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Sticks. Wood or Composite

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Old
01-07-2007, 08:21 PM
  #26
Jawsh
 
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The thing about Composite sticks breaking is that they break suddenly, and without notice. If you have a wood stick and it breaks, it's not without notice. There is a lot of wear-and-tear before they break, and you can definately see it coming. That is why you never see a guy like Markus Naslund break a stick, because he will just get a new one before it breaks.

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01-07-2007, 10:47 PM
  #27
Slick
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I meant to post this earlier. I actually made a thread on this same topic about a year ago, it might help since there was a poll on it, though it seems to be 95% composite in this thread!

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=235958

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01-08-2007, 12:13 AM
  #28
crashlanding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Sorry, just gave some vague graphs because I didn't think anyone would really be interested. I initially wanted to run an impact test, but the strength of the sticks actually broke the pin on the impact hammer. I decided to run a three point bending test (I actually had to use the schools high power one to get them to fracture, the normal ones in lab only cause them to flex). The three point bending test seems to best simulate the force the stick sees during a slapshot (as the stick will flex/bend before it breaks).

Here is an example of how the test is set up, notice the two bars it is resting on to allow the flexing. The force is applied (onto a piece of metal I put on the stick to more evenly distribute the load) and the stick flexes until fracture.



Finally, once fracture happens:

Thanks for posting more detail on your tests. As a graduate in civil engineering that's going into composites in my grad-school studies, this kind of a test is somewhat of a "pet project" for me. I'd love to do some research into why the OPS break so easily compared to the shaft-blade combo. Is it a fundamental design flaw? Do slashes really damage the stick enough to cause future failure? That kind of stuff.

For those of you that have OPS that have broken, where do they break?

As for improving the test, I think a similar setup with a full stick and the load being applied where you'd hold your bottom hand would work. But I don't believe that sticks break due to over-flex, which is what you are showing. Plus, it would probably be pretty important to use two sticks with about the same flex-rating if you didn't do that in your initial test.

Do any other engineering nerds know any resources that go into the materials/production of composite sticks? OP or just simple shafts?

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Old
01-08-2007, 02:15 AM
  #29
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I love my sherwood 85 flex coffey curve composite.

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Old
01-08-2007, 08:14 AM
  #30
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I like composite, i have a ccm vector and a bauer vapor and they both have lasted me a long time, and they havent broke once. There is a lot of wear and tear on it though

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01-08-2007, 03:25 PM
  #31
Slick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashlanding View Post
Thanks for posting more detail on your tests. As a graduate in civil engineering that's going into composites in my grad-school studies, this kind of a test is somewhat of a "pet project" for me. I'd love to do some research into why the OPS break so easily compared to the shaft-blade combo. Is it a fundamental design flaw? Do slashes really damage the stick enough to cause future failure? That kind of stuff.

For those of you that have OPS that have broken, where do they break?

As for improving the test, I think a similar setup with a full stick and the load being applied where you'd hold your bottom hand would work. But I don't believe that sticks break due to over-flex, which is what you are showing. Plus, it would probably be pretty important to use two sticks with about the same flex-rating if you didn't do that in your initial test.

Do any other engineering nerds know any resources that go into the materials/production of composite sticks? OP or just simple shafts?
Yeah, my test was far from perfect but was fun to do none the less. I definently would only take it with a grain of salt but thought it might be useful to the discussion.

It would definently be a cool job to work developing hockey equipment one day, I hope you get to.

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01-08-2007, 06:38 PM
  #32
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I tried to switch a while back from the wood shaft to the composite, but it never felt good in my hands. But Nowadays, in California, it is so hard to come buy a decent wood stick that you almost have to switch to composite.

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Old
01-11-2007, 02:35 PM
  #33
Ti-girl
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I use composite.

Being a girl I found it really tough to find a wood stick that I could flex. I got a 70 flex composite that works WONDERFULLY. It was a bit tough to adjust, but now I LOVE it.

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"I channeled my inner Morneau, took the stick and hit the mother****** to the moooon!"
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Old
01-21-2007, 03:46 PM
  #34
Islander102
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The difference is not how often they break but the way they break that makes composites appear weaker. Wood sticks get a fracture in them when they break and snap vertically but usually not completley apart. Sometimes you cant even tell they are broken until you try and hit a puck and the stick will just bend and nothing really happens.

Composites break like this: They get a fracture somewhere in the sticl that doesnt go all the way through because composite shafts are hollow. The next time you make contact with either another stick or the ouck, the stick will explode into two pieces with a horizontal crack. It happens just as often as wood sticks break, but you can spot a somposite breaking from a mile away. Often when a wood breaks only the guy holding the stick even knows its broken. Explosions of wood sticks occur about 1/8 of the times they break. Explosions are the only way composites break. If they both break the same amount of times, to the person not holding the stick it appears that wood breaks more often. And thats where this myth begins.

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Old
01-21-2007, 07:36 PM
  #35
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I'm all for wood but, it's hard to find them tall enough being 6'5 and all. Plus the blades go dead, and it's hard to find good flex/curves. And they break way to easy. Although they're great for whacking people in the legs. Personally I say composite has better feel, but maybe that's just me.

Wood isn't totally for slash and hack hockey though, wasn't the slap shot speed winner using wood?

However it has been proven that for players between the level of pewee to midget have an added average of 8mph on their shot. There was a real detailed article in usa hockey about it when composite was all the hype.

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Old
01-22-2007, 06:12 PM
  #36
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Never been a fan of composite sticks, every one i've had has snapped at bad times during a game (On a PK, one snapped on a breakaway, shorthanded, in OT). I only use wood, in the last few years the only one i've brokefully was from snapping it against the goal post. The rest have gotten stress fractures and cracks and splits, but i've finished games with them, even played a few with them like that, could never do that with a composite.

If its good enough for Al Macinnis then its good enough for me.

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Old
01-22-2007, 07:48 PM
  #37
lotus
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I actually really like the feel of my synergy ST. I don't think i am strong enough to flex it effectively yet but I really like the feel. It holds up really well so far, its been hacked at down by the blade very often and all it has to show is a couple paint chips. Granted the chips upset me

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Old
01-22-2007, 08:25 PM
  #38
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i use wood, because i know if i buy a composite then i will never go back to wood, and that would be an expensive investment. i can shoot just fine with my feather-lite, and i dont worry when i break one cause i just go down and by another cheap one

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Old
01-22-2007, 11:38 PM
  #39
lotus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoll_16 View Post
i use wood, because i know if i buy a composite then i will never go back to wood, and that would be an expensive investment. i can shoot just fine with my feather-lite, and i dont worry when i break one cause i just go down and by another cheap one
Haha thats what i told myself. There's about 4 somewhat busted feather lights in the corner of my room. When i bought the 4th, after the first game when i took the tape off, the face of the blade was cracked pretty deep, the tape actually pulled allot of the blade off. I remember the slap shot i took that did it too but damn.

I bought my Synergy ST the next day. I got ST cause i hear the durability is crazy good. Holding up so far.

But yes,
I'll never go back

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Old
01-23-2007, 08:14 AM
  #40
stick9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Granted the test isn't going to be perfect. I didn't have many sticks to break, infact I only had one wood stick to use and one Synergy that was donated to me for the test by the UMass hockey dept. There are only a few machines to be used for testing, and I had a limited amount of time to do them. I picked the machine that would best simulate a slapshot, I couldn't simulate all the variables such as a slash because the impact tester couldn't handle the force needed.

Also, you can't fit an entire stick into that machine, nor do I think using the whole stick would have change the test results at all. I did the best with what I had, and from what I've seen I believe wood sticks are stronger. Perhaps if I had more time for research I could come up with a better test, but this was a project for junior year.

I'm posting my results for others to take as they may, not as the end all-be all proof one is better than the other.
You have to account for the stress point created by the device used to hold the stick and the section applying the pressure. Wood can absorb those by compressing. Composite won't compress and that area becomes a high stress point.

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Old
01-23-2007, 08:48 AM
  #41
Poochie_D
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I prefer wood but thats probably cause my game is a playmaking game and I don't shoot too too much. I played a fairly competitive level (Junior AAA) where most guys used composites but I didnt see the need to. I used the Easton Fiber-Lite model and that was good enough for me. Passing is much better with a wood stick IMO.

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Old
01-23-2007, 01:01 PM
  #42
Millions Livio
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Although I love my Composite, in all honest I prefer shafts because of the customization. I like a very "wickid" (as described by a teammate a year or so back) blade, and a sturdy, yet flexiable blade, I also prefer a shaft that have one of the "grips" on it, without using tape for it. Mine has a long grip, which is great because I can lean a little lower on the arm while taking slap shots. The real plus is I can do that and then slide my hand up to ready for another shot or pass and not have to lift off my hand like having tape, but at the same time having a grip. Some people say you don't need a drip, but I cannot get a sturdy hold without it.

All comes down to how you play I suppose, I used to be a "sniper", but I've developed a good slap shot over the last few years of playing the "Sticks and Pucks" (as I got injured and couldn't play in a contact leauge), so I've had to adjust my playing style now that I'm somewhat playing again.

I'm thinking of buying another composite, any advice for one that might suite me? I've got a patriot now, which is good, but it's too stiff, doesn't have any flex at all. I'd like a little more balanced stick.

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Old
01-23-2007, 01:31 PM
  #43
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My brother went and bought his first composite the other day. He's 6'5, 250 lbs. BIG Kid.

He got an 85 flex and his slapshot is now lethal. Can't wait until it breaks, but man, it's a wicked shot. He shattered one of the players shinguards last night.

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