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MLB Discussion Thread Part III: Jeter announces retirement after 2014

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Old
01-08-2014, 03:02 PM
  #401
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Dan Le Batard, for the record, is the ****ing man.

http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hal...lot-1496558341

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01-08-2014, 04:38 PM
  #402
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It's such a disgrace that Gavine is in and Piazza is not.

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01-08-2014, 05:32 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It's such a disgrace that Gavine is in and Piazza is not.
It's such a disgrace that a ton of these guys didn't make it. By my count there were 14 deserving players on the ballot this year:

Maddux
Glavine
Thomas
Clemens
Bonds
Piazza
Bagwell
Biggio
Schilling
Mussina
Martinez
Trammell
Walker
Raines

Plus, McGwire is close for me and there's room for debate on Sosa, Palmeiro, and McGriff. Even if you eliminate the steroids-linked candidates you get to pick from all of these guys:

Maddux
Glavine
Thomas
Piazza
Bagwell
Biggio
Schilling
Mussina
Martinez
Trammell
Walker
Raines

That's 12 guys who've never been linked to steroids. All of them belong in the Hall. And it's not going to get any easier when Johnson, Pedro, Smoltz, and Sheffield join the ballot. The system is a mess.


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01-08-2014, 06:04 PM
  #404
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Biggio missed by literally 2 votes, and at least 2 voters said they would have voted for him if not for the 10 player limit. Why the hell is there a limit? If a writer feels there's 11 hall of famers then there's 11 ****in hall of famers. Why does it have to be overcomplicated?

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01-09-2014, 03:24 PM
  #405
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Biggio is a classic compiler. He deserves to get in for his versatility and his durability, but I never considered him a Hall of Fame player while he played.

Piazza is a casualty of rumor and innuendo. All I know is he was the greatest hitting catcher I ever saw since Johnny Bench.

Personally, i think Bonds and Clemens should be in no matter what. Both players were clearly the best players at their respective positions well before the steroid allegations/live ball era began. Just looking at Bonds' physique during his multi-MVP years in Pittsburgh shows that he was a natural 5-tool talent. My guess is that both men used steroids to continue that production into their 30s, but the truth is that if both retired in say 1993, they would have still gotten in due to their ridiculous peak in their 20s

And I'm a no-go with Edgar. Playing the field is part of the game. Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez were arguably the two best defensive 1st basemen in the history of the game and will never get in despite career .300 averages in a pitchers era.

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01-09-2014, 03:31 PM
  #406
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It's such a disgrace that Gavine is in and Piazza is not.
Piazza admitted to using amphetamines. He was also drafted like 1,400th overall as a favor to someone and became the best hitting catcher of all-time.

Not saying its fair, I think going after players not specifically implicated with steroids amounts to a witch-hunt. But if you're going to be an *******, and suspect these guys, Piazza has to be near the top of the list.

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01-09-2014, 03:52 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Piazza admitted to using amphetamines. He was also drafted like 1,400th overall as a favor to someone and became the best hitting catcher of all-time.

Not saying its fair, I think going after players not specifically implicated with steroids amounts to a witch-hunt. But if you're going to be an *******, and suspect these guys, Piazza has to be near the top of the list.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/...-retrospective

There's some good stuff in the comments there, too. Long story short, his numbers took off suddenly, true, but that was after he improved his plate discipline and moved to a hitter-friendly league.

He admitted to using greenies, too. I bet 90%, if not more, of the players in the hall have used greenies, especially the pitchers.

It's a tragedy that Glavine got in before Piazza, and you know what's a bigger tragedy? Morons who voted for Jack Morris instead of guys like Biggio. Good on Le Batard for doing something to bring how awful the BBWAA is to the public eye.

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01-09-2014, 03:59 PM
  #408
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The BBWAA is full of sanctimonious idiots. Le Batard got banned and the other writers are having a circle jerk about the greatness of their fundamentally flawed institution.

I wish the guy who voted for Morris only and not Maddux got suspended, too. That might be fair.

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01-09-2014, 05:15 PM
  #409
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Hall of fame pls


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01-09-2014, 05:16 PM
  #410
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Am I the only Mets/Rangers fan on here? Just wondering.

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01-09-2014, 05:42 PM
  #411
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Am I the only Mets/Rangers fan on here? Just wondering.
No, I share in your pain. There are a few other Mets fans on here.

I'm a Jets fan as well.

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01-09-2014, 05:43 PM
  #412
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No, I share in your pain. There are a few other Mets fans on here.

I'm a Jets fan as well.
Same. We hit the trifecta.

What did we do to deserve this pain? I tell myself that one day the championship will just taste that much sweeter.

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01-09-2014, 05:43 PM
  #413
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Actually I find that this thread is mostly Mets especially now that we haven't seen Kershaw. But there's a pretty good mix during the summer when the games are going on. It's always fun to watch a Mets game in here.

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01-09-2014, 05:46 PM
  #414
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Actually I find that this thread is mostly Mets especially now that we haven't seen Kershaw. But there's a pretty good mix during the summer when the games are going on. It's always fun to watch a Mets game in here.
I'm gonna miss Harvey day this year.

Looking forward to Thor coming up though. He's supposed to be the best of the bunch.

If we round out the hitting a little bit I think we'll actually be decent this year. Drew to a 1 yr contract. Morales to a 1 year contract. Should get us to be at least .500.

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01-09-2014, 05:50 PM
  #415
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If we sign Drew, it needs to be for 2 years.

Mets aren't competing this year without Harvey.

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01-09-2014, 05:52 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If we sign Drew, it needs to be for 2 years.

Mets aren't competing this year without Harvey.
They aren't which is why I didn't really care if we signed anyone this offseason. Understand why they did though, fans would have flipped out if they went another offseason without doing anything of note.

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01-09-2014, 05:57 PM
  #417
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I never saw Biggio as a hall of famer while he played, but I hope he goes in as a Long Island boy. It's baffling to me that he could get in while Jeff Bagwell misses out though. Looking at those two players on Houston- I always thought Bagwell was more valuable.

On the same point - how does Glavine get in, but not Mussina? They have nearly identical numbers while Mussina pitched in the AL East his whole career. Glavine just happened to pass that 300 win barrier.

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01-09-2014, 05:57 PM
  #418
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They aren't which is why I didn't really care if we signed anyone this offseason. Understand why they did though, fans would have flipped out if they went another offseason without doing anything of note.
I agree with this, but I given the signings I don't think it was a bad thing.

Either we flip the players for good talent at the deadline this year or next, or they're good in the 2nd year of their contracts and we can go for a playoff spot.

That's why if we do sign Drew, it has to be for 2.

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01-09-2014, 05:57 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If we sign Drew, it needs to be for 2 years.

Mets aren't competing this year without Harvey.
I'd like Drew to be a stopgap for Hanley. We have 2 potential blue chip prospects in the farm too: Amed Rosario and Gavin Cecchini. Both are incredibly young, both have star ceilings. There's a chance both will never sniff the MLB though.

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01-09-2014, 05:58 PM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'm gonna miss Harvey day this year.

Looking forward to Thor coming up though. He's supposed to be the best of the bunch.

If we round out the hitting a little bit I think we'll actually be decent this year. Drew to a 1 yr contract. Morales to a 1 year contract. Should get us to be at least .500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If we sign Drew, it needs to be for 2 years.

Mets aren't competing this year without Harvey.
I don't know about "competing" as far as for playoffs. But I think the Mets are in for a decent season. I think they could be as good as the Yankees were last year.

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01-09-2014, 06:00 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'd like Drew to be a stopgap for Hanley. We have 2 potential blue chip prospects in the farm too: Amed Rosario and Gavin Cecchini. Both are incredibly young, both have star ceilings. There's a chance both will never sniff the MLB though.
I don't think Rosario or Cecch have all-star ceilings. I was really mad at the Cecchini pick so I kept up with him this year and he did nothing to ease my worries of that pick. Right now he looks like a Ruben Tejada kind of player, if that.

The only two impact position players in our system, IMO, are Dom Smith and MAYBE Puello. Nimmo had a really good year hitting when he wasn't injured, but he can't hit lefties. If that comes, he can be really good too.

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01-09-2014, 06:03 PM
  #422
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Dan Le Batard, for the record, is the ****ing man.

http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hal...lot-1496558341
Amen, the baseball writers are so annoying. So sick of there holier-than-though attitude.

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01-09-2014, 06:05 PM
  #423
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I don't think Rosario or Cecch have all-star ceilings. I was really mad at the Cecchini pick so I kept up with him this year and he did nothing to ease my worries of that pick. Right now he looks like a Ruben Tejada kind of player, if that.

The only two impact position players in our system, IMO, are Dom Smith and MAYBE Puello. Nimmo had a really good year hitting when he wasn't injured, but he can't hit lefties. If that comes, he can be really good too.
MLB prospects don't develop in the same way as NHL ones. They don't need to excel in every step of their development to become all stars.

Rosario has Reyes potential. He also has huge huge deficiencies. On raw ability, Rosario is incredible.

Cecchini is defensively average. Whether he's an allstar depends on his bat. He has a bit of pop on him. I saw ceiling as high as Jeter when we drafted him. Do I think he'll become that? Absolutely not, but the ceiling is still there.

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01-09-2014, 06:08 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Piazza admitted to using amphetamines. He was also drafted like 1,400th overall as a favor to someone and became the best hitting catcher of all-time.

Not saying its fair, I think going after players not specifically implicated with steroids amounts to a witch-hunt. But if you're going to be an *******, and suspect these guys, Piazza has to be near the top of the list.
Come with some proof or GTFO. That's all that should be said to the voting peons.

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01-09-2014, 06:09 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
MLB prospects don't develop in the same way as NHL ones. They don't need to excel in every step of their development to become all stars.

Rosario has Reyes potential. He also has huge huge deficiencies. On raw ability, Rosario is incredible.

Cecchini is defensively average. Whether he's an allstar depends on his bat. He has a bit of pop on him. I saw ceiling as high as Jeter when we drafted him. Do I think he'll become that? Absolutely not, but the ceiling is still there.
I'm super high on Rosario. We will know a bit more what we have in about two years, I think. But yeah. He does have legit star potential.

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