartner), one was good (Marchant for MacTavish) and one was irrelevant (Phil Bourque, who whined incessantly that Keenan was unfair to him).

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:41 PM
  #47
NYRangers723
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Andersson started out on the top line with Messier and Graves, but quickly proved to be too old to be useful. He was supposed to be a playoff specialist, but was on our 4th line for the playoffs, which is how Kovalev was originally switched to the RW to play on the first line, which eventually led to Messier's hat trick in Game 6 vs. the Debbies where Kovalev was instrumental in helping Mess.

If we had Amonte and Gartner instead of Matteau and Noonan, we would've won anyway, and would've likely had an easier time.

Of the 4 trades on that trading deadline, two were bad (Amonte and Gartner), one was good (Marchant for MacTavish) and one was irrelevant (Phil Bourque, who whined incessantly that Keenan was unfair to him).

Also Keenan disliked Amonte and loved Matteau and Noonan. Hell he was fine with trading Amonte straight up for either guy. I know Mattaeu is now a legend for his OT goals but i think we would have had an easier time with both Amonte and Gartner

NYRangers723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:43 PM
  #48
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Andersson started out on the top line with Messier and Graves, but quickly proved to be too old to be useful. He was supposed to be a playoff specialist, but was on our 4th line for the playoffs, which is how Kovalev was originally switched to the RW to play on the first line, which eventually led to Messier's hat trick in Game 6 vs. the Debbies where Kovalev was instrumental in helping Mess.

If we had Amonte and Gartner instead of Matteau and Noonan, we would've won anyway, and would've likely had an easier time.

Of the 4 trades on that trading deadline, two were bad (Amonte and Gartner), one was good (Marchant for MacTavish) and one was irrelevant (Phil Bourque, who whined incessantly that Keenan was unfair to him).
Not so sure about that. Will never need to find out.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:54 PM
  #49
NickyFotiu
Registered User
 
NickyFotiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its still ridiculous.
Having you say that just reinforces my belief that its a good comparison of skating and shooting skills.

NickyFotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2014, 05:56 PM
  #50
NickyFotiu
Registered User
 
NickyFotiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Also Keenan disliked Amonte and loved Matteau and Noonan. Hell he was fine with trading Amonte straight up for either guy. I know Mattaeu is now a legend for his OT goals but i think we would have had an easier time with both Amonte and Gartner
I agree with you. Gartner was a playoff scoring machine in their last playoff season before the cup run.

NickyFotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.