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Old
01-23-2007, 09:09 AM
  #26
In The Flesh
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He is garbage. By far has been the worst D man on the team.

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01-23-2007, 09:22 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
..ANd if you are gonna criticize Malik, all i'm saying is that the wildy incosistent and out of control Tyutin, the wandering and cosntantly out of position Rachunek, the mistake prone Pock, the just as slow Kaspar and the other team's 4th forward Aaron Ward all need to be reamed just as much....
I can't think of anyone on the team who hasn't had their fair share of criticism heaped upon them.

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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Two reasons the crowd has turned on Malik:
  1. When things aren't going well they feel the need to have a whipping boy.
  2. Certain people at hockey games get besides themselves when they see a huge player that doesn't regularly hand out physical punishment. closed the book on him.
Unlike you, I can't speak for everyone, but neither of these are the reason I have a problem with Malik being in the lineup. Bottom line, there's 6 better defenseman on the team and probably 1 or 2 down in Hartford. Serviceable? I guess. Part of the best lineup Renney can put together? Absolutely not.

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01-23-2007, 10:10 AM
  #28
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Malik has played awful hockey this season, and while the defense as a whole has not played well, he's the biggest example (in more ways than one) of what's wrong with our defense.

Here is why he's singled out more than most:

1. He's big and soft, a combination that doesn't go over well with Ranger fans. See Willie Huber.

2. He's a lazy hockey player, way too many hooking and holding penalties for someone who should be strong enough to minimize those type of penalties. The problem is, too often he stops moving his feet.

3. He plays way too much, which makes him even more of a visible target. Maybe if he were a number five or six defenseman we'd be more patient with him, but he's getting valuable playing minutes with our only good line, so we expect more out of him.

Which leads us to...

4. His +/- stats are misleading. Playing with the Jagr line pads his +/- stat considerably, which is not much of a function of how well he's playing.

5. Also, he's a terrible penalty killer, unwilling or unable to move or even tie up someone in front of the net, and he may be the worst defenseman in the league in stopping the pass from one side of the goal, across the goalmouth to the other side of the goal. He's simply bends over, not even far enough to get his stick flat onto the ice, instead of going down to block it. Again, lazy.

6. And his poor penalty killing does nothing negative to his +/- stats.

7. He's the prime example of a player who should not be earning valuable playing minutes. Dressing Hossa over a Dawes or an Immonen is one thing, but Hossa isn't getting a lot of minutes. Malik plays a lot, he's old, and at this point he's never going to get any better. I'd rather lose with a young guy who's learning, than a Malik who is just collecting a big paycheck.

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01-23-2007, 10:12 AM
  #29
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Hey Larry, you do realize that you are comparing Fedor Tyutin, who is a 23 year old defenseman with a mere 150 games under his belt, Pock, who at the age of 25 has a whopping 32 NHL games to his credit, and Rachunek, who even though he is 26, has less than 4 seasons worth of game experience, most of which were pre lockout and pre rule changes to Malik, who broke into the league well over 10 years ago? Kaspar has pretty much played his way off the Roster... and Ward gets to handle the other teams offensive forwards while your boy Marek gets to cruise around on autopilot with the rest of the fun bunch. If Kasparaitis were playing in Malik's position, he'd probably do just as well, as would Ward. The young guys I'm willing to cut a break because they're young. They will make mistakes, hopefully they learn from them. Malik, at this stage of the game, isn't going to learn anything new. Malik and Roszival are statistical wonders. If you only watched the boxscore, you'd think they're great. It's far from the truth.
No, I'm not really comparing..I'm just teeling it like it is....I'm no fan of Malik and he has his problems, but somehow the team plays better when he's on the ice and I'll take that....Blasting Malik for his play is fine and he pften deserves it, but to not blast the others for their crappy play is hypocritical...Yeah, it can be excused with a "he's young and learning" but it doens't change the fact that they (Pock, Rachunek, Tyutin) are often laying like ****.....But as is the rage here, young guys get a free pass no matter what.......ANd peole here care too much about style points, sometimes if you get the job done, you get it done..Occcasionaly Malik does that, that's all....ANd I would still trade him tomorrow and think he's like ttgh or 6th D-man I would keep, just want people to be consistent..

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01-23-2007, 10:38 AM
  #30
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Larry M - I like where you are coming from. The problems are with the team (D), not just one player.

I think his size makes people scratch their head even more. How many times has a Malik hater said, "If I had his size..."

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01-23-2007, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Todays NHL is prohibitive to intimidating defensemen the fans love. All Malik has to do (same was true for Poti) is just hurt someone and fans will love him. I think most of fans that want blood have never had crap beat out of them. They should, though...

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01-23-2007, 11:34 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Todays NHL is prohibitive to intimidating defensemen the fans love. All Malik has to do (same was true for Poti) is just hurt someone and fans will love him. I think most of fans that want blood have never had crap beat out of them. They should, though...
I don't want blood from Malik, just a solid effort night in and night out. He doesn't give that.

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01-23-2007, 11:38 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I don't want blood from Malik, just a solid effort night in and night out. He doesn't give that.
when a smaller guy outworks him in the defensive zone, u know there is a problem, and its not only cause he is slow. He seems lazy out there, even his passes and skating, he seems like he is not intrested in the game.

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01-23-2007, 11:51 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
when a smaller guy outworks him in the defensive zone, u know there is a problem, and its not only cause he is slow. He seems lazy out there, even his passes and skating, he seems like he is not intrested in the game.
He is an exceptional (especially for stay-at-home dman) stickhandler and true heads up guy. Without his play puck possession dominance of 1st line would not be possible. Yes, his play without the puck has a room for serious improvement, but it is not what he is being used for by Renney. Low skill guys have to show enthusiasm in order to keep the job, not him.

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01-23-2007, 12:04 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is an exceptional (especially for stay-at-home dman) stickhandler and true heads up guy. Without his play puck possession dominance of 1st line would not be possible. Yes, his play without the puck has a room for serious improvement, but it is not what he is being used for by Renney. Low skill guys have to show enthusiasm in order to keep the job, not him.
You seriously contrasdict yourself here. How can you say that "is play without the puck has a room for serious improvement" and at the same time call him a "stay-at-home dman"?

Personally, I have seen his exceptional stick-handling (allegedly) be the cause of way too many turnovers in his own zone. It's that kind of carelessness (conbined with a lackluster effort to get back in the play) that gives fans the impression that he's lazy.

And I'd love to see all the Norris Tropheys that Malik has won where he can get away with not showing enthusiasm.

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01-23-2007, 12:12 PM
  #36
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I guess my problems with Malik are that first, he's playing way too much. Second, if we agree he'd be an okay 5-6 guy, he's making way too much money. I shudder everytime I see him start to skate with the puck, it gives me all the confidence of see a basketball center get a sudden feeling to act like a pointguard. It's a turnover waiting to happen, nothing good is coming out of it.

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01-23-2007, 12:14 PM
  #37
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Singin'???? What Norris trophies are you talking about??? I must have missed it...

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01-23-2007, 12:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Personally, I have seen his exceptional stick-handling (allegedly) be the cause of way too many turnovers in his own zone. It's that kind of carelessness (conbined with a lackluster effort to get back in the play) that gives fans the impression that he's lazy.
Well...we all know Lundqvist is to blame. With his terrible to downright disgraceful play, it's no wonder Malik has had trouble stickhandling and why Ward feels the need to lie down and rest right there on the ice during games. We bring in a better goalie, you'll see Marek's skills (along with the rest of the D) increase threefold.

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01-23-2007, 12:22 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Singin'???? What Norris trophies are you talking about??? I must have missed it...
He was sarcastic... I do not disagree with SML. However there is a huge distance between Norris winner and good D. Malik is not bad, not so bad to warrant such a treatment. That's all.Will I trade him Pronger? Yes. Will I trade him for Chara or Hatcher? No way.

Let's face it, this club doesn't have a good stay-at-home D. Nor it will any time soon. Ward was a good signing, but it didn't work as expected. It is not Malik's fault.

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01-23-2007, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Next time the Rangers play, 94, try to focus to just Malik's shifts. Seriously, this guy is REALLY bad. Don't just watch him, watch the plays he makes and how they put his teammates in positions to make bad plays. Record the game if you have to, I'm telling you it's not a situation where guys are just piling on here.

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01-23-2007, 12:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
Well...we all know Lundqvist is to blame. With his terrible to downright disgraceful play, it's no wonder Malik has had trouble stickhandling and why Ward feels the need to lie down and rest right there on the ice during games. We bring in a better goalie, you'll see Marek's skills (along with the rest of the D) increase threefold.
He-he... I'm flattened with you attention. Your joking is not far off, though. With better goaltending Malik's shortcomings would not be so irritating. Also Ward wouldn't look so tired should Lundqvist just poked Holik back then...

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01-23-2007, 12:35 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He-he... I'm flattened with you attention. Your joking is not far off, though. With better goaltending Malik's shortcomings would not be so irritating. Also Ward wouldn't look so tired should Lundqvist just poked Holik back then...
Glad to have flattened you...

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01-23-2007, 12:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is an exceptional (especially for stay-at-home dman) stickhandler and true heads up guy. Without his play puck possession dominance of 1st line would not be possible. Yes, his play without the puck has a room for serious improvement, but it is not what he is being used for by Renney. Low skill guys have to show enthusiasm in order to keep the job, not him.
I hope this is a joke Malik makes Purinton look like an NHL dman. Id take Dale over Malik any day of the week.

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01-23-2007, 01:19 PM
  #44
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I just feel that there are many players who deserve the harsh treatment more than Malik. Rachunek immediately comes to mind. For every nice play he makes on offense, there are about 5 or 6 bonehead plays that he makes in his own zone.

I still maintain that Malik hasnít made nearly as many truly bonehead plays like blind passes across the ice that other dmen on this team have. Heís certainly not playing as well as he did last year, but he was never much better than your average blueliner anyway.

I tend to agree with the people who say that heís just being used as an unfair scapegoat by people who are frustrated with the whole team, which is one of the things that I hate the most about Ranger fans.

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01-23-2007, 01:35 PM
  #45
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I don't know about that, chosen. At the 1/4/07 Flyers game I heard some guys get excited because "Malik is finally back, he's like, leading the team in +/-. He's awesome, man." I heard the same comments last year about Roszival even though he had a torrid 2 1/2 months there in the middle. The fans were eating him up because of that one stat. He had no other stats to rest on, but that one certainly sufficed. So I think that Garden crowd mentality goes both ways. I just know what I see when he's out there and he is struggling alot this season. I could care less if he hits or not, I loved him last year and he didn't hit any more or less. He is a turnover machine right now. He couldn't cover his own shadow in the D zone. What's to like?

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01-23-2007, 01:45 PM
  #46
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I don't know about that, chosen. At the 1/4/07 Flyers game I heard some guys get excited because "Malik is finally back, he's like, leading the team in +/-. He's awesome, man." I heard the same comments last year about Roszival even though he had a torrid 2 1/2 months there in the middle. The fans were eating him up because of that one stat. He had no other stats to rest on, but that one certainly sufficed. So I think that Garden crowd mentality goes both ways. I just know what I see when he's out there and he is struggling alot this season. I could care less if he hits or not, I loved him last year and he didn't hit any more or less. He is a turnover machine right now. He couldn't cover his own shadow in the D zone. What's to like?

I'm not sure who chosen is, but I'm assuming you mean me. But I disagree that he's playing far worse than he did last season. And a few people gushing over his +/- three weeks ago doesn't change the fact that he's receiving the Poti treatment now, being booed every time he touches the puck.

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01-23-2007, 01:50 PM
  #47
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Scapegoat? In a sense, but he still deserves everything he is getting. Sure we can bash others, and we do, but he is on the first pairing with the best line and he is so much worse than last season. It's really Renney that is frustrating us, he is unwilling to treat everyone the same.

But people forget so soon, they say the Poti was the scapegoat last year, but how many battles and threads did we have on Roszival where many of us including me felt like he was a floating turd for half the season. I remember Tyutin getting slammed last year for being inconsistent. Ozonlinsh anyone?

This season we have seen Pock, Rachunek, Kasparatis and even Ward and Tyutin get beat up on the boards. Malik is the only one that comes to mind because he is getting it the most. But he has earned the ire of the crowd.

Ok, so there are obviously people that like Malik. Support him and defend him with examples of what he is doing to help the team and do it with out "+/-" in your post. I've seen alot of posts listing his shortcomings, so let's see the other side of the story.

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01-23-2007, 01:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I'm not sure who chosen is, but I'm assuming you mean me. But I disagree that he's playing far worse than he did last season. And a few people gushing over his +/- three weeks ago doesn't change the fact that he's receiving the Poti treatment now, being booed every time he touches the puck.
Sorry, I should have done this to start with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Two reasons the crowd has turned on Malik:
  1. When things aren't going well they feel the need to have a whipping boy.
  2. Certain people at hockey games get besides themselves when they see a huge player that doesn't regularly hand out physical punishment. It doesn't matter that he is consistently our best plus minus defender to them. They want blood. And before anyone brings up that he plays with the Jagr line as proof of his plus minus, his career seems to be filled with good plus minus numbers. Roszival should be more in the sights of the Garden boobirds but once a decision is made we stick to it whether it is correct or not. Same thing happened with Poti. Two years ago he was terrible so he was booed regularly. Last year he played better than most of our defensemen (admittedly not a very high bar) yet continued to endure the wrath of the ignorant cement thinkers who had already closed the book on him.

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01-23-2007, 01:53 PM
  #49
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Ok, so there are obviously people that like Malik. Support him and defend him with examples of what he is doing to help the team and do it with out "+/-" in your post. I've seen alot of posts listing his shortcomings, so let's see the other side of the story.
Please see my post #34 here and the follow up.

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01-23-2007, 02:23 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Scapegoat? In a sense, but he still deserves everything he is getting. Sure we can bash others, and we do, but he is on the first pairing with the best line and he is so much worse than last season. It's really Renney that is frustrating us, he is unwilling to treat everyone the same.

But people forget so soon, they say the Poti was the scapegoat last year, but how many battles and threads did we have on Roszival where many of us including me felt like he was a floating turd for half the season. I remember Tyutin getting slammed last year for being inconsistent. Ozonlinsh anyone?
But I'm not talking about the message boards, I'm talking about the Garden crowd. I thought their treatment of Poti was over the line last year, too, and more a product of him being overhyped as "the new Leetch" (what a joke, but not his fault) when he got here than his actual lack of production.

The Malik treatment just seems so out of right field. Like I said, I don't see much of a difference from last year. If the offense was playing up to its potential then people wouldn't care about Malik.

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