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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Wheels and Sarge out.

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Old
01-08-2014, 04:22 PM
  #776
mypunkrock
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Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?

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01-08-2014, 04:23 PM
  #777
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I'd say yes. He's still easily one of, if not the best 2B over the past 10 years.

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01-08-2014, 04:27 PM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?
That's a good question & to be honest I'm not really sure. The injuries & the missed games really hurt his progression the last few years.

If he ever does get in I think the wait will be a while. I don't think he would get in fairly quick.

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01-08-2014, 04:37 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's a good question & to be honest I'm not really sure. The injuries & the missed games really hurt his progression the last few years.

If he ever does get in I think the wait will be a while. I don't think he would get in fairly quick.
This is my thought. Looking at his MLB totals though, his next two years offer him the opportunity to hit some milestones:

1500+ hits and 300+ doubles this year
Maybe 50 career triples (I suspect this is the least likely to occur)
250+ home runs
1000+ RBIs
150 stolen bases

Plus he has serious hardware:
5× All-Star (2006–2010)
4× Silver Slugger Award winner at second base (2006–2009)
World Series Champion (2008)
"This Year in Baseball Awards" Postseason Moment of the Year (2008)
Sports Illustrated MLB All-Decade Team (2009)
Fielding Bible Award (2010)

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01-08-2014, 05:21 PM
  #780
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I don't see how you can justify keeping Bonds or Clemens out of the HOF, even with steroids. Maybe it's just me, but there's no doubt in my mind that they still would've been (in Bonds case, he already seemed to have been) on a HOF track without roids.
Bonds really has nobody but himself to blame & I'm not even talking about that from a PED standpoint. The guy was just a JO of a human being & treated the media like they were beneath him even dating back to before all the steroids stuff came about.

That guy has absolutely zero shot of making the HOF even if they lax the rules on steroid users.

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01-08-2014, 05:24 PM
  #781
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I think if Utley continues to have a few more years like the last year, he should get in. The fact that he's a second baseman really helps his chances.

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01-08-2014, 05:32 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?
Phillies Hall of Famer

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Old
01-08-2014, 05:41 PM
  #783
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Late to the "Thank God Wheels is Gone" party but just read the news. Maybe there is a god after all. I'm actually semi-delirious with joy considering the prospect that I may never hear that clown's voice again.

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01-08-2014, 05:55 PM
  #784
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Dan Lebatard of ESPN let a bunch of deadspin readers fill in his HOF ballot as his way of showing displeasure of the current voting system.

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01-08-2014, 06:30 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Dan Lebatard of ESPN let a bunch of deadspin readers fill in his HOF ballot as his way of showing displeasure of the current voting system.
Wow, that's who it was? Seen the initial campaign, I didn't think it would be such a known name. He has to be in some hot water for that, wouldn't he?

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01-08-2014, 06:36 PM
  #786
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Wow, that's who it was? Seen the initial campaign, I didn't think it would be such a known name. He has to be in some hot water for that, wouldn't he?
Yup, Deadspin was keeping it anonymous but then Lebatard revealed on his show that it was him. He said he'll likely lose his voting privileges but he didn't really care.

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01-08-2014, 07:09 PM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?
No.

He is a hall of fame caliber player but he has two things that have really hurt him.

1. He didnt start playing full time until he was 26.

2. He was injured during his early 30's. Had he been healthy from 2010-2012 and put up his usual numbers I would like his chances alot more.


I guess if somehow he were to ever get to 2000 hits (writers love those type of milestones), he could have a shot. But that is unrealistic as he is 590 away.

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01-08-2014, 07:33 PM
  #788
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Agree with Justified. His peak was a pretty awesome 5 year stretch, but injuries and not enough years in the bigs will be problematic. He also is short on hardware. He was never an MVP (though he was in the top-15 5 times), nor does he have any Gold Gloves. A 5 time All-Star, 4 time Silver Slugger and WS win are positives, though.

The only way I can see him making it is if he somehow plays to ~39 (an with his knees that's most likely a longshot) with numbers at least slightly better than replacement level and reaches those milestones that people like to see. And even then he'd need a large section of the BBWAA HOF voters to be more progressive when it comes to players numbers and how they contributed to their teams. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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01-08-2014, 09:21 PM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?
I don't think so. The injuries really hurt his chances.

Better question:

Is Jimmy Rollins a future Hall of Famer?

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01-08-2014, 10:08 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Question:

Do you guys see Utley as being a future Hall of Famer?
If Biggio is stuggling to get in like this, then no. I'd say Utley is more comparable to Jeff Kent...much more offensive. I don't think Kent sniffs the HoF

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01-08-2014, 10:19 PM
  #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Yup, Deadspin was keeping it anonymous but then Lebatard revealed on his show that it was him. He said he'll likely lose his voting privileges but he didn't really care.
http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hal...lot-1496558341

I actually voted in that a month ago haha.

Read the article for Dan's quotes, lots of good stuff in there.

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Old
01-08-2014, 10:21 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
I don't think so. The injuries really hurt his chances.

Better question:

Is Jimmy Rollins a future Hall of Famer?
He should be. He has an MVP and 4 Gold Gloves (only six shortstops have more). I think that gets him in. Maybe not first ballot but sooner or later.

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01-08-2014, 10:33 PM
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
I don't think so. The injuries really hurt his chances.

Better question:

Is Jimmy Rollins a future Hall of Famer?
I think he's got the best shot out of anyone that was a core member of this club. MVP winner, multiple GG (4) winner, multiple AS (3), Silver Slugger, and WS winner is a good chunk of hardware to start. He's also been around long enough and has played well enough offensively at a tough defensive position to rack up some numbers (and we all know how HOF voters love them some traditional numbers).

For instance, he's currently 1 HR short of 200. Once he hits that, he'll have at least 200 HR, 2k Hits, 450 2Bs, 100 3Bs, 800 RBI, 400 SBs. Only Paul Molitor (HOFer) and Johnny Damon (probable future HOFer) have at least that many in each category. And Jimmy would be the only SS to have accrued them throughout the history of baseball. If he stays healthy long enough he can certainly pad those stats a bit more and make a better case.

That said, it still might take some public massaging of those numbers to sway voters, as he didn't hit more glamorous marks of 3k hits, 1k RBI, or 300HR. I'd say it's a coin flip for Jimmy as it stands now, but I'd vote for him.

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01-08-2014, 10:56 PM
  #794
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Honestly, for me, Jimmy fell off too hard and too fast in his prime years to be considered for the hall. Utley's been too banged up.

None of the current Phillies are HoFers unless they have some sort of bizarre renaissance.

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Old
01-08-2014, 11:03 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
I think he's got the best shot out of anyone that was a core member of this club. MVP winner, multiple GG (4) winner, multiple AS (3), Silver Slugger, and WS winner is a good chunk of hardware to start. He's also been around long enough and has played well enough offensively at a tough defensive position to rack up some numbers (and we all know how HOF voters love them some traditional numbers).

For instance, he's currently 1 HR short of 200. Once he hits that, he'll have at least 200 HR, 2k Hits, 450 2Bs, 100 3Bs, 800 RBI, 400 SBs. Only Paul Molitor (HOFer) and Johnny Damon (probable future HOFer) have at least that many in each category. And Jimmy would be the only SS to have accrued them throughout the history of baseball. If he stays healthy long enough he can certainly pad those stats a bit more and make a better case.

That said, it still might take some public massaging of those numbers to sway voters, as he didn't hit more glamorous marks of 3k hits, 1k RBI, or 300HR. I'd say it's a coin flip for Jimmy as it stands now, but I'd vote for him.
That's what I was thinking too. I didn't know the exact numbers, but I knew his stats and accolades were very comparable to other hall of famers.

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01-08-2014, 11:20 PM
  #796
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That's what I was thinking too. I didn't know the exact numbers, but I knew his stats and accolades were very comparable to other hall of famers.
Here's some fuel to my theory that he's a potential HOF coinflip.

Among SS, He currently ranks 25th per Fangraphs WAR. Of the 24 players above him are 18 HOFers. Those that aren't in the HOF are:
Jeter (will go to HOF)
A-Rod (possible HOF pending what voters decide to do w/PED users)
Alan Trammell (who I think should be in)
Vern Stephens
Bill Dahlen (last played in 1911)
Jack Glasscock (terrible name, last played in 1895)

And of the 24 next players below him in WAR there are only 4 who are in the HOF:
Hughie Jennings
Rabbit Maranville
Phil Rizzuto
John "Monte" Ward

So basically, Jimmy could be around the cutoff line for SS HOF prospects if you use WAR as the measuring stick. But much like I said in the last post, he could still play well enough to up his WAR. Of course it's tough for a guy his age to get positive chunks like he used to,

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01-08-2014, 11:54 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
Here's some fuel to my theory that he's a potential HOF coinflip.

Among SS, He currently ranks 25th per Fangraphs WAR. Of the 24 players above him are 18 HOFers. Those that aren't in the HOF are:
Jeter (will go to HOF)
A-Rod (possible HOF pending what voters decide to do w/PED users)
Alan Trammell (who I think should be in)
Vern Stephens
Bill Dahlen (last played in 1911)
Jack Glasscock (terrible name, last played in 1895)

And of the 24 next players below him in WAR there are only 4 who are in the HOF:
Hughie Jennings
Rabbit Maranville
Phil Rizzuto
John "Monte" Ward

So basically, Jimmy could be around the cutoff line for SS HOF prospects if you use WAR as the measuring stick. But much like I said in the last post, he could still play well enough to up his WAR. Of course it's tough for a guy his age to get positive chunks like he used to,
So, what then distinguishes Jimmy from the 24 guys below him, or potentially from the guys above him?

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01-09-2014, 12:10 AM
  #798
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If Barry Bonds is not getting in for being a total dick wad, take Ty Cobb out, and anyone else who had ties to the Ku Klux Klan, of which there are a lot.

As of right now, the all time hits leader is not in the hall, the all time home run leader is not in the hall, and i would say the best pitcher in the league for damn near 20 years is not in the hall. That bugs me. We can all pretend like they didn't play, but it's the hall of fame, not the hall of morality.

You can't split Bonds and Clemens from anyone in that era, even though they were caught. No one knows every single person that juiced. If the league and writers are trying to make such a statement by keeping them out, where were these vigilante writers during the actual time period the players were using? They all knew. If not all, most.

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01-09-2014, 12:14 AM
  #799
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So, what then distinguishes Jimmy from the 24 guys below him, or potentially from the guys above him?
I guess that's what the HOF voters will have to debate among themselves.

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01-09-2014, 12:14 AM
  #800
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Furthermore, the more I think about what Lebatard did, the more I like it. I thought he was a dumbass at first, but this system really is a joke. These baseball writers are part of some fossil old boys club who look at arbitrary milestones to measure greatness (some of them.)

Like the guy who didn't vote for anyone except Jack Morris? Guys who cast votes for Hideo Nomo, Paul Lo Duca, Jacque Jones, Kenny Rogers, Armando Benitez, JT Snow, Eric Gagne, and Luis Gonzalez? Give me a break. Aaron Sele got a vote a few years back. This process should be reviewed, and these guys need to have their pens taken away if they vote for Paul ****ing lo Duca.

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