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01-08-2014, 03:20 PM
  #26
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I have a feeling Vanek will sign with the Wild next season. So, don't have your sights set on him too much.

And as for Bobby Ryan, I don't want to trade for a player who will probably come to Philadelphia on his own in a couple seasons.

I would not mind seeing Schenn get moved to the First line and put Giroux or maybe Schenn on the wing.

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01-08-2014, 03:20 PM
  #27
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How can the Wild afford 2 massive contracts with Parise and Suter and what I figure to be a massive deal with Vanek?

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01-08-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
How can the Wild afford 2 massive contracts with Parise and Suter and what I figure to be a massive deal with Vanek?
The cap going up & the possibility of him giving them a bit of a discount.

He played during his college days at Minnesota & apparently likes the area.

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01-08-2014, 03:31 PM
  #29
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We shouldn't forget, B.Schenn generates Briere-symptoms come play-off time.





From the month April on, the guy develops a mean streak coupled with a nice scoring touch.

He had 9 points (3g, 6a) in the play-offs.


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01-08-2014, 04:02 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
How can the Wild afford 2 massive contracts with Parise and Suter and what I figure to be a massive deal with Vanek?
They have $22m in cap space with 17 players already signed for next year. Outside of Suter their defense is very cheap.

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01-08-2014, 04:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You're probably only getting one of those guys. I highly doubt there's a scenario where both end up here likely because of cap space & the fact that having both of them is redundant when there's other holes to be filled on the team.

Of course we could strike out with both of them or neither of them could even reach free agency for all we know.
but with the cap going up to 71 there is a possibility.

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How can the Wild afford 2 massive contracts with Parise and Suter and what I figure to be a massive deal with Vanek?
Heatley is FA after 2013-14 and will probably be gone. I doubt he'll stay in Minnesota.

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01-08-2014, 04:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BackWithaVengeance View Post
We shouldn't forget, B.Schenn generates Briere-symptoms come play-off time.





From the month April on, the guy develops a mean streak coupled with a nice scoring touch.

He had 9 points (3g, 6a) in the play-offs.
His split stats on Yahoo show strong Aprils with us.

They also show he's inconsistent as hell outside of April , but I'll take a late performer.

He's still young, whether or not he stays inconsistent or figures it out remains to be seen. I remain skeptical at this point.

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01-08-2014, 04:43 PM
  #33
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He may have struggled this season so far, but lately he's been impressing me a lot more than Couturier has. It's like only one of them can be good at a time.

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01-08-2014, 05:06 PM
  #34
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As said in the original Brayden thread, keep him at Centre unless you're putting him on the Right Wing where he can use his body to slow down the play and engage his nice passing vision.

He doesn't have the speed or the touch to be impactful on his forehand wing.

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01-08-2014, 05:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by vtm26 View Post
but with the cap going up to 71 there is a possibility.
Sure but it's going to be tight up to that cap to where you would have to move some stuff around to make it work or give yourself some breathing room. Plus the Flyers also have a glaring weakness on the blue line going forward that needs to be taken care of.

I would say the odds of it happening are very slim.

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01-08-2014, 05:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
He's been producing at a 2nd liner pace last yr and this while getting 3rd line minutes and 2nd pp duties. He's not a 3rd liner unless he regresses. The opposite is more then likely true considering his age. He's on pace for 51 pts this yr and was on pace for 45 last season, if he improves even a bit and starts putting up around 60 pts that makes him a legit first liner. 70+ is good for top 25 in scoring most yrs. My point is he's more 1st/2nd line then he is 2nd/3rd line material.
Eh, I dont consider the rate of points to be a great indicator. I dont think one can say with extreme confidence that the reason Schenn is scoring at the pace is because he is creating his own chances, making great passes or scoring great goals (as in him creating those chances). Almost all of his goals are because everyone else works around defenders or make a ton of passes, it hits the goalie and he finishes.

Not saying it will not change. Like I said I think his scoring ability can be real good, but he isnt considered a sniper, grinder, playmaker, shutdown forward. He is honestly in his own category.

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01-08-2014, 05:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I know I'm probably all by myself on this one, but the next time the offense goes cold, I wouldn't mind moving Giroux to Brayden's wing.

Schenn is much more productive when he's engaged from the middle. He's just a very ineffective winger, and if we want to maximize his productivity, you have to give him some big tools on his line so he can get lost in coverage and find those soft spots in the offensive zone.

I actually think Stamkos at wing in the Olympics is going to be a similar failure to the B. Schenn to wing experiment here. For guys like Schenn and Stamkos, their best attribute is their invisibility. They naturally gravitate to those soft spots where the defenders don't go to, and guys like St. Louis (and Giroux) are generally the best options to find these players when they get lost in coverage.


So the tl;dr is that 1) Schenn can not play wing; he needs to be engaged at all times. And 2) Schenn needs guys who can draw defenders out so he can do his thing and find holes in the slot.

So I propose the next line combo shakeup be Giroux-Schenn-Voracek or maybe even Giroux-Schenn-Hartnell/Simmonds. Though I'm more skeptical on the second combo.


EDIT: Also, I'm aware Stamkos put up big numbers on Giroux's wing at the World Championships last year, but if I recall correctly, Stamkos had only one ES goal and the rest were on the PP. At ES, I don't think Canada will have success with Stamkos on the wing for the same reasons we haven't had success with Schenn on the wing.
I actually really like the Stamkos comparison. Obviously Schenn isn't close to the talent of Stamkos, but he's got the same knack for getting free in the offensive zone. We've all noticed how much more defensive attention Giroux draws lately, if we moved him to Schenn's wing he could draw off the defense and allow Schenn the opportunity to get free and Giroux to find him with the puck.

It could be a very deadly combo and a similar duo to what Tampa Bay has going with Stamkos/St. Louis. Assuming G goes back to RW, you could put a grinder like Hartnell (or Vanek/Ryan like some people are hoping) on the LW to forecheck and dish the puck to G or Schenn and clean up in front of the net. Could even try Vinny on the LW.

It would also allow Voracek to move down to the 2RW spot and play more of a dominate possession role instead of splitting it with G.

Edit: Of course Schenn's terrible face off performance would be a problem..

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01-08-2014, 06:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Eh, I dont consider the rate of points to be a great indicator. I dont think one can say with extreme confidence that the reason Schenn is scoring at the pace is because he is creating his own chances, making great passes or scoring great goals (as in him creating those chances). Almost all of his goals are because everyone else works around defenders or make a ton of passes, it hits the goalie and he finishes.

Not saying it will not change. Like I said I think his scoring ability can be real good, but he isnt considered a sniper, grinder, playmaker, shutdown forward. He is honestly in his own category.
Did you see him play last night? He made a fantastic pass to Hartnell, and he played Grossmann's pass perfectly. It's not that easy to play a slap pass that fluidly off your skate and still make that shot. He's creating his own chances.

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01-08-2014, 06:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I actually really like the Stamkos comparison. Obviously Schenn isn't close to the talent of Stamkos, but he's got the same knack for getting free in the offensive zone. We've all noticed how much more defensive attention Giroux draws lately, if we moved him to Schenn's wing he could draw off the defense and allow Schenn the opportunity to get free and Giroux to find him with the puck.

It could be a very deadly combo and a similar duo to what Tampa Bay has going with Stamkos/St. Louis. Assuming G goes back to RW, you could put a grinder like Hartnell (or Vanek/Ryan like some people are hoping) on the LW to forecheck and dish the puck to G or Schenn and clean up in front of the net. Could even try Vinny on the LW.

It would also allow Voracek to move down to the 2RW spot and play more of a dominate possession role instead of splitting it with G.

Edit: Of course Schenn's terrible face off performance would be a problem..
Yeah, this is exactly my line of reasoning for the comparison and the suggestion.

People (including myself) give Schenn **** for being "invisible", but I think we sort of ignore that this is also his greatest strength (just like Stamkos). The difference, obviously, is that Stamkos has such great finishing ability that he's rarely ever invisible for too long because he's always burying goals. Schenn, though, turns into a ghost when he's not finishing. If we could play to his strengths (ie, giving him Giroux and letting Schenn play center), he'd be a lot more valuable.

And if moving Giroux to the wing is so unconscionable, then maybe just put together a Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek line instead. Either way, I'd like to see Schenn be given an opportunity tailored to his strengths as a player.

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01-08-2014, 06:12 PM
  #40
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He may have struggled this season so far, but lately he's been impressing me a lot more than Couturier has. It's like only one of them can be good at a time.
I'm not sure we should expect a lot from Couturier from now until after the Olympic Break...he looks like his doubled ice time has caught up to him.

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01-08-2014, 06:15 PM
  #41
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I'm not sure we should expect a lot from Couturier from now until after the Olympic Break...he looks like his doubled ice time has caught up to him.
Might as well trade him for some bad decent prospects.

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01-08-2014, 06:26 PM
  #42
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Might as well trade him for some bad decent prospects.
That's not even close to what he was saying.

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01-08-2014, 06:39 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
That's not even close to what he was saying.
I didn't think I needed to put the at the end of that post.

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01-08-2014, 06:45 PM
  #44
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Did you see him play last night? He made a fantastic pass to Hartnell, and he played Grossmann's pass perfectly. It's not that easy to play a slap pass that fluidly off your skate and still make that shot. He's creating his own chances.
No didnt get to watch the game last night. But honestly you might be the only person to think he creates his own chances.... he gets in the right spot at the right time. It's not a shot at Schenn either... it's just not his type of game.

Dont know. Maybe I am wrong and am the only one that see's this. To say he is a playmaker or goalscorer, I think, is wrong.

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01-08-2014, 06:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
No didnt get to watch the game last night. But honestly you might be the only person to think he creates his own chances.... he gets in the right spot at the right time. It's not a shot at Schenn either... it's just not his type of game.

Dont know. Maybe I am wrong and am the only one that see's this. To say he is a playmaker or goalscorer, I think, is wrong.
How many chances does Stamkos create himself? It's really not as much as you would think for a 50+ goal scorer. But he, too, has a knack for "being in the right spot at the right time" which is a skill in itself.

That skill is a way of creating your own chances. While I agree that it's difficult to label Schenn a playmaker or a goalscorer, it's a little unfair to say he doesn't create his own chances. Sure, in general, he may not be the guy driving to the net or making a sweet pass across the ice, but that ability to find open ice and put himself in a position to score is half of the equation anyways, so to say he doesn't have a hand in "creating offense" is a little disingenuous.


Please note I am in no way comparing Schenn to Stamkos-- I'm just expressing their ability to go into "ghost mode" and reappear with a quality scoring chance in front of the net.

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01-08-2014, 07:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
How many chances does Stamkos create himself? It's really not as much as you would think for a 50+ goal scorer. But he, too, has a knack for "being in the right spot at the right time" which is a skill in itself.

That skill is a way of creating your own chances. While I agree that it's difficult to label Schenn a playmaker or a goalscorer, it's a little unfair to say he doesn't create his own chances. Sure, in general, he may not be the guy driving to the net or making a sweet pass across the ice, but that ability to find open ice and put himself in a position to score is half of the equation anyways, so to say he doesn't have a hand in "creating offense" is a little disingenuous.


Please note I am in no way comparing Schenn to Stamkos-- I'm just expressing their ability to go into "ghost mode" and reappear with a quality scoring chance in front of the net.
I can't count on my hands how many highlights I saw of Stamkos doing that knee drop one-timer from the left face-off circle over the years.

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01-08-2014, 07:08 PM
  #47
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I can't count on my hands how many highlights I saw of Stamkos doing that knee drop one-timer from the left face-off circle over the years.
That knee-drop one timer is generally done on the power play. At even strength, though, Stamkos's main weapon (imo even greater than his shot) is finding soft spots in coverage and capitalizing when the chance presents itself.

I'm not saying Stamkos doesn't create his own chances 5v5-- quite the opposite, actually. I'm saying that just because you don't notice a guy in the offensive zone doesn't mean he's not doing something integral to the creation of offensive chances.

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01-08-2014, 07:17 PM
  #48
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Eh, I dont consider the rate of points to be a great indicator. I dont think one can say with extreme confidence that the reason Schenn is scoring at the pace is because he is creating his own chances, making great passes or scoring great goals (as in him creating those chances). Almost all of his goals are because everyone else works around defenders or make a ton of passes, it hits the goalie and he finishes.

Not saying it will not change. Like I said I think his scoring ability can be real good, but he isnt considered a sniper, grinder, playmaker, shutdown forward. He is honestly in his own category.
I don't know sa cyred he's show some playmaking ability(the pass to Hartnell). I know people say he gets those goals where his linemates create for him but it takes an good offense sense to be in the right place to finish off those chances. I think he's more of shooter than playmaker but his play under Berube has looked encouraging versus when Lavy was behind the bench.

But I agree it's hard to pinpoint his game because he doesn't have a trait that stands out. He's just solid in all areas.

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01-08-2014, 07:32 PM
  #49
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No didnt get to watch the game last night. But honestly you might be the only person to think he creates his own chances.... he gets in the right spot at the right time. It's not a shot at Schenn either... it's just not his type of game.

Dont know. Maybe I am wrong and am the only one that see's this. To say he is a playmaker or goalscorer, I think, is wrong.
That's mostly what I see. It's rare to see him driving or controlling the play...he always seems to be reacting to it.

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01-08-2014, 08:10 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
How many chances does Stamkos create himself? It's really not as much as you would think for a 50+ goal scorer. But he, too, has a knack for "being in the right spot at the right time" which is a skill in itself.

That skill is a way of creating your own chances. While I agree that it's difficult to label Schenn a playmaker or a goalscorer, it's a little unfair to say he doesn't create his own chances. Sure, in general, he may not be the guy driving to the net or making a sweet pass across the ice, but that ability to find open ice and put himself in a position to score is half of the equation anyways, so to say he doesn't have a hand in "creating offense" is a little disingenuous.


Please note I am in no way comparing Schenn to Stamkos-- I'm just expressing their ability to go into "ghost mode" and reappear with a quality scoring chance in front of the net.
I guess it comes down to how you classify a goalscorer and playmaker. I have stated that he does a really good job getting in the right spot for goals. My definition of creating chances is driving up the ice, making a pass that leads to a goal, maybe taking a defender on, maybe forchecking, or getting the puck and making a nice pass which leads to a goal. When I actually see him forcheck, getting the puck and make a pass, it reminds me of Richards actually. When he plays on that edge I love watching him play. Schenn honestly does have one of the best offensive instincts (as in what to do when, and where to be) on the team.

Stamkos I disagree with. I have watched Stamkos a decent amount (plus have cousins that are Tampa fans) and there are plenty of times where Stamkos is the one leading the charge up the ice or making that nice pass. Him getting in the right spot for the goal is close to Schenn but Stamkos also leads the play at times. Schenn's skills set doesnt really allow for that. Also, as you have said also, Stamkos' shot is top notch, probably the best in the league. While Schenn has a good shot I wouldnt classify it as great.



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I don't know sa cyred he's show some playmaking ability(the pass to Hartnell). I know people say he gets those goals where his linemates create for him but it takes an good offense sense to be in the right place to finish off those chances. I think he's more of shooter than playmaker but his play under Berube has looked encouraging versus when Lavy was behind the bench.

But I agree it's hard to pinpoint his game because he doesn't have a trait that stands out. He's just solid in all areas.
Yes he has some playmaking skills. I do agree with that. But nothing that really stands out. For example, you know Giroux is going to make those nice pass(es), Voracek will either pass well or body players off as he goes around them, Hartnell/Simmonds dont have the best hands or feet but set themselves infront of that net and do the dirty work. Read (I think) has one of the better shots on the team but I classify him as our two way guy. He will either score some goals, set them up, or play that hard defense. Couturier has got those shutdown instincts. Downie, when not hurt, is pretty good against the boards and does a great job forechecking and moving the puck around. Hall wins those faceoffs and plays the pk while Rinaldo... hits hard I guess. Vinny was controlling play extremely well in the offensive zone before he got hurt. Raffl actually does a very good job grabbing the puck and mid ice and moving it into the offensive zone. Schenn, I have no idea where to put him. He does things well but nothing that sets him aside and go "Man he plays just like "blahblahblah". I hope he can become like him". Closest comparison I got to him is a poor man Mike Richards (minus the defense). When he is forchecking, getting that puck, moving it around and then getting open, I like it. I only see him flying around like that a few games at a time though.

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That's mostly what I see. It's rare to see him driving or controlling the play...he always seems to be reacting to it.
Exactly. It's just not the type of player he is though. He doesnt have to be that either. I kind of am just hoping here that some of his skills start to stick out more as they improve. I hope it's his shot. He does have a decent-to-good wrist shot.

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