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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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01-07-2014, 08:37 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think the 1st deal may have some legs to it.

The 2nd one? You're not getting Lindholm for Girardi alone, not to mention that you want the Ducks to add Kerdiles AND a 1st?

Lindholm is playing just 3 less minutes a game than Girardi, has more points and is a +22 (leads the Ducks D in that catagory).

now, you may point out that he's on a better team and I would argue that he's as much a reason for their success as any other player not named Getzlaf and Perry.

No way in hell do you get Lindholm for Girardi without major adds from the Rangers side.


maybe something around Marc Staal and Brassard to Canes for Elias Lindholm, Ryan Murphy and Brock McGinn??

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01-07-2014, 08:40 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If the Rangers are not going to re-sign Girardi,they have to trade him. The team isn't a Cup contender. The team is in no position to allow the player to walk for nothing in July. The price isn't going down. The Rangers know where the cap is being set for next season. A friend of mine told me last night that Sather will get a lot for Girardi looking at the list of available D as possible rentals. Look at the same list. Girardi will name his price as a group III. Out of a playoff spot. In a playoff spot. It doesn't matter. Are the Rangers re-signing Girardi? NO. Trade him. YES. Sign him already. Its very simple. Its January 7 and the player is not signed.

Same thing with Callahan.
Exactly this. I see no reason for either player to sign without hitting UFA either. Both will have a ton of suitors.

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01-07-2014, 08:57 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Exactly this. I see no reason for either player to sign without hitting UFA either. Both will have a ton of suitors.
I'm with you guys....obviously, because it's the right move.

We have to sign them now or move them for a return....

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01-07-2014, 09:17 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Messier had a clause built into his contract that allowed him to re-negotiate his deal should the Rangers win a cup. They did and he wanted a better deal.

He could have negotiated that while still playing, but he threatened to hold out after the cup. He got his 3 year 18 million dollar deal after the 93-94 cup season. The only saving grace for the Rangers back then was that the 94-95 season started late due to a lockout.

He became a UFA during the summer of 97 and bolted.

There was no one year extension.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/2788
You're right about Messier having the right to renegotiate his deal if they won the Cup. They won the Cup and Messier signed his new deal before the first regular season home game - needing to have Mess out there for the banner-raising was quite the leverage. I don't remember if The Rangers started the season on the road and, if so, if Mess missed a regular season game or two, but either way, there was no holdout that went deep into the season.

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01-07-2014, 09:33 AM
  #255
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If we're going to move Girardi--shouldn't move him until the last few days before the last trade deadline. Drive the ****ing price up. There are always teams looking to add D and when there's a really quality one available in the last moments there's going to be some overpayment. Do it too soon and some other team that's more patient is going to get more for a lesser player.

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01-07-2014, 09:51 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If we're going to move Girardi--shouldn't move him until the last few days before the last trade deadline. Drive the ****ing price up. There are always teams looking to add D and when there's a really quality one available in the last moments there's going to be some overpayment. Do it too soon and some other team that's more patient is going to get more for a lesser player.
again, like I said. Look at the team around game 60, three games before the trade deadline.

Most of these players will be re-signed or moved

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01-07-2014, 10:01 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
maybe something around Marc Staal and Brassard to Canes for Elias Lindholm, Ryan Murphy and Brock McGinn??
Not even close.......literally

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01-07-2014, 10:07 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
You're right about Messier having the right to renegotiate his deal if they won the Cup. They won the Cup and Messier signed his new deal before the first regular season home game - needing to have Mess out there for the banner-raising was quite the leverage. I don't remember if The Rangers started the season on the road and, if so, if Mess missed a regular season game or two, but either way, there was no holdout that went deep into the season.
I believe they opened at home against Buffalo in January because of the lockout/strike and Messier was there for it.

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01-07-2014, 10:13 AM
  #259
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I'm surprised we haven't heard anything on Boyle. He's a UFA and Sather said he generated more interest from other teams at the deadline than Gaborik last year.


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01-07-2014, 10:22 AM
  #260
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I can see where this will be going as we head towards the dead line.

It will be interesting to see how well the team does given the uncertainty.

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01-07-2014, 11:01 AM
  #261
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I would not play chicken with the deadline in these deals. Start the calls now. If any of these marketable guys gets hurt, you lose them for nothing. I put Boyle on the market today. I talk to Stralman and offer him a raise. A modest raise. If he doesn't sign it immediately, the for sale sign goes out on him too. Dominic Moore should be worth his annual second round pick from someone. Pouliot has had a hot stretch, maybe someone will be fooled into thinking that can continue and offer something. By chumming the water with the lesser guys, the Sharks (not the team) will start up the feeding frenzy. If you fool around and wait until the deadline, the clock can be your friend or it can be your enemy. If teams start strengthening early, other contenders will be forced to follow. That and you don't want the interested teams with the best to offer to have given it away to someone else already.
The Girardi and Callahan trades must be made. No other way to go about this. The long term health of this team depends upon it.

I know it leaves the roster with a ton of question marks, too many to speculate on.

Call it a tank, call it a rebuild. Facts are all these guys can step off at years end and you may need to fill these holes anyway. You may as well get something back to fill them with.

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01-07-2014, 11:06 AM
  #262
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Rebuild

Rebuild

Rebuild


.....why can't the New York Rangers ever contend for a few years?

Just amazing. People just blow through this.

"...oh well guess it's just time to trade everybody. I mean that's what we do here in New York right?"

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01-07-2014, 11:08 AM
  #263
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While I like haveing Girardi & Cally as Rangers I think the time has come to move on. We aren't wining anything with them this year, Cally is always hurt & both will command premium dollars this off season.

Sather has always been great with trades. I would rather he trade trade them for high picks & 3 or 4 can't miss players & or prospects.

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01-07-2014, 11:09 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Rebuild

Rebuild

Rebuild


.....why can't the New York Rangers ever contend for a few years?

Just amazing. People just blow through this.

"...oh well guess it's just time to trade everybody. I mean that's what we do here in New York right?"
It's the inherent short-sightedness of this front office. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing.

If there was a plan, it could be a perfect scenario to complete recreate the entire organization:

1) Give Torts one more year. If he fails to meet standards, he's gone. A new GM hires his own coach.

2) The the number of FAs on this team at the end of the season allows for a great opportunity to jump-start a rebuild — both in terms of trade bait and potential cap space.

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01-07-2014, 11:10 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Messier had a clause built into his contract that allowed him to re-negotiate his deal should the Rangers win a cup. They did and he wanted a better deal.

He could have negotiated that while still playing, but he threatened to hold out after the cup. He got his 3 year 18 million dollar deal after the 93-94 cup season. The only saving grace for the Rangers back then was that the 94-95 season started late due to a lockout.

He became a UFA during the summer of 97 and bolted.

There was no one year extension.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/2788


Not true, well at least the extension part.

The Rangers picked up his option in December of 1995, which is why he played 1996-97 under contract. Messier held out of the first training camp in 1995 and it was Neil Smith who threatened to stop all contract negotiations unless Messier reported.

The 1995-96 season began with the Rangers holding an option for 1997. They didnt pick up the option until mid-season in 1995-96.

Quote:
Afterward, the Rangers announced what had been long expected: They will extend Messier's contract for another season, paying the captain $6 million for 1996-97, the season after this one.

Neil Smith, the team's president and general manager, made the announcement. Early last month, Smith said chances were 99-1 that he would pick up the option. If he didn't, Messier was guaranteed a $1 million buyout and could have become a totally free agent next summer, with no ties to the Rangers and no compensation due them. With 35 points on 16 goals and 19 assists, Messier is among team leaders in scoring.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/sp...body-wins.html

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01-07-2014, 11:12 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Messier had a clause built into his contract that allowed him to re-negotiate his deal should the Rangers win a cup. They did and he wanted a better deal.

He could have negotiated that while still playing, but he threatened to hold out after the cup. He got his 3 year 18 million dollar deal after the 93-94 cup season. The only saving grace for the Rangers back then was that the 94-95 season started late due to a lockout.

He became a UFA during the summer of 97 and bolted.

There was no one year extension.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/2788
I am 99% sure that the 3rd year was a club option & they announced they were picking it up mid season.

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01-07-2014, 11:12 AM
  #267
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I believe they opened at home against Buffalo in January because of the lockout/strike and Messier was there for it.
It was Buffalo. The Rangers were flat. Messier was there. If there was no lockout,Messier was probably not going to be there. That September 2004,they had training camp before the CBA expired.

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01-07-2014, 11:15 AM
  #268
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Do you really see this team winning the East? How? We don't even have Henrik playing well. What series of plagues and planecrashes needs to occur for us to get through the Pens and the Bruins? How many arrests and assasinations would it take for us to beat any one of the teams from the West should it occur? You don't see every hand through to the river. Sometimes you have to realize your hand is not good enough to take down the pot and get out of the game. Don't get sentimental. Do what needs to be done, not what you'd like to see done. We had a good run with a good young core who grew up together but now they're grown. We need to move on. It's a shame you can't let them all finish their careers together but this is the business in a salary cap league.

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01-07-2014, 11:19 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Rebuild

Rebuild

Rebuild


.....why can't the New York Rangers ever contend for a few years?

Just amazing. People just blow through this.

"...oh well guess it's just time to trade everybody. I mean that's what we do here in New York right?"
I would not call this a rebuild. You trade these guys now to re-tool & keep the farm system going & you give the team some more trade chips come next seasons deadline if we need to acquire missing pieces for a playoff push.

I know people, myself included look at Sathers free agent signing record & get crazy with it, with regards to the cap it is just money & Dolan has plenty off it. However If you look at the overall body of Sathers work since the first lockout it's really not bad. Playoffs every year except 2010, eastern conference finals 2 years ago. I think we got a lot out of the players that the team did rebuild with & we have some guys coming up.

Trading Girardi for a first rounder & a prospect would be huge considering he wasn't even a draft pick & he has played excellent hockey for us the past 8 plus seasons. That's a huge success story.

Trade these guys & any other pending UFA that will bring a return.

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01-07-2014, 11:44 AM
  #270
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I would not play chicken with the deadline in these deals. Start the calls now. If any of these marketable guys gets hurt, you lose them for nothing.
You echo my thoughts, SML. Start looking at 'em all. Nash, Callahan, Girardi, Stralman, D. Moore, Pouiliot....

Off course, as the mandate is to win the Cup every year, I am sure that Sather is scouring who he can bring in for Nash to play with.
Quote:
Do you really see this team winning the East? How?
Sums it up. That and the core/blue of the team that Torts has build has been largely dismantled. Cash in the chips now and add to what core players you have identified.

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01-07-2014, 11:47 AM
  #271
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Need to keep Callahan, case closed. Moving on.

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01-07-2014, 11:50 AM
  #272
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Need to keep Callahan, case closed.
Why? You do not think that they could be just as mediocre without him?

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01-07-2014, 11:52 AM
  #273
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Why? You do not think that they could be just as mediocre without him?
I'm a huge Callahan fan. But by no means is he a "sign-at-all-costs" guy.

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01-07-2014, 11:56 AM
  #274
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In order to even retool and have some success out of it, they have to pick a direction and stick with it.

Say they retool and things go surprisingly well next season and they look to be a top 4-5 team in the east, do they start renting and signing the "put them over the top" ufas again?

It has to be a commitment for a couple years with a plan. They have to see a distant future team full of players who play the style of game they are looking to get to and acquire players who fit into that style.

If they want a puck possession team who can come up ice, pass and skate through the neutral zone, they need to get those players.

If they want a grinding, hard working team, get those players.

Having half from each group leads them looking like they do, like they are playing two different styles where the team as a whole just does not look like they know exactly where to be or what they are supposed to be doing.

Sure they can have some exceptions, I would even like it if they did as it adds another angle to the team when the main idea is not working, but in general, they should be looking for a specific player type and focusing on adding them to the players they already have that fit that style.

Once they have those player, or at least enough of them, any coach is most likely going to play to their strength or at least stumble upon it.

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01-07-2014, 12:00 PM
  #275
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Need to keep Callahan, case closed. Moving on.
Compelling argument. I for one am convinced.

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