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Montreal Evenstrength better than San Jose

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01-22-2007, 03:41 AM
  #1
LesHabsRock
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Montreal Evenstrength better than San Jose

I keep hearing about the criticism of our Habs being so terrible 5 on 5 and the fact they don't score much evenstrength and that they rely too much on Special teams. Why is it ok for San Jose and Anaheim not to be criticized when they're worse and slightly better, respectively. Here are some stats I have compiled courtesy of nhl.com:

Montreal Evenstrength Goals - 95 PPG - 51 Total Goals - 146 GP - 49
San Jose Evenstrength Goals - 86 PPG - 63 Total Goals - 149 GP - 48
Anaheim Evenstrength Goals - 111 PPG - 56 Total Goals - 167 GP - 50

Montreal has scored 9 more evenstrength goals than the mighty Sharks, yet why don't the Sharks get criticized for relying too much on their PP who's rank is 1st overall. San Jose has only scored 3 more goals overall than the Habs.

Anaheim also has more PP goals than the Habs, but Montreal has a higher percentage. Anaheim has 16 more evenstrength goals than the Habs which really isn't that far off considering they're arguably the league's best this year.

Any thoughts?

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01-22-2007, 04:21 AM
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Hackett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
I keep hearing about the criticism of our Habs being so terrible 5 on 5 and the fact they don't score much evenstrength and that they rely too much on Special teams. Why is it ok for San Jose and Anaheim not to be criticized when they're worse and slightly better, respectively. Here are some stats I have compiled courtesy of nhl.com:

Montreal Evenstrength Goals - 95 PPG - 51 Total Goals - 146 GP - 49
San Jose Evenstrength Goals - 86 PPG - 63 Total Goals - 149 GP - 48
Anaheim Evenstrength Goals - 111 PPG - 56 Total Goals - 167 GP - 50

Montreal has scored 9 more evenstrength goals than the mighty Sharks, yet why don't the Sharks get criticized for relying too much on their PP who's rank is 1st overall. San Jose has only scored 3 more goals overall than the Habs.

Anaheim also has more PP goals than the Habs, but Montreal has a higher percentage. Anaheim has 16 more evenstrength goals than the Habs which really isn't that far off considering they're arguably the league's best this year.

Any thoughts?

Why dont they get crticized?

Anaheim has won 2 of their last 10 games. I find it hard to believe that there is no criticizing going on.

San Jose are 16 games over 500 so there is not alot to criticize. The other thing with the sharks that you have overlooked is that they have allowed 30 goals less than montreal which is quite substantial. Infact, they have allowed the least amount of goals in the league That's an indication that they aren't solely relying on special teams.

Montreal got into their extended slump at about the same time that the special teams started going into a downward spiral.

I'm just trying to say that special teams is a big thing, but its not the only thing. Montreal needs to improve other parts of their game so that they dont rely on the special teams so heavily. This will help avoid going on another extended slump.

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01-22-2007, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
I keep hearing about the criticism of our Habs being so terrible 5 on 5 and the fact they don't score much evenstrength and that they rely too much on Special teams. Why is it ok for San Jose and Anaheim not to be criticized when they're worse and slightly better, respectively. Here are some stats I have compiled courtesy of nhl.com:

Montreal Evenstrength Goals - 95 PPG - 51 Total Goals - 146 GP - 49
San Jose Evenstrength Goals - 86 PPG - 63 Total Goals - 149 GP - 48
Anaheim Evenstrength Goals - 111 PPG - 56 Total Goals - 167 GP - 50

Montreal has scored 9 more evenstrength goals than the mighty Sharks, yet why don't the Sharks get criticized for relying too much on their PP who's rank is 1st overall. San Jose has only scored 3 more goals overall than the Habs.

Anaheim also has more PP goals than the Habs, but Montreal has a higher percentage. Anaheim has 16 more evenstrength goals than the Habs which really isn't that far off considering they're arguably the league's best this year.

Any thoughts?
Your numbers aren't right.

The Habs have 142 goals and only 70 were scored 5-on-5 with 92 against. (You forgot about SH and EN)

Our -22 5-on-5 puts us at 4th worst in the league.

The Ducks are +17 and the Sharks are +3.

Critisism is justified.

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01-22-2007, 07:56 AM
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I'd be curious to know how many minutes we've actually spent 5 on 5 given that we take so many penalties and then compare the numbers (%).

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01-22-2007, 08:21 AM
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montreal need another puck moving defenceman to smoothly bring the puck up to the opponents zone and start the play...they always just launch the puck up and hope one of their players gets it

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01-22-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber View Post
Your numbers aren't right.

The Habs have 142 goals and only 70 were scored 5-on-5 with 92 against. (You forgot about SH and EN)

Our -22 5-on-5 puts us at 4th worst in the league.

The Ducks are +17 and the Sharks are +3.

Critisism is justified.
Exactly. If your going to use stats....use proper numbers. If Gainey and Carbo say the team was standing on a reverse pyramid because of our crappy 5 on 5 play it should be enough for you to consider.

MTL: 70 goals for 92 goals against
-22

SJ: 74 goals for 71 goals agaisnt
+3

That's a difference of 25 goals. Considering the ammount of one goal games...that's quite a few wins.


Last edited by znk: 01-22-2007 at 09:13 AM.
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01-22-2007, 10:17 AM
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Oh well. Good try, Leshabsrock.

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01-22-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie View Post
I'd be curious to know how many minutes we've actually spent 5 on 5 given that we take so many penalties and then compare the numbers (%).
I'm almost happy with the fact that we play so little 5 on 5. If we're -22 with so little 5 on 5, imagine if played most of our games 5 on 5.

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01-22-2007, 10:41 AM
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You also have to remember that the western conference plays a more defensive style the eastern conference now. They score less goals out west now when before the lockout, it was the other way around in style of play.

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01-22-2007, 12:00 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Why dont they get crticized?

Anaheim has won 2 of their last 10 games. I find it hard to believe that there is no criticizing going on.

San Jose are 16 games over 500 so there is not alot to criticize. The other thing with the sharks that you have overlooked is that they have allowed 30 goals less than montreal which is quite substantial. Infact, they have allowed the least amount of goals in the league That's an indication that they aren't solely relying on special teams.

Montreal got into their extended slump at about the same time that the special teams started going into a downward spiral.

I'm just trying to say that special teams is a big thing, but its not the only thing. Montreal needs to improve other parts of their game so that they dont rely on the special teams so heavily. This will help avoid going on another extended slump.

You're right. It was late and I'd just arrived home from work. I was tired and overlooked the other goals like Shorthanded and empty netters. Darn.

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01-22-2007, 12:02 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber View Post
Your numbers aren't right.

The Habs have 142 goals and only 70 were scored 5-on-5 with 92 against. (You forgot about SH and EN)

Our -22 5-on-5 puts us at 4th worst in the league.

The Ducks are +17 and the Sharks are +3.

Critisism is justified.
How many Shorthanded and Empty Netters did SJ and ANA accumulate...Can you kindly grab those stats for us

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01-22-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
How many Shorthanded and Empty Netters did SJ and ANA accumulate...Can you kindly grab those stats for us
Ducks & Sharks - 3 SH 5 EN

Taking a quick glance at teams currently in the playoffs, almost everyone is on the plus side except for a couple teams, but they are at least close to even. We are by far the worst 5-on-5 team in a playoff race.

But we say, oh well, I guess it's good we're on the PP lots. Wrong. We've had 221 PP opportunities, 3rd worst in the league. And in PP chances for vs against, we're a -46. Again 3rd worst in the league.

Looking at these stats it's amazing we are where we're at. We're terrible 5-on-5, and we're terrible at drawing penalties. You've got to know Carbo and the coaching staff will have to be working on this in the 2nd half.

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01-22-2007, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Habber View Post
Looking at these stats it's amazing we are where we're at. We're terrible 5-on-5, and we're terrible at drawing penalties.
I like to imagine that we are great at drawing penalties, it's just the refs that are really bad at calling them.

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01-22-2007, 02:48 PM
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They dont get critisized because theyre not Canadian.

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01-22-2007, 02:49 PM
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znk
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
They dont get critisized because theyre not Canadian.
I suggest you read the follow up posts...they give a real answer.

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01-22-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shimy1221 View Post
montreal need another puck moving defenceman to smoothly bring the puck up to the opponents zone and start the play...they always just launch the puck up and hope one of their players gets it
Streit can do that .

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01-22-2007, 04:06 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by Habber View Post
Ducks & Sharks - 3 SH 5 EN

Taking a quick glance at teams currently in the playoffs, almost everyone is on the plus side except for a couple teams, but they are at least close to even. We are by far the worst 5-on-5 team in a playoff race.

But we say, oh well, I guess it's good we're on the PP lots. Wrong. We've had 221 PP opportunities, 3rd worst in the league. And in PP chances for vs against, we're a -46. Again 3rd worst in the league.

Looking at these stats it's amazing we are where we're at. We're terrible 5-on-5, and we're terrible at drawing penalties. You've got to know Carbo and the coaching staff will have to be working on this in the 2nd half.
5 on 5 play has been better as of late. They scored 2 evenstrength and 2 PP goals vs Buffalo, and 1 PP goal and 3 evenstrength vs Atlanta.

You're also forgetting other reasons why the Habs are so successful this year. The PK and goaltending come to mind. The PK has been top 3 all year as well as the PP. When you have amongst the best in PP, PK, and goaltending chances are you'll be a pretty good team.

The fact the Habs have had fewer PP opportunities makes their PP even more impressive as they haven't needed many PP's to capitalize on their chances hence their PP percentage being where it is.

I look at the standings and I am not surprised to see where the Habs are. Heck, the Habs have two players in the All Star game.

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Old
01-22-2007, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
I keep hearing about the criticism of our Habs being so terrible 5 on 5 Any thoughts?
Its certainly is warranted dont you think? The Habs arent very good five on five its as simple as that

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