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Old
01-06-2014, 10:21 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Watching the Beginnings episode for John moore right now...

my armchair GM senses via TV show report:

Kid is definitely competitive, driven, smart, devoted.

BUT

He's also immature, a bit slow spoken (perhaps he is not the fastest thinker?), and he is a richie.... family definitely has ALOT of money, unlike alot of these players that come from nothing, or huge families. He may not have the "I work my way to the top" mentality just because of his background.

I have a feeling the kid has serious potential, but he's going to have to be broken in, in a serious manner, with no ********... AV needs to do a number on him in a good way.
Winnetka is one of the richest zip codes in the U.S.

But I don't believe that you have to be a "farm-hand" or a starving peasant without a roof to play hockey. You just need to be competitive.

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01-06-2014, 10:47 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Watching the Beginnings episode for John moore right now...

my armchair GM senses via TV show report:

Kid is definitely competitive, driven, smart, devoted.

BUT

He's also immature, a bit slow spoken (perhaps he is not the fastest thinker?), and he is a richie.... family definitely has ALOT of money, unlike alot of these players that come from nothing, or huge families. He may not have the "I work my way to the top" mentality just because of his background.

I have a feeling the kid has serious potential, but he's going to have to be broken in, in a serious manner, with no ********... AV needs to do a number on him in a good way.
Oh come on. I think he's a terrible defenseman but this just isn't fair.

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Old
01-06-2014, 11:33 PM
  #28
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IMO : John Moore will never be better than a 3rd pairing D.

I believe he will not be on the roster within a year or 2.

Re: comparisons to DZ ... In pickup game I select DZ quickly rather than go with Moore. If I had to pay salaries I would take Moore.

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01-06-2014, 11:38 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
and he is a richie.... family definitely has ALOT of money, unlike alot of these players that come from nothing, or huge families. He may not have the "I work my way to the top" mentality just because of his background.

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Old
01-07-2014, 12:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
IMO : John Moore will never be better than a 3rd pairing D.

I believe he will not be on the roster within a year or 2.

Re: comparisons to DZ ... In pickup game I select DZ quickly rather than go with Moore. If I had to pay salaries I would take Moore.
What? This is just unfounded. Thank you expert HF couch potato poster. Never more than a 3rd pair defenseman? I'm sure Montreal was feeling the same way about McDonagh before they traded him to us.


I do feel Moore should sit and watch a game or two. He hasnt produced and has been mediocre. He wont sit against Chicago seeing as that is his homecoming.

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Old
01-07-2014, 12:44 AM
  #31
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He should gain weight if he wants to be an NHL Dman. He has potential but is running out of time to prove he belongs.

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Old
01-07-2014, 01:15 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Amazing that people are surprised that the players the Rangers got for an ineffective Gaborik are flawed.
What does Gaborik have to do with this?
^^^^ remark as always
Sather should have done a better trade then - no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Watching the Beginnings episode for John moore right now...

my armchair GM senses via TV show report:

Kid is definitely competitive, driven, smart, devoted.

BUT

He's also immature, a bit slow spoken (perhaps he is not the fastest thinker?), and he is a richie.... family definitely has ALOT of money, unlike alot of these players that come from nothing, or huge families. He may not have the "I work my way to the top" mentality just because of his background.

I have a feeling the kid has serious potential, but he's going to have to be broken in, in a serious manner, with no ********... AV needs to do a number on him in a good way.
Be careful what you ask for
Maybe you play the lottery by chance one day
And all of the sudden you get to the top without working for it
What are all your new rich buddies gonna do with YOU to "break you in"?
This is not Robin Hood fantasy world buddy
Stereotyping like this tells volumes of where you are coming from and it is not a pretty place
You think people from families that are well off cannot compete with poor kids from big families?
Your right to think so but we agree to disagree
This is about hockey
Not spindoctoring class clashes in a delusional way

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Old
01-07-2014, 01:43 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
What does Gaborik have to do with this?
^^^^ remark as always
Sather should have done a better trade then - no?



Be careful what you ask for
Maybe you play the lottery by chance one day
And all of the sudden you get to the top without working for it
What are all your new rich buddies gonna do with YOU to "break you in"?
This is not Robin Hood fantasy world buddy
Stereotyping like this tells volumes of where you are coming from and it is not a pretty place
You think people from families that are well off cannot compete with poor kids from big families?
Your right to think so but we agree to disagree
This is about hockey
Not spindoctoring class clashes in a delusional way
I'm not saying he is a bad person... BUT, you and I both know that the man that works for his million dollars is usually a "better" man than the one who inherits his million dollars...

I'm not judging the guy based on this, it's just something that comes with the territory of rich relatives.

I'm talking about his HOCKEY skills, THAT's where he needs to be broken in... He needs to learn the game and cut out his mistakes.

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Old
01-07-2014, 06:58 AM
  #34
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Third year in the league. Not a cerebral player, that's for sure.

Chicken vs the Egg. Are all Rangers d-men having bad years because of Lundqvist or is Lundqvist having a bad year because of the d-men.

He's got potential and he's under 24.

I'd hold on to him for a little longer. He's been brutal but the options arent available.

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01-07-2014, 07:26 AM
  #35
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Just go to say this--but generally speaking professional hockey players (at least those from North America) come from the middle classes on up and especially these days. When you consider all the costs--how expensive equipment is--a family that can transport you all over the place--in and out of state or country--that can find the free time to get their kids to the rink for all the practices etc. It takes up plenty of time and money for the parents of these kids.

Now there may be a bunch of people here who learned all on their very own playing with kids in the neighborhood--who saved up the cash from snow shoveling and lawn mowing to buy cheap pairs of skates and wooden sticks--to whom Nick Fotiu is a god (for doing it the very same way) but those days are gone. It's much more organized than that.

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01-07-2014, 01:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I'm not saying he is a bad person... BUT, you and I both know that the man that works for his million dollars is usually a "better" man than the one who inherits his million dollars...
...

He's an NHLer. That's his profession. He's worked for his "million dollars" (well 850k this year). I don't care how naturally talented you are, if you are a professional athlete in a major sport, you've worked hard to make it there.

And like eco said above, the majority of the league comes from the middle class and above. Hockey is a expensive youth sport.

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01-07-2014, 01:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
BUT, you and I both know that the man that works for his million dollars is usually a "better" man than the one who inherits his million dollars....
Wow.

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01-07-2014, 01:59 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Wow.
i must have dazzled you?

Please... since youre so smart... tell me that the person who's parents (who are doctors in this caes) bought his audi is a more responsible person than the kid who works and saves and puts a down payment of his own money on his Audi in his name......

In every case? Absolutely not, but in most cases, you know that the kid who has his **** handed to him does not know how to take care of it...

not saying this is john moore, but he comes background of riches

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01-07-2014, 01:59 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
i must have dazzled you?
Offended, confounded, sickened, yes. Dazzled, not so much.

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01-07-2014, 02:08 PM
  #40
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I got my stash
Made it from scratch
May I always be the lesser man then
OTOH I grew up in Evanston in an apartment townhouse (quite the melting pot albeit being affluent in areas) but played hockey in Winnetka
Just cuz my Dad started coaching there
Our games against Evanston were always life and death battles
The "rich guys" really saw that this was the game for me to win each year
I was the goalie
We had brawls - yes nice ones at that - in some games
They (my spolied teamates) put up their best and we usually won against the bluer collar team
Some tough guys they were in all sports (New Trier as well)
Very competitive
John Moore is from that win or die in glory mentality place
Not suppose we do not win and then I will live nice off of daddies dirty bucks

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Old
01-07-2014, 03:03 PM
  #41
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I have my own opinion on guys who inherit millions but it has nothing to do with hockey.

Here's something that DOES have to do with hockey, though- John Moore is worse than MDZ, will never be better than MDZ, and AV's handling of MDZ has been a catastrophe. -

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01-07-2014, 05:36 PM
  #42
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Brian Leetch grew up priveledged in Cheshire, CT and is arguably one of the most humble players to ever don the uniform.

Brett Hull grew up rich. Mark Howe grew up rich. Andrew Luck grew up rich. Kevin Love grew up rich.....and on and on.

Money has nothing to do with it. Everybody is wired differently.

I'm pretty sure Moore doesnt think "Screw it. I'm rich. I dont have to work hard next period"

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01-07-2014, 05:39 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
i must have dazzled you?

Please... since youre so smart... tell me that the person who's parents (who are doctors in this caes) bought his audi is a more responsible person than the kid who works and saves and puts a down payment of his own money on his Audi in his name......

In every case? Absolutely not, but in most cases, you know that the kid who has his **** handed to him does not know how to take care of it...

not saying this is john moore, but he comes background of riches
This has to be in contention for the most irrelevant post on the board. And that's one hell of an achievement.

John Moore isn't doing well because he's not good at NHL level hockey.

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01-07-2014, 05:53 PM
  #44
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John Moore makes numerous gaffes and horrible plays but somehow he's managed to keep his +/- respectable. His -2 is the best of all our defensemen. I know some people don't like this particular stat but his usual d-partners this year have been MDZ (-6) and Justin Falk (-5). Stralman's and Staal's are the Ranger's worst (both at -9).

Personally I'm not that impressed by his background either but it is what it is. Can't help who your parents are. A whole hell of a lot different from Dorsett's folks.

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01-07-2014, 07:21 PM
  #45
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Yeah. I'm sure that John Moore would have been Duncan Keith if he had just grown up a farm boy.

Damn you Winnetka!

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01-07-2014, 10:23 PM
  #46
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Just because someone grows up in a "rich" suburb doesn't make them or their family rich.

John Moore worked hard enough to get drafted in the first round of the NHL draft. Whether he lives up to that potential has nothing to do with his parents' wealth.

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Old
01-07-2014, 10:28 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Watching the Beginnings episode for John moore right now...

my armchair GM senses via TV show report:

Kid is definitely competitive, driven, smart, devoted.

BUT

He's also immature, a bit slow spoken (perhaps he is not the fastest thinker?), and he is a richie.... family definitely has ALOT of money, unlike alot of these players that come from nothing, or huge families. He may not have the "I work my way to the top" mentality just because of his background.

I have a feeling the kid has serious potential, but he's going to have to be broken in, in a serious manner, with no ********... AV needs to do a number on him in a good way.
FFS what the hell does his family wealth have to do with anything?

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01-07-2014, 10:31 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
i must have dazzled you?

Please... since youre so smart... tell me that the person who's parents (who are doctors in this caes) bought his audi is a more responsible person than the kid who works and saves and puts a down payment of his own money on his Audi in his name......

In every case? Absolutely not, but in most cases, you know that the kid who has his **** handed to him does not know how to take care of it...

not saying this is john moore, but he comes background of riches
It is completely based on the child, not the parents wealth. Your demonization of his parents wealth has nothing to do with him as a player and it seems as if you are flat out jealous and don't like the wealthy.

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01-07-2014, 10:38 PM
  #49
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I think it's rarer in ice hockey for a player to grow up with poverty since it's such an expensive sport to play in the first place. That being said, work ethic is something that can be preached to wealthy or non-wealthy.

Lundqvist for example played in a variety of Winter sports and was basically on his childhood favorite team at the age of 16. He was in a very good financial situation growing up, his sister was in professional tennis. Ultimately, his drive, natural talent and motivation is what geared him up to be one of the top goalies in the NHL.

On topic of Moore, I think he'll level out as a solid skating NHL dman like a Campoli. Some seasons he'll fill in effectively as a 2nd pair guy, other seasons he'll struggled to get ice time IMO.


Last edited by Mint: 01-07-2014 at 10:59 PM.
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01-07-2014, 10:48 PM
  #50
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John Moore is a beautiful skating #7 currently who still has a couple of attractive attributes (good shot, nice size, willing to play physical and drop the mitts) but is running out of time to put it together. Right now he's capable of playing a bottom pairing role anywhere from decently to poorly, as most #7s are, but he is nothing more than that. If he can improve his zone awareness and actually find a way to utilize his speed and shot without being a liability defensively, he can be a good bottom pairing dman.

We all caught a crush on him because he can shoot the puck (something we nearly forgot the site of from a dman in NY) and has skating that almost rivals McD. He also showed he was willing to drop the gloves for us within a short time of arriving here. Those things don't actually make him a good dman, however, and now that the honey moon is over, the reality is that he's barely a #6 right now. Still has time to evolve, but the ceiling is much lower than we were cooing about when we first laid eyes on him.

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