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Old
01-08-2014, 07:41 AM
  #1
Alchemy
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Brayden Schenn

What's his future here? Do you see him getting traded or signed? Personally I believe we should lock him up and keep him at center. I'm starting to see signs that his overall game is getting better and he is one of the best finishers on the team. Something the flyers lack.

Resign Schenn and let Downie walk. I know Downie is a popular player around here but I don't think the flyers need to shell out big bucks to this guy. His wreckless style isn't worth a long contract. Personally the flyers need to keep their main nucleus intact which Schenn is a part of.

For the next 5 years down the middle should be Giroux-Schenn-Couts. With his game coming on lately I have to give him props. I've always been a critic.

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01-08-2014, 07:49 AM
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No reason to trade him unless it is for something of great value (i.e. franchise defenseman). I wouldn't shop him, but like any player, if someone comes calling about him, you gotta listen.

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01-08-2014, 07:53 AM
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No reason to trade him unless it is for something of great value (i.e. franchise defenseman). I wouldn't shop him, but like any player, if someone comes calling about him, you gotta listen.
This

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01-08-2014, 08:15 AM
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Needs to play like this more consistently if he wants to become a good 2nd line center. He has some quality aspects to his game.

Depending on Downie's price, I'd like to resign him. I don't prefer keeping him at the expense of Schenn though. With the cap to go up, at forward they could roll a very solid 4 lines next season and long term.

Lecavalier-Giroux-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Hartnell
Read-Couturier-Downie
Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo

I'd like to see Cousins on that 4th line whenever he's ready.

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01-08-2014, 08:18 AM
  #5
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I actually let Downie walk next year regardless. Yes. he had some chemistry with Couts, but is that enough to bring him back?? That 4 million(maybe even more) he is demanding could go towards a first line winger(Vanek or trade.) I like Raffl, but if you get Giroux another player who has elite speed and elite puck skills, he will reap the benefits ten fold.

Schenn needs to stay as the second line center. I have always been a defender of his, he gets a lot of hate around here at times. He is still extremely young, and is still developing. He might even hit 55 points this year. He has the potential once he fills out to probably max out one year at around 60-70 points getting 1st unit powerplay time. He plays the way the Flyers like and has skill, which we desperately need.

My lines next year

Vanek(or trade)-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couts-Vinny
Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo/Rosehill/whoever

Weber-Pietrangelo
Suter-Coburn
Streit-Grossmann

Mason
Brian Elliot/the Monster/just someone who can play in spell of Mason and we don't have to worry

Stanley cup right there! Also don't worry how we got all those defenders, my top 4 lines are actually what I think we head into the season next year like.


Last edited by Prongo: 01-08-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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Old
01-08-2014, 08:27 AM
  #6
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Haha, was literally about to make a Brayden Schenn thread:

I know Brayden has not reached pretty much everyone's expectations, including mine, since we got him, goes missing for stretches, plays within himself physically seemingly at times, appears to have an average IQ etc.

But the fact he has been producing last year and this cannot be denied: (his first year here was not really indicative of his ability, with injury, linemates, minutes etc.)

90GP, 19G, 34A, 53P (0.59PPG, 48 point pace)

At the end of last year I looked into his standing in terms of the minutes he played (15.29 EV&PP per game) amongst NHLers (sub 16 EV & PP):

Kadri (15.53): 44 points
Marchand (15.41): 36 points
Stewart (15.49): 36 points
Simmonds (15.39): 32 points
Mike Richards (15.14): 32 points
Yakupov (14.33): 31 points
Eller (13.21): 30 points
Conacher (13.58): 29 points
Gallagher (13.51): 29 points
Kopecky (15.48): 27 points
Letestu (14.17): 27 points
Setoguchi (14.26): 27 points
Saad (15.35): 27 points
Galchenyuk (12.19): 27 points
Koivu (15.31): 27 points
Cullen (14.33): 27 points
Schenn (15.29):26 points
Brunner (15.35): 26 points
Berglund (15.28): 25 points
Morrow (14.49): 25 points
Selanne (15.40): 24 points
Eakin (13.21): 24 points
Cogliano (13.46): 23 points
Kulemin (14.32): 23 points
Stajan (15.11): 23 points

This year (15.40 EV&PP per game):

Schwartz (15.24): 32 points
Reilly Smith (14.27): 32 points
Bonino (14.52): 32 points
Jokinen (14.54): 32 points
Saad (15.34): 31 points
Roy (13.36): 29 points
Mike Richards (15.46): 28 points
Schenn (15.40): 27 points
Cogliano (13.54): 27 points
Tarasenko (14.32): 26 points
Hertl (15.19): 25 points
Craig Smith (15.10): 25 points
Ward (14.38): 24 points
Penner (15.31): 24 points
Frolik (14.40): 24 points
Stewart (13.41): 23 points
Galchenyuk (14.41): 23 points
Versteeg (14.50~): 23 points
Scheifele (15.57): 23 points
Brassard (15.37): 23 points
Ryder (15.51): 22 points
Niederreiter (14.17): 22 points
Nichushkin (15.27): 22 points
Wingels (14.36): 22 points
Chiasson (15.22): 22 points

So 17th last year and 8th this year amongst player who play sub 16 EV & PP. Out of ~200 forwards a year who play a significant number of games and average less than 16 E & PP per game. And most of the guys in these lists (top 25) are pretty good players.

Ofc PPG would change this slightly, but he is still doing pretty well in point production and very well when considering his TOI.

I think it is actually a shame he always seem to look far better at centre... as I reckon he would be a 25-30 goal, 60 point winger with G if he played as well at LW.

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01-08-2014, 08:34 AM
  #7
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Still think he is the odd man out. If he can be moved to significantly upgrade the defense, the flyers should definitely consider it. Much better at center than wing which is actually good since there are a lot of teams desperate for centers.

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01-08-2014, 08:41 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prongo View Post
i actually let downie walk next year regardless. Yes. He had some chemistry with couts, but is that enough to bring him back?? That 4 million(maybe even more) he is demanding could go towards a first line winger(vanek or trade.) i like raffl, but if you get giroux another player who has elite speed and elite puck skills, he will reap the benefits ten fold.

Schenn needs to stay as the second line center. I have always been a defender of his, he gets a lot of hate around here at times. He is still extremely young, and is still developing. He might even hit 55 points this year. He has the potential once he fills out to probably max out one year at around 60-70 points getting 1st unit powerplay time. He plays the way the flyers like and has skill, which we desperately need.

My lines next year

vanek(or trade)-giroux-voracek
hartnell-schenn-simmonds
read-couts-vinny
raffl-laughton-rinaldo/rosehill/whoever

weber-pietrangelo
suter-coburn
streit-grossmann


mason
brian elliot/the monster/just someone who can play in spell of mason and we don't have to worry

stanley cup right there! Also don't worry how we got all those defenders, my top 4 lines are actually what i think we head into the season next year like.
o rly

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01-08-2014, 08:45 AM
  #9
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In the previous B Schenn trade I noted how we should be patient with him and see how he develops under Berube the rest of this season and into next season but yeah not necessarily opposed to using him as a trading chip to upgrade. However, I do think he will have a pretty productive career with more seasoning. I always thought he was developing just fine and Appleyard's stats kind of show it. Not crazy about the dry spells especially when his physical game is not as pronounced... but I do think he is more involved in that aspect as a center...

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01-08-2014, 08:47 AM
  #10
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Still think he is the odd man out. If he can be moved to significantly upgrade the defense, the flyers should definitely consider it. Much better at center than wing which is actually good since there are a lot of teams desperate for centers.
I don't see them moving him until they know for sure what both Laughton and Couturier are going to be long term. If Laughton can come in and prove that he's capable of holding down the third line spot, and if Couturier solidifies himself as a number two centerman, then I could see him being moved. He's really at his best at the center position. And quite frankly, he's been better than Vinny on that second line, as Vinny's defensive play is a liability at this point. Schenn has been much better in that regard, and their offense is just about a wash.

I think I've just come to accept that Schenn is going to look invisible for about 90% of the game. The other 10% of the time he's producing points. As long as he can pot 25-30 a year, pop in another 25-30 assists, and continue to be at least average defensively, I think he can be a solid number two center for a long time.

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01-08-2014, 08:52 AM
  #11
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I don't want him traded but I have a gut feeling that he gets moved in the next couple years. I think they may see him as a guy that they could use in a package to get a #1 or potential #1 defenseman back without losing a ton of production. I think they may think Couts is ready to move into a second line role and that Laughton may be ready to center the third line. To make the kind of move that lands a top defender, teams are going to want a young player back. Laughton doesn't hold the value and I think Couts is all but untouchable right now. Just a gut feeling.

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01-08-2014, 10:08 AM
  #12
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The only thing holding me back from saying he will be a great player in the future is that... I cant really say one thing is what he is best in. Like he has average to above average overall skill.... Which isnt bad but I do think would prohibit him. The one thing that i think is is best attribute (other than being in the right place at right time) is his shot. Right now i have that at above average but not great. Now if he worked on it and continued to improve it then he has a good chance. Overall though... Inno. There is something about him that rings 2nd/3rd (mostly 2nd) line for life. Obviously being a great 2nd liner isnt bad but still....

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01-08-2014, 11:14 AM
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The only thing holding me back from saying he will be a great player in the future is that... I cant really say one thing is what he is best in. Like he has average to above average overall skill.... Which isnt bad but I do think would prohibit him. The one thing that i think is is best attribute (other than being in the right place at right time) is his shot. Right now i have that at above average but not great. Now if he worked on it and continued to improve it then he has a good chance. Overall though... Inno. There is something about him that rings 2nd/3rd (mostly 2nd) line for life. Obviously being a great 2nd liner isnt bad but still....
He's been producing at a 2nd liner pace last yr and this while getting 3rd line minutes and 2nd pp duties. He's not a 3rd liner unless he regresses. The opposite is more then likely true considering his age. He's on pace for 51 pts this yr and was on pace for 45 last season, if he improves even a bit and starts putting up around 60 pts that makes him a legit first liner. 70+ is good for top 25 in scoring most yrs. My point is he's more 1st/2nd line then he is 2nd/3rd line material.

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01-08-2014, 11:20 AM
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Gettin Giroux a natural goal scorer & sliding Voracek down to play with Schenn to utilize his shot more while still playing the center ice position would be great for all parties involved.

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01-08-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
My lines next year

Vanek(or trade)-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couts-Vinny
Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo/Rosehill/whoever

Weber-Pietrangelo
Suter-Coburn
Streit-Grossmann

Mason
Brian Elliot/the Monster/just someone who can play in spell of Mason and we don't have to worry
What, no Bobby Ryan, Prongo? You're slipping, man.

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01-08-2014, 11:52 AM
  #16
Psuhockey
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
He's been producing at a 2nd liner pace last yr and this while getting 3rd line minutes and 2nd pp duties.
His minutes won't be going up much if he doesn't switch to left wing. Giroux will get the majority offensive minutes at center and Couturier will get the majority of defensive minutes. He will be another JVR in that his production will go up once he is one a different team getting more minutes.

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01-08-2014, 12:07 PM
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What, no Bobby Ryan, Prongo? You're slipping, man.
I feel some people don't like my love for the man. I try to temper it until we lose, then he would have been the reason we would have won.

I actually think the Flyers might make a play for him honestly. Not at the deadline but at the draft.

The last few drafts

2013-New Jersey host the draft- Trades #9 pick for Cory "overrated" Schnieder
2012-Pittsburgh host the draft-Trades Jordan Stall for Sutter, Dumoulin,8th overall.
2011-Minnesota host the draft-stupid dumbies didn't do a trade
2010-Los Angeles hosts the draft- They traded up to draft Forbort!! LOOLOLOL

Common theme, especially in the past few years, the host team has been making big trades. I hope the Flyers continue this trend, especially if they are able to get a big named defender.

My teams to watch for would be Nashville(hehe), Winnipeg(I hate you Big Buff), Edmonton(not for a defender), Ottawa(BOBBY RYAN!!!!), Islanders(Lesser deal for Vaneks rights) Now, none of this happens and we probably draft a stud forward.

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01-08-2014, 12:07 PM
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His minutes won't be going up much if he doesn't switch to left wing. Giroux will get the majority offensive minutes at center and Couturier will get the majority of defensive minutes. He will be another JVR in that his production will go up once he is one a different team getting more minutes.
I'm not sure why they don't try him with Giroux. He may not produce as much at LW, but playing with Giroux could go a long way with helping that.

If he somehow turned out to be the 30+ goal scorer we need that'd be amazing. He's on pace for 20 without playing consistently with any real playmakers. Next year on Giroux's wing could be a break out year for him. Might as well try it now.

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01-08-2014, 12:11 PM
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Brayden needs to learn to bring the intensity every night, as do a lot of young players. It seems like the only time he's hitting is during 'big' games, like against Chicago or Pittsburgh.

I'm still not sold on keeping him at center. With Couts here now, and Laughton waiting in the wings, somebody is going to have to move eventually. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really notice him utilizing the extra ice you get there, so I think he could be just as valuable on the wing, but they really need to stop moving him around and just let him find his game.

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01-08-2014, 01:17 PM
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Vanek(or trade)-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couts-Vinny
Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo/Rosehill/whoever
Didn't people say Hartnell was too slow for Giroux and Voracek? Vanek ain't fast either.

Would be a great acquisition though. If Bobby Ryan really signs with Philly in 2015, the Flyers would have Giroux, Voracek, Vanek and Ryan. 4 potential 30-goal scorers. And who knows how good Schenn and Couturier will be by then.

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01-08-2014, 01:26 PM
  #21
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Didn't people say Hartnell was too slow for Giroux and Voracek? Vanek ain't fast either.

Would be a great acquisition though. If Bobby Ryan really signs with Philly in 2015, the Flyers would have Giroux, Voracek, Vanek and Ryan. 4 potential 30-goal scorers. And who knows how good Schenn and Couturier will be by then.
Vanek is a better skater than Hartnell. He isn't the fastest guy, but he is definitely better than Hartsy. He also has great puck skills and soft hands. He doesn't mind crashing the front of the net and can score some pretty goals from there. Overall, Vanek is just a much better player than Hartnell, which is why he would be a major upgrade to him or Raffl on the top line.

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01-08-2014, 01:36 PM
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Didn't people say Hartnell was too slow for Giroux and Voracek? Vanek ain't fast either.

Would be a great acquisition though. If Bobby Ryan really signs with Philly in 2015, the Flyers would have Giroux, Voracek, Vanek and Ryan. 4 potential 30-goal scorers. And who knows how good Schenn and Couturier will be by then.
You're probably only getting one of those guys. I highly doubt there's a scenario where both end up here likely because of cap space & the fact that having both of them is redundant when there's other holes to be filled on the team.

Of course we could strike out with both of them or neither of them could even reach free agency for all we know.

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01-08-2014, 01:36 PM
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I know I'm probably all by myself on this one, but the next time the offense goes cold, I wouldn't mind moving Giroux to Brayden's wing.

Schenn is much more productive when he's engaged from the middle. He's just a very ineffective winger, and if we want to maximize his productivity, you have to give him some big tools on his line so he can get lost in coverage and find those soft spots in the offensive zone.

I actually think Stamkos at wing in the Olympics is going to be a similar failure to the B. Schenn to wing experiment here. For guys like Schenn and Stamkos, their best attribute is their invisibility. They naturally gravitate to those soft spots where the defenders don't go to, and guys like St. Louis (and Giroux) are generally the best options to find these players when they get lost in coverage.


So the tl;dr is that 1) Schenn can not play wing; he needs to be engaged at all times. And 2) Schenn needs guys who can draw defenders out so he can do his thing and find holes in the slot.

So I propose the next line combo shakeup be Giroux-Schenn-Voracek or maybe even Giroux-Schenn-Hartnell/Simmonds. Though I'm more skeptical on the second combo.


EDIT: Also, I'm aware Stamkos put up big numbers on Giroux's wing at the World Championships last year, but if I recall correctly, Stamkos had only one ES goal and the rest were on the PP. At ES, I don't think Canada will have success with Stamkos on the wing for the same reasons we haven't had success with Schenn on the wing.

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01-08-2014, 01:48 PM
  #24
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I know I'm probably all by myself on this one, but the next time the offense goes cold, I wouldn't mind moving Giroux to Brayden's wing.

Schenn is much more productive when he's engaged from the middle. He's just a very ineffective winger, and if we want to maximize his productivity, you have to give him some big tools on his line so he can get lost in coverage and find those soft spots in the offensive zone.

I actually think Stamkos at wing in the Olympics is going to be a similar failure to the B. Schenn to wing experiment here. For guys like Schenn and Stamkos, their best attribute is their invisibility. They naturally gravitate to those soft spots where the defenders don't go to, and guys like St. Louis (and Giroux) are generally the best options to find these players when they get lost in coverage.


So the tl;dr is that 1) Schenn can not play wing; he needs to be engaged at all times. And 2) Schenn needs guys who can draw defenders out so he can do his thing and find holes in the slot.

So I propose the next line combo shakeup be Giroux-Schenn-Voracek or maybe even Giroux-Schenn-Hartnell/Simmonds. Though I'm more skeptical on the second combo.


EDIT: Also, I'm aware Stamkos put up big numbers on Giroux's wing at the World Championships last year, but if I recall correctly, Stamkos had only one ES goal and the rest were on the PP. At ES, I don't think Canada will have success with Stamkos on the wing for the same reasons we haven't had success with Schenn on the wing.
All I read here was Stamkos to Philly (P5)

Honestly though. Could you imagine if the Flyers traded Hartnell this off season and got both Ryan(through trade) and Vanek(through trade for rights or free agency).

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Vanek-Schenn-Simmonds

Lol. That would be hilarious to watch. Pipe dreams come true!!!!......

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01-08-2014, 02:11 PM
  #25
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So the tl;dr is that 1) Schenn can not play wing; he needs to be engaged at all times. And 2) Schenn needs guys who can draw defenders out so he can do his thing and find holes in the slot.
I may be in the minority, but I still think Schenn will be fine at LW if need be. Maybe not as good as C, but not a huge downgrade.

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