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Old
01-10-2014, 07:25 AM
  #26
flyershockey
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Lavy relies on his defensemen to do a lot in the transition game, and they have to make quick decisions all over the ice. The forwards love it because it constantly keeps them on the attack, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a lot of his defensemen secretly wished death on him at times. His defensemen take a beating all over the ice.

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01-10-2014, 07:30 AM
  #27
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Relying on players like Lilja to pinch was beyond suicidal...

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01-10-2014, 07:37 AM
  #28
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Yeah Lilja would have looked a lot better if he weren't playing for Lavy. Not great, but not like the dumpster fire we saw here. Lavy's system was above his skill set.

It's not shocking that the only defensemen that looked constantly good under Lavy were Pronger and Timonen. Guys like Coburn, Carle, and Mez all had their struggles under Lavy with getting overhelmed by the play. Coburn looks like a different player now under Berube.

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01-10-2014, 08:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
Obviously PL isn't a player but I thought it would be an appropriate prefix. I'm a Leafs fan here and starting to think that it is possible Carlyle gets fired. Laviolette is available and may be the appropriate successor for RC. I was just wondering if I could get a "scouting report" on Lavy.

I know he's a hot head but is he a players coach? What type of style does he coach both defensively and offensively? How does he like to utilize players, etc...

I am looking for as much information as possible so I appreciate all response but please refrain from the "Oh he's a terrible coach and a hothead" as that information is of no value to me. I want to know his systems, player usage, etc...

Thanks everyone.
Leafs don't buy into what Carlyle is selling, to bad too, he is a good coach.

Too many lazy players on the Leafs.

Kessel, JVR, Gardiner..... Much like enigmas... no coach can fix that.

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01-10-2014, 07:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Look elsewhere....Lavi and his system have been exposed as fraudulant.

But seriously..my main gripe is that the dude does not adjust well and is stubborn. When things don't work right he juggles his lines wayyyy to much and sucks at doing so because he plays favorites. I mean he is making Berube look like a genius when many of Berube's adjustments have been basic and common sense. Not sure if Lavi just became frustrated and couldn't figure adjustments out but he certainly became stale and lost the buy in to his system especially when teams like NJ kept neutering the Flyers and would make comments like ..."they are predictable"
So, he does what every other coach does. Well, it is a business where coaches are fired with regularity. By your standard, every coach is a fraud.

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01-10-2014, 08:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Lavi has his style, and he has his game plan. Once those are in place there is no changing. Adjustment to the big picture is slow, in game adjustments to strategy nearly non-existent.

To succeed, ideally his team needs to have the ability to move up the ice quickly. Good two-way players are crucial, because they need to use their defensive judgement...otherwise, because Lavi wants everyone moving up the ice constantly, you can get situations where the D doesn't have enough forward support. Mobile Dmen are important.

If your team has those things you'll get the most out of Lavi. Either way he seems like a good guy to give a team a kick in the nads, but his shelf life is short.

He is bad at developing young talent. He doesn't really bother to coach defense (or practice it, apparently), so veterans who already know how to play at both ends are a must.

If Toronto has all of that, go for it. If not, hold off. Lavi is best for a team that's built to contend but isn't performing up to snuff. If you're looking to finish building a team I don't know if he's the guy you want. Based on Toronto's current defensive struggles, I don't know if he would be an improvement. He isn't going to coach a team up defensively...they'll just be whatever they already are.
Lavi's system is based on the theory that you can beat the trap with stretch passes, so it means the D really can't join the rush, the gap is too big. The forwards take off on possession and if the D turn it over the forwards are nowhere in sight.

It works for a while, until the other teams figure out that all you have to do is an extreme forecheck and you can keep them pinned in.

Hartnell said it the other night in an interview, can't remember which game: basically he isn't sure if Lavy's style got stale or the other coaches just figured it out and he wouldn't adapt. Nail on the head, Scotty.

All Berube has really done is install a 5 man team game: Forwards stay in the zone until the puck is out for sure, which also allows them to cover their points. Team moves up the ice and back as a 5 man unit. Short possession passes to open options, wingers spread wide, D support and join the rush, Fs backcheck because they are in range. It's working.

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01-10-2014, 10:00 PM
  #32
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So, he does what every other coach does. Well, it is a business where coaches are fired with regularity. By your standard, every coach is a fraud.
No that is YOUR interpretation of what I wrote....besides I was exaggerating more than anything. However, I do think Lavi is not as marketable as some of the other coaches that get fired b/c I really do believe he is sort of a one trick pony type coach that needs a lot of things in place for him to be successful. The comment from Hartnell I think kind of gives an indication that he will need to show more flexibility and innovation if he hopes to get another gig and last beyond a few years. There are plenty of coaches that get let go that still have more staying power than what I think Lavi has to offer.

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01-11-2014, 08:59 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
No that is YOUR interpretation of what I wrote....besides I was exaggerating more than anything. However, I do think Lavi is not as marketable as some of the other coaches that get fired b/c I really do believe he is sort of a one trick pony type coach that needs a lot of things in place for him to be successful. The comment from Hartnell I think kind of gives an indication that he will need to show more flexibility and innovation if he hopes to get another gig and last beyond a few years. There are plenty of coaches that get let go that still have more staying power than what I think Lavi has to offer.
I don't give two ***** what Scott Hartnell says. You talk one trick ponies, he's one who doesn't know how to skate, and is only popular because he managed to turn those who degraded him with said point into charity work, and often goes MIA for weeks. What did he go, 35 games without an assist? Playing with Claude Giroux? He's one of reasons the coach got fired.

I'll take the coach who has produced a record of quick-turnarounds. Which is his record. You keep writing ignoring all of that. Granted, you make some points backing it up, as opposed to other ignoramuses who just think he forgot how to coach (same people who will make the threads about how they don't get it when he leads the Wild to the Finals or something). Teams don't hire coaches worried about what he's going to do in 4 years. He would tell you himself that he doesn't either, he's told a room full of fans similar. Until he gets hired and bombs, you can't simply ignore that he gets results out of being that one-trick pony. As do most coaches, Penguins fans aren't thrilled with Dan Bylsma, and Paul MacLean is a lot less safe with Ottawa than he was 3 months ago.

Now, given that Lavy's record shows that he is able to turn around underacheiving teams, I don't think the Leafs are underacheivers, they're overacheivers. They're still really bad. Scotty Bowman could come out of retirement and not be able to turn that mess around, because it's obviously the Leafs don't have an ounce of a clue what they're doing.

And as for being a one-trick pony, in lieu of getting boat raced by the Devils, don't forget that was done with a team no one knew what would happen given that they had blown up the core of the team less than a year earlier.

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01-11-2014, 09:08 AM
  #34
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If your team is built the right way and ready to compete now, Lavy can have a great impact on your team. If your team has roster flaws and needs to develop players...he is not the right guy.

I kinda wish he was the team USA coach. That roster seems like his wet dream...I think he could get a lot out of it in a two week tournament...more than Bylsma anyway.

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01-11-2014, 10:34 AM
  #35
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Laviolette is a one trick pony more or less, but it's a really good trick in that he does have great ability to turn a team around and he does have great ability to push a team over the top if they're ready for it.

Still, pretty much every coach has a shelf life (mostly short ones) and pretty much every coach doesn't adapt very well to rosters that don't fit their styles.

Coach reputations are also heavily influenced by the results of their team. Bylsma is case study number one for this considering he's blown it in the playoffs time after time and Penguins fans hate him yet his job is secure due to having a team that can coast on purely talent level and he's an Olympics coach.

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01-11-2014, 11:41 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I don't give two ***** what Scott Hartnell says. You talk one trick ponies, he's one who doesn't know how to skate, and is only popular because he managed to turn those who degraded him with said point into charity work, and often goes MIA for weeks. What did he go, 35 games without an assist? Playing with Claude Giroux? He's one of reasons the coach got fired.
Wow. Given that Hartnell is actually there, knows what the team and the other teams are thinking and talking about and is multi-millionaire professional athlete, I'm surprised you value your own opinion so much above his.

One thing is pretty clear: the Flyers' entire organization is completely relieved to be rid of Laviolette and his predictable system, and doing just fine without him.

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01-11-2014, 11:53 AM
  #37
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One thing is pretty clear: the Flyers' entire organization is completely relieved to be rid of Laviolette and his predictable system, and doing just fine without him.
So relieved that they waited until the season started and gave up points in the standings figuring out. I guess the players on the ice are more intelligent than the members of the front office, unless Scott Hartnell decided not to disclose such intellect during exit interviews after a non-playoff season. I'm sure that's not a problem.

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01-11-2014, 12:37 PM
  #38
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So relieved that they waited until the season started and gave up points in the standings figuring out. I guess the players on the ice are more intelligent than the members of the front office, unless Scott Hartnell decided not to disclose such intellect during exit interviews after a non-playoff season. I'm sure that's not a problem.
Homer said that he thought about doing it in the offseason but didn't because of all the injuries he wanted to give Lavy another chance. It didn't work. Any player could have told them that they didn't believe in Lavy's system anymore, they sure played like it.

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01-11-2014, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Homer said that he thought about doing it in the offseason but didn't because of all the injuries he wanted to give Lavy another chance. It didn't work. Any player could have told them that they didn't believe in Lavy's system anymore, they sure played like it.
Should have thought harder then, because the system seemed to look fine when they were winning meaningless games in April, with the likes of Bruno Gervais logging 20 minutes per game. If the decision was that he was good enough to last through the off-season, then he was good enough to get more than 3 games.



Which is just more evidence that it was Ed Snider's decision. Mount Snider doesn't erupt otherwise.

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01-11-2014, 09:37 PM
  #40
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Should have thought harder then, because the system seemed to look fine when they were winning meaningless games in April, with the likes of Bruno Gervais logging 20 minutes per game. If the decision was that he was good enough to last through the off-season, then he was good enough to get more than 3 games.

Which is just more evidence that it was Ed Snider's decision. Mount Snider doesn't erupt otherwise.
Not at all. In April, when they were winning with an AHL D and blowing the tank, they started winning because Lavy changed his system to be more like the one Berube is using now. A team game. It all comes down to whether you want to stretch pass and try to score with your Fs vs. their D, or try to bring the puck up as a 5 man unit to keep your D in the offense.

I think Homer gave Lavy a chance this year, because of the injuries, but also hoping he would keep the more simple, structure system he was forced to use with guys like Schenn, Gervais, Gus, Lauridsen, Huskins, Manning, Konan and Lilja on D. They won BECAUSE Lavy abandoned his system, not because he stayed with it.

As soon as they tried to go back to it this year, the players didn't believe in it and the result was they sucked. The players weren't buying into the system. As soon as they removed the problem, a coach who had a predictable, risky system no one had any faith in, they started to improve.

I really like the job Berube is doing. He's got them playing good, sound hockey. He doesn't panic. He makes good adjustments in game, most of the time, which is something you could never say about Lavy.

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01-12-2014, 05:02 AM
  #41
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Do you think Peter could handle the cold in Winnipeg?

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01-12-2014, 09:37 AM
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Not at all. In April, when they were winning with an AHL D and blowing the tank, they started winning because Lavy changed his system to be more like the one Berube is using now. A team game. It all comes down to whether you want to stretch pass and try to score with your Fs vs. their D, or try to bring the puck up as a 5 man unit to keep your D in the offense.

I think Homer gave Lavy a chance this year, because of the injuries, but also hoping he would keep the more simple, structure system he was forced to use with guys like Schenn, Gervais, Gus, Lauridsen, Huskins, Manning, Konan and Lilja on D. They won BECAUSE Lavy abandoned his system, not because he stayed with it.

As soon as they tried to go back to it this year, the players didn't believe in it and the result was they sucked. The players weren't buying into the system. As soon as they removed the problem, a coach who had a predictable, risky system no one had any faith in, they started to improve.

He didn't give Lavy a chance this year. 3 games is not a chance. They were looking for a reason to fire him after a sluggish pre-season and 3 losses to start the season. A lot of what's happened has happened because there was no possible way Giroux, Simmonds, and Voracek all became >40-point players overnight. Just like how Steve Mason wasn't going to keep up a .940 sv%. Generally the same things that allowed them to win games in April: they simply weren't bad enough to be a bottom-5 team.

I was not against changing the coach, but the events that led up to firing him didn't lend to the team being very confident that it was going to work, or even it being a decision that was Holmgren's and Holmgren's alone.

As far as your point that they played "a team game," disagree. That's too much of a blanket claim. What was the entire 11-12 season? Especially after Pronger went down (which in a new discussion, would be the record of every team hitting the skids after Pronger is out of the equation). Aside from Voracek, almost every player was either a rookie or had their best season.

Quote:
I really like the job Berube is doing. He's got them playing good, sound hockey. He doesn't panic. He makes good adjustments in game, most of the time, which is something you could never say about Lavy.
And in 2010, change Berube to Lavy and Lavy to Stevens and you'd have generally the same sentiment. I don't think Berube is an idiot, but he's getting too much credit for watching the percentages turn, and his system isn't that drastic from what they were already doing. If we're saying these things about Lavy, we can't ignore that Berube was also part of the "worst training camp ever"

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Do you think Peter could handle the cold in Winnipeg?
Better question: Can Winnipeg handle the heat?

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01-12-2014, 10:12 AM
  #43
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Yeah, Berube isn't some master tactician. He's got them playing more conservative and skating harder. Genius.

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01-12-2014, 10:14 AM
  #44
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Maurice is in the Peg now, so no to Lavi on that......

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01-12-2014, 02:37 PM
  #45
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He didn't give Lavy a chance this year. 3 games is not a chance. They were looking for a reason to fire him after a sluggish pre-season and 3 losses to start the season.
oh god....

so u think they should have thrown even more of the season away before firing the guy ???



the guy needed to go part way throu last season..

given him training camp/preseason and ANY of the reg. season WAS overkill... the writing was on the wall long ago even if Homer knew it was there and didnt wanna read it.

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01-12-2014, 03:30 PM
  #46
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Homer said that he thought about doing it in the offseason but didn't because of all the injuries he wanted to give Lavy another chance. It didn't work. Any player could have told them that they didn't believe in Lavy's system anymore, they sure played like it.
He didn't give Laviolette any chance this season as far as this season goes. He was gone three games in.

Laviolette needed to be gone, but Holmgren definitely didn't give Laviolette a chance this season despite giving him the whole training camp and season start.

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