1. I'm not saying he should replace Renny...neccessarily
Just wondering what you guys think he would do for a team as a coach. Great leader..lots of cred...tough...intelligent...
obviously there is more to coaching than just those qualities...but Mark is very vocal about how great it was being a young player in Edmonton under Sather....all the motivational seminars....rounding of the character...inside the game/outside the game
would he be good for a young team...I think perhaps so
No. The all-time great players, guys who were superstars and became Hall of Famers, these guys usually don't make very good head coaches. A good head coach is more likely to be a more average player, maybe a mucker and grinder, who had to really study the game to have a chance because he couldn't get by on skill alone. Lemaire is an exception, but there aren't too many of them.
He needs to get his feet wet in the AHL or as an assistant here before I even think of saying "maybe".
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB "Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
Coaching is way mre than win one for the gipper speeches and staring people down. Those things worked for Messier because after that, he went out and took care of business on the ice. How many "when I was playing" speeches do you think it would take for the players to tune him out? Especially a bunch of pass happy Euro's like we have here? It would be one thing if this were a room full of western canadian kids who grew up idolizing Mark. It's not. It's a bunch of guys who are older, most of whom played against him, and that respect/fear level isn't there. We're in a situation where a PROFESSIONAL COACH, a guy who has made coaching his life's work, who has dealt with all kinds of personalities and playing styles, can't get these guys to change their thinking. Brendan Shanahan, who is as accomplished a player as there is skating in the league right now, is suiting up next to these guys, and he can't get through to them either. Coaching has to do with X's and O's, not being faster, stronger, or meaner. Messier was a great player. Most great players do not make great coaches. This team needs to separate itself from #11 and get out of his shadow, not get further into it.
It's unknown, but if you want to talk about a former Ranger great who might look great behind the bench one of these days... what about Richter? He's already doing some assistant coaching at Yale while working on his own personal educational goals.
And this is our problem... Renney is to Jagr what Roger Nielson was to Messier. Players know that if management has to pick between Renney and Jagr, The #68 jersey is still going to be hanging in the lockerroom at MSG. So his credibility is shot. Which in itself may be enough to get him fired. The coach has to run the team, no matter how good the players are. Unfortunatley, #11 set a great precedent of the tail wagging the dog around here. Once the inmates are running the asylum, there's no going back. It just may be the year we have to blow it all up because we know we need Jagr to be happy in order to have it worth him being here. If Renney gets fired and they bring in a guy who lays the smackdown on everyone and regains control, there's a good chance Jagr's not going to be down with the plan. The alternative is to let Jagr have his way with whatever puppet we put in there, which as we can see, is not working.
I think Messier was a great player and leader and don't think he was the problem with certain Ranger teams.
I don't think Messier would make a good coach.
I've never been a big fan of superstar coaches mainly because guys with that kind of skill seem to have a really hard time understanding why certain guys can't do something. Not that they didn't work hard or that they don't understand the game, but there is a certain disconnect there that in any sport is near impossible to overcome.
Messier became a liability on the ice toward the end of his stay, I could hardly bear to watch him make a pass some time for fear of who it went to. That said, he was an incredible player, way more good than bad. Messier was one of the most dominating players I've ever seen, and that's because he had the physical game and the mental game down cold. But that was on the ice with hockey stick in his hands, so it's really hard to say what he would do behind the bench, but with no track record, it would be a bad gamble.
I would really like to see Graves somewhere in the coaching staff. Graves was an excellent postional hockey player, he knows how to play the ice, and he isn't as emotional as Mess.
But, since there's something fundamentally flawed with this organization's player development system (hint, it's not the scouts), there is none of the immediacy and simplicity of action that other teams practice in their player development. So, no matter who a new coach candidate is, and I don't think it should be Mess, they better be good at asserting themselve to management, or don't even bother sending Renney off to basket-weaving school.
He would need to put in time as an assistant, and then work his way up after a few seasons of wins with an AHL team, then on to an NHL team, and then maybe give real coaching a shot, (he's a long way off from headcoach material right now), GM is another story.
And this is our problem... Renney is to Jagr what Roger Nielson was to Messier. Players know that if management has to pick between Renney and Jagr, The #68 jersey is still going to be hanging in the lockerroom at MSG. So his credibility is shot. .
funny the ANSWER to that problem in 93 is actually out there and available right now as well