HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2014, 04:11 PM
  #326
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,168
vCash: 500
if the rangers traded cally and girardi and bought out richards, id give Thornton a 2 year deal at whatever the max dollars allowable are.

he wouldnt take it, but it would be tough to resist.

we'd have the space, and he'd help solidify a roster spot giving our newly acquired assets some time to develop.

Inferno is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:13 PM
  #327
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,487
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
if the rangers traded cally and girardi and bought out richards, id give Thornton a 2 year deal at whatever the max dollars allowable are.
Like $14 million?

__________________


Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Thirty One is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:15 PM
  #328
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,487
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Yes, eight teams offered a bag of pucks. Boyle will not bring any kind of return; you're better off just letting him walk at the end of the year.
How do you set notifications when a keyword is posted?

Thirty One is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:21 PM
  #329
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
it's about the state of this franchise.
Tell me, does that state we're in rhyme with Vanek?

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:22 PM
  #330
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,555
vCash: 500
I wish there was a way to block my phone from going to the Trade board.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:22 PM
  #331
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
if the rangers traded cally and girardi and bought out richards, id give Thornton a 2 year deal at whatever the max dollars allowable are.

he wouldnt take it, but it would be tough to resist.

we'd have the space, and he'd help solidify a roster spot giving our newly acquired assets some time to develop.
Sather is that you? We've been "solidifying roster spots" since Free Agency came into being in hockey. What we really do is fill holes that should go to young guys because the only way they get better is to play. The buzzwords "mentoring" and "leadership" come to mind. There's another phrase that's inappropriate, but what you'd accuse a buddy of if he starts chatting up a girl you're interested in. Why would you offer this? If he took big money to come here, it means money means more than winning. Why would you want a guy like that on your team?

SML is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:25 PM
  #332
BlueLooksGood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
If Thornton's available over the summer, can Sather resist signing him?

...and is that a bad thing?
Most UFAs are bad signings. They will be overpaid to be their 25 year old version during their thirties. It is a losing gamble.

The circumstances where this is acceptable are the following.
1) UFA takes a steep discount
2) UFA takes a short term deal (think Gaborik)
3) UFA puts/keeps his team in SC contention in the near future.
4) UFA's majority contract years are in his twenties.

Such circumstances are a rarity.

BlueLooksGood is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:25 PM
  #333
frisland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
This team has had so few draft picks the last few years, if you get offered a 5th for boyle I'd take it.
However, i think he's worth a bit more than that, though not a penny more than the $1.7 he's making this year.

frisland is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:26 PM
  #334
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I wish there was a way to block my phone from going to the Trade board.
I thought Sbisa and Maroon was too generous to pass up.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:28 PM
  #335
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,743
vCash: 500
Moving onto the off-season, would anyone be interested in Matt Greene? I know he has had some injury concerns the past few years, but if they sign him to a show-me deal and say he plays 50 games (which would be a good thing), wouldn't that be a good thing to allow a younger player to get their feet wet and have 50 games of a nasty presence on the back-end?

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:28 PM
  #336
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
if the rangers traded cally and girardi and bought out richards, id give Thornton a 2 year deal at whatever the max dollars allowable are.

he wouldnt take it, but it would be tough to resist.

we'd have the space, and he'd help solidify a roster spot giving our newly acquired assets some time to develop.
If the Rangers trade Cally and Girardi, they better also trade guys like Brass and try to hit it big in an upcoming draft. I'd be a little upset if they went for Joe.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:31 PM
  #337
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I thought Sbisa and Maroon was too generous to pass up.
Yes, meanwhile half of them are begging for Sbisa to be gone. Solid offer.

__________________

Disintegrated MCL
rip
Ail is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:32 PM
  #338
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
That's the point: Wouldn't you rather have Callahan at a similar contract, rather than the majority of those players? Because you'll be looking at players like that come next summer: Dany Heatley at $6M/5 years; Tommy Vanek at $7.5M for 7 years; Hemsky at $6M for 5 seasons...and those numbers might be too conservative...players usually get more than people think.
Maybe I didn't treat you
Quite as good as I should have
Maybe I didn't love you
Quite as often as I could have
Little things I should have said and done
I just never took the time

You were always on my mind
(You were always on my mind)
You were always on my mind

Ola is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:45 PM
  #339
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,785
vCash: 500
It's going to be very hard to get a hold of good players in the coming years. It's a core that wins a cup. Cally and Girardi isn't good enough to form that core, but they can be a part of it. Like Dustin Brown in LA (Cally). Like Seidenberg (Girardi).

The players mentioned being available in deals for these two are just long shots of becoming part of a core on a Cup winning core. They can become complimentary players, but I don't at all worry about filling those type of holes. We have complimentary players. It's the core that is hard to put in place and Kukhlachev / J Morrow / K Palmieri / Vatanem are just real long shots to become future parts of such Cup winning core.

It's problematic if we we tie up all money in a core that doesn't have it.

It's not good asset management to "not" deal G / Cally if they can bring back a part we knew would count. That we really can expect to become a part of a core with Cup potential.

So we got some real tough decisions to make. I definitely don't believe that it's a given that we should dump these two, nor buy out BR out.

I am definitely very confused behind the thinking to trade BOTH Cally and Girardi WHILE buying out BR. The math just don't add up with that option. We open up three majors holes on the roster and get nothing in return that we can expect to replace them with WHILE the UFA market is bare. Trust me, the problem in the coming 3 years will not be to have room to fill 3-4 core roles on a roster, it will be to find those 3-4 pieces, let alone 1-2 pieces. Avg C-tier prospects and a late 1st or two gives you maybe a ten percent chance to find a player like that, which might help you in 3-6 years.

Ola is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:51 PM
  #340
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Maybe I didn't treat you
Quite as good as I should have
Maybe I didn't love you
Quite as often as I could have
Little things I should have said and done
I just never took the time

You were always on my mind
(You were always on my mind)
You were always on my mind
I can confirm these are not Wu-Tang lyrics.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:53 PM
  #341
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,487
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Like $14 million?
If Thornton were offered a $28 million / 2 year deal, he wouldn't turn it down. What would he turn it down for: a $28 million / 4 year deal?

Thirty One is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:54 PM
  #342
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,168
vCash: 500
rangers have developed kreider, stepan, mcdonagh, callahan, lundqvist, hagelin, girardi, staal, and dominic moore from their farm system..not to mention guys like talbot, dubinsky, anisimov, etc, etc, etc.

we do a fine job of developing kids who deserve to play.

im not concerned with that.

giving thornton a 2 year deal stops you from FORCING a kid to play.

thats what happens when you say, oh, we'll just give that spot to a kid...and then when theres no kid to play, youre screwed and pretty much have to force him to play when hes not ready.

if you lose richards, callahan, and girardi, youre going to be pretty much guaranteeing a kid or 2, or 3 a roster spot, and you can almost guarantee at least 1 will not be ready for that spot.

thats a great way to ruin prospects...just ask the thrashers, blue jackets, islanders, etc on that.

Inferno is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:57 PM
  #343
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,487
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
rangers have developed kreider, stepan, mcdonagh, callahan, lundqvist, hagelin, girardi, staal, and dominic moore from their farm system..not to mention guys like talbot, dubinsky, anisimov, etc, etc, etc.

we do a fine job of developing kids who deserve to play.

im not concerned with that.

giving thornton a 2 year deal stops you from FORCING a kid to play.

thats what happens when you say, oh, we'll just give that spot to a kid...and then when theres no kid to play, youre screwed and pretty much have to force him to play when hes not ready.

if you lose richards, callahan, and girardi, youre going to be pretty much guaranteeing a kid or 2, or 3 a roster spot, and you can almost guarantee at least 1 will not be ready for that spot.

thats a great way to ruin prospects...just ask the thrashers, blue jackets, islanders, etc on that.
I fully agree. But I don't think it would need to be the maximum. That would make it tougher to trade him at the end of his contract.

Thirty One is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:57 PM
  #344
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If Thornton were offered a $28 million / 2 year deal, he wouldn't turn it down. What would he turn it down for: a $28 million / 4 year deal?
yeah, or you can go with something like 21 mil over 2 years...someone will run the numbers im sure, but if you could go with something like...i dunno...

Pouliot - Thornton - Nash
Kreider - Stepan - MZA
Hagelin - Brassard - Miller

Some 4th line that can give you good minutes

I don't see the problem.

especially if that nets you back 2 or 3 great prospects.

Inferno is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 04:58 PM
  #345
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You want to keep the same team and the same problems. You're afraid of change. Keeping these guys and giving them major commitments insures the status quo.

Its a business for the player and the team. These players have no issues about leaving for more money so why should the fans have blind loyalty to these players.

Then you blame the coach. Its always the coach.

Somehow the Rangers will survive the losses of Girardi and Callahan.
This^, in response to DeThomas concerns summarized at
Quote:
Losing either, or both, would represent an immediate step back, of that there is no doubt. But it is always worthwhile to take one step back in order to take two or three steps forward.
If this were the prior Cally contract, that much less wear and tear, and that much cheaper, I'd be inclined to say let's think twice.

But if indeed we can get equivalent of 2 top prospects and a pick EACH as a rental, both Cally and Danny Boy should be dealt.

bernmeister is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 05:00 PM
  #346
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Fact. But being 1/2 way there with Callahan does nothing but keep them mediocre. Losing Callahan means they most likely bottom out, don't overpay him via the length of the contract or the amount/season and return some very solid assets at the deadline.
Fact. We are WAY to good to bottom out to be somewhat sure to get a top 3-4 pick.

There is so much talk about complete rebuild and what. Not now. It's an absurd idea to propose, right now. Dumping Kreider, McD, Hank just resigned 8 y NMC. Etc etc etc.

We are not bottoming out right now.

Ola is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 05:05 PM
  #347
Raspewtin
Early To The Party
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Howard Beach, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,041
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Moving onto the off-season, would anyone be interested in Matt Greene? I know he has had some injury concerns the past few years, but if they sign him to a show-me deal and say he plays 50 games (which would be a good thing), wouldn't that be a good thing to allow a younger player to get their feet wet and have 50 games of a nasty presence on the back-end?
He'll be overpaid. If not, I wouldn't mind taking him on a short deal.

I can see him making 3 years/3 mill per even though he's a bottom pairer because toofness.

__________________
Raspewtin is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 05:08 PM
  #348
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I can confirm these are not Wu-Tang lyrics.
No it's Pet Shop Boys.

Ola is offline  
Old
01-07-2014, 05:11 PM
  #349
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,487
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Dumping Kreider, McD, Hank just resigned 8 y NMC. Etc etc etc.
Who is suggesting this?

Thirty One is online now  
Old
01-07-2014, 05:12 PM
  #350
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,785
vCash: 500
The taking two or three steps back is darn easy.

How do you take four five steps forward in the coming years? Nobody is giving even a remotely plausible scenario for how to accomplish that in four five years.

Ola is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.