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Old
01-10-2014, 11:19 AM
  #26
One Man Rock Band
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What a horribly written article.

I still don't see how Gauthier was so terrible in comparison to Gainey or Bergevin to this point.

Gauthier would have selected a good player at #3 too - and likely Galchenyuk after hearing Timmins talk about him.

That's the only great move Bergevin has done so far.

His Desharnais contract was too soon. I think Desharnais is a big part of the team going forward, but he could have been had a lot cheaper had he just waited. As for the Emelin contract? I don't even know. That was one of the worst contracts I've ever seen given out. Maybe he earns it, but who the hell gives out a contract after a guy has been out that long and been in the league for basically a week? Briere... well I just don't get that decision still. Adding another small guy to our lineup made no sense.

Gauthier made a lot of minor moves that didn't really do anything.

All the significant trades he made didn't really do anything, except the awesome acquisition of Wiz.

I'm still a fan of the Cammalleri trade. And I was a huge Cammy fan. But the assets we've got back are awesome (Bourque is meh - sometimes great, sometimes bad, but I've loved the Holland and Fucale picks). We turned Hal Gill into Dalton Thrower and then turned Andrei Kostitsyn into Jacob de la Rose. Yes, I realize those are combining both GMs moves, but I have trust in Timmins to get his guys anyway.

Bergevin has done a lot of sitting on his fingers, after acquiring a solid team and signed some horrible contracts. Oh, and the horrible buyout of Tomas Kaberle. How is Gauthier a sack of potatoes GM and Bergevin a good one? Bergy has done nothing to impress me except wear cool suits.

PS. This isn't a post to say I would have kept Gauthier. Just don't get how Bergevin has earned a better rep.

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Old
01-10-2014, 11:24 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
What a horribly written article.

I still don't see how Gauthier was so terrible in comparison to Gainey or Bergevin to this point.

Gauthier would have selected a good player at #3 too - and likely Galchenyuk after hearing Timmins talk about him.

That's the only great move Bergevin has done so far.

His Desharnais contract was too soon. I think Desharnais is a big part of the team going forward, but he could have been had a lot cheaper had he just waited. As for the Emelin contract? I don't even know. That was one of the worst contracts I've ever seen given out. Maybe he earns it, but who the hell gives out a contract after a guy has been out that long and been in the league for basically a week? Briere... well I just don't get that decision still. Adding another small guy to our lineup made no sense.

Gauthier made a lot of minor moves that didn't really do anything.

All the significant trades he made didn't really do anything, except the awesome acquisition of Wiz.

I'm still a fan of the Cammalleri trade. And I was a huge Cammy fan. But the assets we've got back are awesome (Bourque is meh - sometimes great, sometimes bad, but I've loved the Holland and Fucale picks). We turned Hal Gill into Dalton Thrower and then turned Andrei Kostitsyn into Jacob de la Rose. Yes, I realize those are combining both GMs moves, but I have trust in Timmins to get his guys anyway.

Bergevin has done a lot of sitting on his fingers, after acquiring a solid team and signed some horrible contracts. Oh, and the horrible buyout of Tomas Kaberle. How is Gauthier a sack of potatoes GM and Bergevin a good one? Bergy has done nothing to impress me except wear cool suits.

PS. This isn't a post to say I would have kept Gauthier. Just don't get how Bergevin has earned a better rep.

At the end of the day, our team is coached by a nobody with little to no education from Pointe-Saint-Charle. Why did we bring Bergevin in? WHAT DID HE DO? It was only a huge marketing thing.

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Old
01-10-2014, 11:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I've been chillin' for 20 years of soap opera-like drama with various combinations of dumb and dumber as coach and GM. Isn't it time I get repaid for all that chillin'. 20 years ought to be long enough to build a contender. If not at least do a proper tank job and start hoarding all the prospects like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Edmonton did and still do.
It is more than long enough. But unfortunately the previous regimes didn't get it done. That is not the blame of Bergevin. He essentially has started at year 0

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This alienating your superstar job of Therrien doesn't work. Alienating Patrick Roy didn't do us any good, we got three plugs in return. Same with Lafleur, we got nothing in return from doing that. What are we going to get by continually punishing Subban. We'll get 3 quarters for a dollar if we're lucky.
Therrien is a moron. I agree his time is running out.

Quote:
If Therrien can't figure things out, then he needs to move on and let someone else figure it out for him. If Bergevin can't figure that simple thing out, then he needs to go also. I'm sick and tired of cheering for what is at best a middle of the pack team. An embarrassment to the Serge Savard built teams, never mind Sam Pollock.
The problem is, who do you replace Therrien with? It's not a question of whether he will coach long term or not. (I believe he is leaving soon) But rather a question of timing. I hope we see some new blood in time for the next training camp.

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01-10-2014, 11:33 AM
  #29
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So a sack of potatoes is >> Bergevin.

And "we need to chill'. Carey called, he wants his line back.

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01-10-2014, 11:39 AM
  #30
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If they are healthy in the playoffs and Bergevin can add just one more nice piece at the deadline, I still think Price and Subban can lead them past any team in the East. Probably lose to the Western Conf until about half dozen of the team's prospects are up here, and the young players on the team hit their prime in the next 2-4 seasons.

There's a lot of time still before the playoffs.. still have Jan, Feb, March, April for things to start to really click.

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01-10-2014, 11:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I've been chillin' for 20 years of soap opera-like drama with various combinations of dumb and dumber as coach and GM. Isn't it time I get repaid for all that chillin'. 20 years ought to be long enough to build a contender. If not at least do a proper tank job and start hoarding all the prospects like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Edmonton did and still do.

This alienating your superstar job of Therrien doesn't work. Alienating Patrick Roy didn't do us any good, we got three plugs in return. Same with Lafleur, we got nothing in return from doing that. What are we going to get by continually punishing Subban. We'll get 3 quarters for a dollar if we're lucky.

If Therrien can't figure things out, then he needs to move on and let someone else figure it out for him. If Bergevin can't figure that simple thing out, then he needs to go also. I'm sick and tired of cheering for what is at best a middle of the pack team. An embarrassment to the Serge Savard built teams, never mind Sam Pollock.
The best offensive player I've been able to see during those years is Kovalev. That's a shame.

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01-10-2014, 11:40 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Patience is a virtue...very difficult for Habs fans...
We've been waiting for 20 years. How many years do we need to wait?!

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Old
01-10-2014, 11:42 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
The best offensive player I've been able to see during those years is Kovalev. That's a shame.
True, but #27 was a badass. If the current team had a 6'2 top six RW like that they'd be unstoppable.

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01-10-2014, 11:42 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by blarneylad View Post
It is more than long enough. But unfortunately the previous regimes didn't get it done. That is not the blame of Bergevin. He essentially has started at year 0


Therrien is a moron. I agree his time is running out.


The problem is, who do you replace Therrien with? It's not a question of whether he will coach long term or not. (I believe he is leaving soon) But rather a question of timing. I hope we see some new blood in time for the next training camp.
I don't believe Therrien is going anywhere until at least the end of the season. If we get embarrassed in the playoffs again. As long as we stay in a playoff position, and even if we lose in the first round (6 or 7 games). I figure MT still has a job for next season.

The real problem isn't finding a replacement. It's finding a French one.

Houle, Savard, Gainey, Gauthier then Bergevin. We keep starting over all the time. The results are the same, and so are the methods to obtain those results. So I figure if they can keep using the same excuses, the same crappy methods, then I'm aloud to complain. After all, it is my money they are trying to get isn't it.

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01-10-2014, 11:42 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
The best offensive player I've been able to see during those years is Kovalev. That's a shame.
Considering he's one of the very best ever, no it's not.

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Old
01-10-2014, 11:43 AM
  #36
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To go back to my staff rant, why is Dudley on this team ? Isn't he the one that ran the already bad Atlanta franchise to the ground ?

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Old
01-10-2014, 11:47 AM
  #37
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Considering he's one of the very best ever, no it's not.
He may also be one of the most overrated player ever. You seriously can't put Kovalev amongst the great ones. I know most fans had a love story with Kovalev but you can't be serious here.

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01-10-2014, 11:49 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
If they are healthy in the playoffs and Bergevin can add just one more nice piece at the deadline, I still think Price and Subban can lead them past any team in the East. Probably lose to the Western Conf until about half dozen of the team's prospects are up here, and the young players on the team hit their prime in the next 2-4 seasons.

There's a lot of time still before the playoffs.. still have Jan, Feb, March, April for things to start to really click.
Strong goaltending, good D. Good young core. If they can add some scoring depth I agree they're not that far off. I'm seeing an upward trend anyway. A lot can happen in the playoffs, especially if your goalie is Price and he goes into them playing his best.

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01-10-2014, 11:56 AM
  #39
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I will not be chill until Therrien is gone and Galchenyuk is a centerman playing 15+ minutes a game, with powerplay time. Because by then maybe this team wont be in suck mode and will actually have some damn offense and an actual system that fits the team's strength, without dropping 3 goal leads every time they get them.

Until then I wont even pretend to be chill.

This team is a bottom quartile team that has been carried (no pun) by an exceptional display of goaltending in an unusually weak conference.

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01-10-2014, 11:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
He may also be one of the most overrated player ever. You seriously can't put Kovalev amongst the great ones. I know most fans had a love story with Kovalev but you can't be serious here.
Well, only 79 players in history have reached 1000 points in their career and he's one of them. Not to mention 100 points in 123 playoff games.

He's also won a Stanley Cup, An Olympic Gold, An Olympic Bronze and a world Junior Championship Gold.

I'd say he did alright.

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01-10-2014, 11:57 AM
  #41
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My girlfriend got me those whiskey stones for Christmas. Don't tell me what to do.

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01-10-2014, 12:01 PM
  #42
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Well, only 79 players in history have reached 1000 points in their career and he's one of them. Not to mention 100 points in 123 playoff games.

He's also won a Stanley Cup, An Olympic Gold, An Olympic Bronze and a world Junior Championship Gold.

I'd say he did alright.
Can't find the part where I said Kovalev had a terrible career...

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01-10-2014, 12:04 PM
  #43
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Can't find the part where I said Kovalev had a terrible career...
Well, he's in pretty good company.

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01-10-2014, 12:12 PM
  #44
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Yes, I agree, the fans need to chill ..... but ....

We also need to see tangible evidence that organizational needs are being met. Go back 3,5,7, 10, 15 years and we've been complaining about the SAME thing. We're going to react this way because we don't trust anything will be done, we don't see the movement. We see new GM's make the same mistakes as the previous ones and even more infuriating is watching new GM's try and correct the bad moves of his predecessor .... only to compound them.

We couldn't sign Briere when he was worth a big contract ... so we fix that by signing him a couple years later.... not a great move.
Kaberle sucks..... must use buyout .... but then not use the capspace for anything useful. Crap... now we don't have a buyout to fix the other 2 equally bad contracts .... no leverage.

It's also frustrating because fans actually see a glimpse of what could be a great team, but the windows very small. We have 2 of the best offensive D in the league and arguably the best shot blocker. Price is actually playing like a the stud Gainey thought he was. Pleks has emerged as a premier 2 way forward capable of shutting down the leagues top players. These are elements needed for a cup, but they need more support and it ain't coming.

We're not winning a cup anytime soon. My solution. Trade/bury Boullion, Briere, DD, Bourque (he's so bad I actually couldn't remember his name for a minute or so). Call up some of that young talent and let them grow, together. if they don't we've at least got leverage with them. The team is no worse with Tinordi here instead of Cube. The team is no worse with Leblanc here instead of Bourque. Replacing Briere and DD with AHLers may make us marginally worse, but only in the short term. They are very replaceable.

Patches/Eller/Gally
Galch/Pleks/Gio
Bournival/Leblanc/Prust
Moen/White/???? who cares

Markov/Tinordi
Subban/Emelin
Gorges/Diaz

This is a better lineup than we are putting out there now.

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01-10-2014, 12:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Lars Mon Amour View Post
We've been waiting for 20 years. How many years do we need to wait?!
Well it's not Bergevin's fault you've been waiting that long. He hasn't even been here for 2 full years, people need to have a bit of patience.

He said he wanted to build the team through the draft, do people think that kind of plan gets you the Cup after 2 years?!

I agree people need to chill and give Bergevin more time to turn this team into a Cup contender.

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01-10-2014, 12:26 PM
  #46
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Totally agree with the article. Habs fans are ALWAYS inpatient. That comes with being spoiled. Some younger fans likely will be head scratching on what I mean by spoiled but nonetheless, the younger gen has been instilled with this virtue of being a fan of Le Grand Club. We want it all & we want it now

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01-10-2014, 12:29 PM
  #47
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The Habs are playing .500 since their winning streak.

We're allowed to be anxious and annoyed. We're a better team than this.

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01-10-2014, 12:36 PM
  #48
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Go back 3,5,7, 10, 15 years and we've been complaining about the SAME thing.
There is something to be said for a fan base that has been SCREAMING for the last 3,5,7, 10, 15 years for a John LeClair type/size forward. This is one of those "SAME" things. FINALLY, we get a potential one in Big Mac so for me at the very least, the earth has FINALLY moved in the right direction for a change

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01-10-2014, 12:39 PM
  #49
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Totally agree with the article. Habs fans are ALWAYS inpatient. That comes with being spoiled. Some younger fans likely will be head scratching on what I mean by spoiled but nonetheless, the younger gen has been instilled with this virtue of being a fan of Le Grand Club. We want it all & we want it now
20 years and counting. 5-year plan after 5-year plan....No **** we're impatient. 1 3rd round in 20 years. Of course, if most people here aren't 20 years old...well no kidding they are more patient than the older ones...But there's a freakin limit. This is the most decorated franchise in the sport. Sorry, but 1 3rd round doesn't cut it. And of all the original six right now, we're in the same category than the Leafs and Rangers. While the Hawks, Wings and even Bruins now are at the upper level of the league. It is frustrated to see. When you keep celebrating the past and have nothing to celebrate in the present....you know that you are not in the greatest era of your time and it has to come with frustration.

Personnally, I would have GLADLY go with 2 or 3 years of real tanking. I would have GLADLY be patient during that time knowing that chances are, we'd be able to pick it up right after and be what the Hawks are right now, hoping we'd have the right people to fix the rest. Having Timmins on board makes me believe that we would be at the top right now. Though, despite the great Timmins work, the management has been able to **** everything up. So true, there's no guarantee. Yet, we didn't tank, and the picks we had, weren't top 5 except Galchy and Price. The upcoming years would have been incredibly for tanking and put ourselves back in the game. But we'll Watch others do it, hoping that there are other Edmonton Oilers kinda of team who won't be able to benefit from acquiring Ekblad, McDavid and Eichel....In the meantime, we'll just continue looking and be average. With average success in the playoffs. And not really looking that much better in the near future. Some promising prospects for sure.....not sure about how promising the management is though...

So the only think we have left really is lower our expectations yet again, and just enjoy the sport for what it is now. Watching the Habs and supporting it. While also watching other teams and see the level at what the sport can really be with Superior players. Habs fans needs to start being fans of the game and not just the team. It might help to become more "patient".....

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Old
01-10-2014, 12:41 PM
  #50
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Anyone got a stat of our Goals For before DD was being used 17+ minutes and after basically when he started getting points.

It feels like we used to score a lot more goals before this team was turned into DD line


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