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Old
01-23-2007, 01:28 PM
  #51
SML
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The only thing that cures situations like these is winning. You can be the worst player ever and nobody cares if it doesn't cost you the game. Take the other night when Tyutin threw his stick, (which I don't think he did) that resulted in a penalty shot. Had Hossa scored on that PS, thise board would be piled high full of people criticizing that bonehead play in such a tight game. Lundqvist bailed him out, so noone even talks about it. Mistakes don't matter until they do matter. Malik can go -2 every night and if the team wins every game, I couldn't care less. The team is not doing well, so people are trying to figure out why. Well, he's a reason why. He's not the ONLY reason, mind you, but to say he has nothing to do with the team's poor play at all is pure denial.

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01-23-2007, 01:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
But I'm not talking about the message boards, I'm talking about the Garden crowd. I thought their treatment of Poti was over the line last year, too, and more a product of him being overhyped as "the new Leetch" (what a joke, but not his fault) when he got here than his actual lack of production.

The Malik treatment just seems so out of right field. Like I said, I don't see much of a difference from last year. If the offense was playing up to its potential then people wouldn't care about Malik.
I think that the comparison to Poti a good one. But the treatment is also fair. Both didn't play with a ton of heart. Both were averse to contact. Neither one of them seemes willing to play hard every shift (which is something that a player can control). And I think that it is the last point that's the reason why both are/were so poorly received. Both are getting paid well to play a game and work hard for about 22 minutes a night. I don't think that is too much to ask.

To Poti, I don't think he was ever thought of a "the new Leetch". He was rumored to be an offensive defensemen (although his career stats do not backup that claim). His lackluster play got him ran out of Edmonton (a town that his hardly as tough on it's athletes as New York is).

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01-23-2007, 01:54 PM
  #53
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
. Well, he's a reason why. He's not the ONLY reason, mind you, but to say he has nothing to do with the team's poor play at all is pure denial.
Of course he is, but so are Tyutin, Ward, Rachunki, Kapar and Pock. Some of them more frequently (like in the 7 game losing streak where Malik only played two games) and some of them just as lazy at times..

On the flip side, and his +/- stats show it, Malik's presence also SOMETIMES helps the team suceed when he is out there. whether it's coincidence, the jagr line, a goalie covering for him or him playing a role, it doesn't matter..results are what matter

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01-23-2007, 02:04 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Of course he is, but so are Tyutin, Ward, Rachunki, Kapar and Pock. Some of them more frequently (like in the 7 game losing streak where Malik only played two games) and some of them just as lazy at times..

On the flip side, and his +/- stats show it, Malik's presence also SOMETIMES helps the team suceed when he is out there. whether it's coincidence, the jagr line, a goalie covering for him or him playing a role, it doesn't matter..results are what matter





Saddest part is that no matter how much trouble people think he is/can be (and I'm one of the people that agree he's been a problem despite the bloated +/-) The team's record with him is better then it is without him.

MY biggest argument is that the likes of Girardi, Baranka, Pock and perhaps even Staal couldn't be doing any worse of a job with regular playing time this season then our supposed "top 4" have done.....

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01-23-2007, 02:21 PM
  #55
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post
Saddest part is that no matter how much trouble people think he is/can be (and I'm one of the people that agree he's been a problem despite the bloated +/-) The team's record with him is better then it is without him.

MY biggest argument is that the likes of Girardi, Baranka, Pock and perhaps even Staal couldn't be doing any worse of a job with regular playing time this season then our supposed "top 4" have done.....
True, but for their development, Girardi, Baranka and Staal have been in the right place...Agree on Pock

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01-23-2007, 10:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
With better goaltending Malik's shortcomings would not be so irritating.
Off course they would not seem irritating. That's because they would be covered up. Having one's defensive weaknesses masked by stellar goaltending is not a standard of success.

It seems that anytime that a player like Malik gets attention, there are always the "you'd love him if he was just physical" posts. Nothing could be further from the truth. He would be just fine if he would play at an acceptable level, one that does not equate with being a #7 defenseman on many nights.

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01-24-2007, 07:58 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Off course they would not seem irritating. That's because they would be covered up. Having one's defensive weaknesses masked by stellar goaltending is not a standard of success.
True, but no one can be successful by constantly going after one scapegoat year after year just changing the name of him. Poti, Rozsival, Ozolinch, Malik...

I repeat it again, Pronger- Niedermyer wouldn't be able to help this
team. Luck of team defense plus poor goaltending would make any D slow and lazy. Niedermyer would only be LESS slow and lazy since he has more talent, but talent alone doesn't get the job done. We had many talented players failing in here.

I am not trying to get Malik into Norris or HOF consideration, but to blame him for pitiful performance of the team is just unfair.

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01-24-2007, 08:10 AM
  #58
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I disagree 94now...

If this team's top pairing was Pronger/Niedermayer this team would be a second line center away from being serious Stanley Cup contenders, and this team immediately would erase any doubts that it may not make the playoffs this season. You're talking about two guys who are far beyond and defenseman on this team defensively, and two defensemen who would add a good deal more offense than any other defenseman, and that, combined with Jagr, is very, very dangerous. The difference between where the Rangers are right now, and where, say, the Devils are currently, is a few games that the Rangers couldn't score an extra goal, or couldn't keep an extra goal out of the net. I think that pairing is easily good for changing the fates of enough games for this team to be near where the Devils are currently, if not ahead, but without that second line center would still have trouble against a more balanced team (say Buffalo) in a 7 game series.

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01-24-2007, 08:23 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
True, but no one can be successful by constantly going after one scapegoat year after year just changing the name of him.

Ummmmm, isn't that what you've been doing with Lundqvist for the past 3 months?

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01-24-2007, 08:24 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
If this team's top pairing was Pronger/Niedermayer this team would be a second line center away from being serious Stanley Cup contenders, and this team immediately would erase any doubts that it may not make the playoffs this season. You're talking about two guys who are far beyond and defenseman on this team defensively, and two defensemen who would add a good deal more offense than any other defenseman, and that, combined with Jagr, is very, very dangerous. The difference between where the Rangers are right now, and where, say, the Devils are currently, is a few games that the Rangers couldn't score an extra goal, or couldn't keep an extra goal out of the net. I think that pairing is easily good for changing the fates of enough games for this team to be near where the Devils are currently, if not ahead, but without that second line center would still have trouble against a more balanced team (say Buffalo) in a 7 game series.
Yeah, I totally agree. He's making it sound like it wouldn't matter if you put the top six defensemen in the LEAGUE on the Rangers, the defense would still suck because of Lundqvist.

The bottom line is Malik is not a top two defenseman. Top six maybe, top two is ridiculous. I haven't done this, but if you compare Malik and Roszival to any top two combination in the league, I bet they grade out at or very close to the bottom. Can you imagine what Pronger's +/- would be if he played with the Jagr line all the time?

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Old
01-24-2007, 08:38 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I am not trying to get Malik into Norris or HOF consideration, but to blame him for pitiful performance of the team is just unfair.
I don't blame Malik for the pitiful performance of the team. But I do blame Malik for his own pitiful play.

And a turnover in his own end is still a turnover in his own end whether is results in a goal or not.

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Old
01-24-2007, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't blame Malik for the pitiful performance of the team. But I do blame Malik for his own pitiful play.

And a turnover in his own end is still a turnover in his own end whether is results in a goal or not.
The problem is that 94 blames Lundqvist for Malik's pitiful play.

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Old
01-24-2007, 05:00 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Ummmmm, isn't that what you've been doing with Lundqvist for the past 3 months?
Thank you. That made my day.

I don't think anyone has stated that Malik is what is keeping this team from taking the next step. The entire team is responsible for that. They are lacking the intangibles that were so aboundant last season. There was hard work, accounability, energy and smart play. Instead of using the boards last season the D passes through the middle. Instead of rolling 4 lines last season we use 2 1/2.

Many have been saying since last season that our blueliners as a whole are our achilles heal. The thing is that no one thought it would be Malik who was the worst, or at least the one that has fallen off the most. I for one thought that Roszival would completely drop off and I've been wrong. I thought Malik would be covering his mistakes again but this season it has been the other way around.

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