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Round 2, Vote 1 (HFNYR Top NYR Wingers All-Time)

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01-09-2014, 06:54 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I went from feeling good about my top 5 to only being certain about Bill Cook at #1. I'll have to do some more work tonight. Be prepared for a lengthly post later.
Tell me about it, after re-reading my Gilbert post, I'm asking myself why he isn't #2 on my list.

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01-09-2014, 10:02 PM
  #27
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I don't believe Hextall belongs in the rarified air at the top of this list. I will try and compile stats later but my memory of looking over his stats earlier was that as clutch as he might have been in 1940, he might have actually been more fortunate than clutch -at least if you go by the rest of his playoff resume. My memory is that there were quite a few playoffs where Hextall was a no-show - 0 goals, 1 assist and a quick exit after 3 games. I also believe that for as much as perhaps half of his Ranger career, he was not the best Ranger winger on his teams. I can't place him on the same level as Cook, Bathgate and Gilbert when his time as top Ranger winger might have been 5 seasons and maybe fewer. More to come.

When I first started looking at this, it was clear that Bathgate, Gilbert and Cook were the top 3, not necessarily in that order. so I went about defining a criteria to rank them.
The key question was how much weight to give to winning a cup? Given the dearth of cups this team has won, it became clear in my mind that it needs to be considered substantially. Partially due to that, Cook got the nod as the clear #1.

From pure production and skills, Bathgate and Gilbert should be ranked ahead of Hextall, but I kept running into the same cup winning issue with Hextall.
He kept coming up in the top 3.
I completely understand that it is not a popular position, most of the sites did not have him in their top 10, but I could not ignore my own criteria.

Bathgate (0.91 PPG) and Gilbert (0.95 PPG) had pretty similar production to each other, they were both prolific scorers and they both had early injuries. Like I said earlier, it's sad that we will never know how good Bathgate could have really been without the metal plate. Same thing would apply to Gilbert about his back. But they never won the cup with the Rangers.

I grant you the argument about the playoffs, Gilbert and Bathgate were more productive at double the pace. But he did win the cup.

Did I put too much weight on winning the cup? That could be.

Hextall was not as prolific scorer, but he was not too shabby (0.8 PPG)

He led the league in scoring in 39-40 and 40-41. Was the Art Ross winner in 41-42. On 4 other occasions he was top 10 in scoring, 4 All star selections.
He scored 20 goals in 7 consecutive seasons back in the days of 48 game seasons.
He was considered the dominant RW of his era.
All those accolades are nothing to sneeze at.
And yes there was that SC OT GWG on the road, the last SC the Rangers would win for 54 years.
He was also a hard hitter, which a style I enjoy watching.
Quote:
Herb Goren, a long time reporter for the New York Sun once said "He was the hardest bodychecking forward I had seen in more than forty years of watching hockey."
Finally Hextall's career was cut short by the war, he lost a couple years in his prime age serving in the canadian army.

To summarize, I completely understand if you don't have him ranked higher, but I strongly disagree that he doesn't belong in the discussion.

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01-09-2014, 11:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Ratelleitlikeitis View Post
I'm leaning to Gilbert for all the statistical proof provided and the fact that he did all that after breaking his back in junior. Imagine what he might have done without requiring spinal fusion and months of rehab!
Pretty amazing, and more than a few of these guys overcame some crazy injuries:

"Andy Bathgate is one of the NHL's greatest players ever to grace a sheet of NHL ice, yet it is amazing that he even played hockey after suffering a horrific injury in juniors.

In 1951, while playing with the Guelph Juniors, he received a check that severely damaged his left knee. A steel plate was fixed beneath the kneecap yet it plagued him throughout his career. Despite this, he missed only five games in more than eleven seasons with the New York Rangers.

Even though this undoubtedly limited Bathgate's play, his immense talent prevailed. Bathgate was named twice to the NHL's first and twice to the second All-Star teams. He undoubtedly would have made it more times except that his principal rivals were Gordie Howe, Boom Boom Geoffrion and Maurice Richard."

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01-10-2014, 04:25 PM
  #29
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We are to select 8 names from these 10:

Andy Bathgate
Bill Cook
Bun Cook
Cecil Dillon
Rod Gilbert
Adam Graves
Vic Hadfield
Bryan Hextall
Jaromir Jagr
Lynn Patrick

Our goal is to at least get the top 5 in order, and the next 3 close to ballpark order, as classification continues...

Preliminary so far:

Undisputed # 1:
Bill Cook

Spots 2 through 5 inclusive, order not determined:

Spots 6 through 8 inclusive, order not determined:

literally by process of elimination, remaining 2 don't make the cut.


What I am leaning so far is:

Undisputed # 1:
Bill Cook

Spots 2 through 5 inclusive, order not determined:
Andy Bathgate, Rod Gilbert, Bryan Hextall, Lynn Patrick

Spots 6 through 8 inclusive, order not determined:
Bun Cook
Cecil Dillon
Adam Graves

not making cut: Jaromir Jagr, Vic Hadfield

this is preliminary, would need more review of stats, your opinions, etc. but seems this might be it as to the groupings. Ranking within each group, also needs to be figured.

All comments welcome

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01-10-2014, 09:55 PM
  #30
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Here are some raw stats and commentary on the prime years of Bathgate, Gilbert, and Hextall.

Andy Bathgate

Player Season Age GP G A PTS G/g A/g PTS/g
Bathgate 1955-56 23 70 19 47 66 0.27 0.67 0.94
Bathgate 1956-57 24 70 27 50 77 0.39 0.71 1.1
Bathgate 1957-58 25 65 30 48 78 0.46 0.74 1.2
Bathgate 1958-59 26 70 40 48 88 0.57 0.69 1.26
Bathgate 1959-60 27 70 26 48 74 0.37 0.69 1.06
Bathgate 1960-61 28 70 29 48 77 0.41 0.69 1.1
Bathgate 1961-62 29 70 28 56 84 0.4 0.8 1.2
Bathgate 1962-63 30 70 35 46 81 0.5 0.66 1.16
Bathgate 1963-64 31 71 19 58 77 0.27 0.82 1.08
Bathgate 1956-64 626 253 449 702 0.4 0.72 1.12

Offense Bathgate was an elite offensive player during the O6 Era. He finished top five in points nine years in a row. During his nine year prime, Bathgate had 702 points. Only Gordie Howe scored more during that period of time.

Bathgate was a prolific goal-scorer, finishing top 10 seven times. However, he was an even better playmaker. He led the league in assists twice, and had four more years in second place. During his nine year prime, Bathgate had 449 assists. No one had more. Gordie Howe sits a distant second. What is most impressive is that Bathgate accomplished all this on terrible teams with almost no support. Five times Bathgate finished top five in points without a teammate in the top 10. No one did more with less than Bathgate in the O6 Era.

Awards and Recognition Bathgate was top 10 in Hart voting seven times. He won the Hart once, and would have won it a second time if Gordie Howe never laced them up. Bathgate earned four all-star nominations during the NHL's toughest era for right-wings. During his prime the right-wing all-stars were Bathgate (2/2), Howe (4/5), Richard (1/1), Geoffrion (1/1) and Wharram (1/0).

Playoffs Bathgate has an incomplete playoff resume. During his nine-year prime the Rangers made the playoffs four times, and were bounced in the first round all four times. Bathgate was the team, and he was generally going up against higher seeded Montreal and Toronto teams. In 1958, the Rangers were upset by fourth place Boston, but Bathgate had a very good series. Five goals and eight points.

Longevity From the time Bathgate stuck with the team to the time he was traded, he played every game on the schedule 10 times. He missed just five games during an 11 year stretch.

Rod Gilbert

Player Season Age GP G A PTS G/g A/g PTS/g
Gilbert 1963-64 22 70 24 40 64 0.34 0.57 0.91
Gilbert 1964-65 23 70 25 36 61 0.36 0.51 0.87
Gilbert 1965-66 24 34 10 15 25 0.29 0.44 0.74
Gilbert 1966-67 25 64 28 18 46 0.44 0.28 0.72
Gilbert 1967-68 26 73 29 48 77 0.4 0.66 1.05
Gilbert 1968-69 27 66 28 49 77 0.42 0.74 1.17
Gilbert 1969-70 28 72 16 37 53 0.22 0.51 0.74
Gilbert 1970-71 29 78 30 31 61 0.38 0.4 0.78
Gilbert 1971-72 30 73 43 54 97 0.59 0.74 1.33
Gilbert 1972-73 31 76 25 59 84 0.33 0.78 1.11
Gilbert 1973-74 32 75 36 41 77 0.48 0.55 1.03
Gilbert 1974-75 33 76 36 61 97 0.47 0.8 1.28
Gilbert 1975-76 34 70 36 50 86 0.51 0.71 1.23
Gilbert 1976-77 35 77 27 48 75 0.35 0.62 0.97
Gilbert 1964-77 974 393 587 980 0.4 0.59 1

Offense Gilbert was an all-star calibre offensive player for 14 consecutive seasons in Blue. He finished top 10 in points five times, but never higher than fifth. Gilbert scored 980 points during this stretch, surpassed only by Esposito, Mikita, and Bucyk.

Gilbert was top 10 in goals five times, but like Bathgate, he was an even better playmaker. He finished top 10 in assists seven times. During his 14 year prime, Gilbert had 587 assists. Only Esposito, Mikita, and Orr had more during this period of time. Gilbert did have a better supporting cast than Bathgate. Gilbert finished top 10 in points five times, but in those seasons only once led the Rangers in scoring. During some of Gilbert’s biggest seasons, he finished behind teammates Bathgate, Goyette, Ratelle, and Hadfield, which gives you an idea of where his peak is.

Awards and Recognition Gilbert was top 10 in Hart voting twice, though never higher than seventh. Gilbert also earned two all-star nominations. During his prime the right-wing all-stars were Gilbert (1/1), Howe (4/3), Lefleur (3/0), Wharram (2/0), Hodge (2/0), Cournoyer (0/4), Redmond (1/1), Provost (1/0), Robert (0/1), Leach (0/1), MacDonald (0/1), Rousseau (0/1), and McKenzie (0/1).

Playoffs The Rangers made the playoffs ten times during Gilbert's career. The Rangers won five playoff series during that span and in their most successful campaign lost to Boston in the Stanley Cup Finals. Gilbert played very well during that run, with 15 points in 16 games, third best on the team behind Rousseau and Hadfield.

Longevity Gilbert played every game on the schedule five times, and aside from his last year, only missed significant time in one season. During the meat of his career, he dressed for 93% of his team's games.

Bryan Hextall

Player Season Age GP G A PTS G/g A/g PTS/g
Hextall 1938-39 25 48 20 15 35 0.42 0.31 0.73
Hextall 1939-40 26 48 24 15 39 0.5 0.31 0.81
Hextall 1940-41 27 48 26 18 44 0.54 0.38 0.92
Hextall 1941-42 28 48 24 32 56 0.5 0.67 1.17
Hextall 1942-43 29 50 27 32 59 0.54 0.64 1.18
Hextall 1943-44 30 50 21 33 54 0.42 0.66 1.08
Hextall 1939-44 292 142 145 287 0.49 0.5 0.98

Offense Hextall was the premier right-wing during his six year prime leading up to WWII. He finished top 10 in points four times. He led the NHL in points in 1942, and finished second behind Bill Cowley in 1941. Hextall scored 287 points in his six year prime. Only center Bill Cowley scored more during that span.

Hextall was the best goal scorer in the league during his prime. Hextall finished top 10 in goals six times, leading the league twice and finishing second another time. He scored 142 goals in his six year prime, well ahead of second place Toe Blake. Hextall also had a better supporting cast than Bathgate. In all four seasons Hextall finished top 10 in points, another teammate finished top 10. Sometimes two. They were not one-hit-wonders either. Colville, Lynn Patrick, and Watson.

Awards and Recognition Hextall was top 10 in Hart voting twice, but never higher than fifth. Hextall also earned four all-star nominations. During Hextall's prime the right-wing all-stars were Hextall (3/1), Bauer (0/3), Carr (2/0), Drillon (1/1), and Richard (0/1). Richard's career was just getting underway though.

Playoffs Hextall's Rangers made the playoffs six times, though were one-and-done every year but once. Their one successful playoff campaign resulted in a Stanley Cup championship. Hextall led the Rangers in playoff goals during that run.

Longevity Hextall was an iron man during his six year prime, never missing a single game until after WWII.


Last edited by Crease: 01-10-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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01-10-2014, 10:08 PM
  #31
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Given the above, my rankings are:

2. Andy Bathgate
3. Rod Gilbert
4. Bryan Hextall

Bathgate was uber-elite during the O6. He was right in the mix with the likes of Rocket Richard, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Ted Lindsay, and Jean Beliveau. His regular season resume is remarkable in any era. I can't really fault him for his playoff record. His team was only upset once, and even then he had an excellent series.

If you have Gilbert ahead of Bathgate, it can only be because Gilbert compiled more points over a longer period of time. Bathgate peaked much higher, and I don't think that is debatable. He was also more important to his teams.

I have Gilbert ahead of Hextall. There are a lot of caveats to Hextall's resume. Hextall was the dominant goal scorer of his time, but better goal scorers came before and after him. Hextall dominated his peers, but aside from during WWII it was the weakest era in NHL history. Hextall scored the most goals for the Rangers during the 1940 playoffs, but third on the team in playoff points. Gilbert's tenure and raw totals win out, and I'm usually a big peak/playoffs guy.


Last edited by Crease: 01-10-2014 at 10:38 PM.
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01-11-2014, 01:13 AM
  #32
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I have Hextall and Gilbert very close to one another, but in the end Hextall is nudging out Gilbert for 3. Even in a fairly weak era, being the best goalscorer in the NHL over a period of time is a tremendous accomplishment. That plus his trophy case (led the league in points, AST selections, and Cup) give him an ever-so-slight edge over Gilbert's longevity.

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01-11-2014, 10:09 AM
  #33
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Crease and Greg: I think you're greatly overstating Hextall's production.

Hextall only led Ranger wingers in goal-scoring in 4 seasons and in most of those, he didn't lead by much like Bill Cook did. He led in assists 1 time.

Hextall did score the Cup-clinching goal but it's not as if he dominated the playoffs. In those playoffs he scored 4 goals. Five players on the team scored 3 goals: Watson, Colville, Pike, Pratt, and M. Patrick (4 others scored 2 goals and 2 other Rangers scored 1 goal). In terms of assists, Hextall had 3 assists, which tied him with Smith and Heller for 5th place in assists. Colville led the team in assists with 7, Watson had 6, Shibicky had 5 and Hiller had 4 (and 5 other players had 1 or 2 assists).

Hextall led the team in goals in 4 seasons out of 9 seasons (8 where he played full or close to full seasons and one at the end of his career where he posted unimpressive totals in 43 games). Hextall was part of a very solid Ranger team that won the Cup. I don't believe he was dominant to the extent Cook, Bathgate or even Gilbert were.

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01-11-2014, 11:05 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Obviously because he's my favorite player.
Mine too. He has the best hands this game has ever seen, hands down LOL.

He didn't pile on the points here, partly in fact that they tried pushing him to be like Federov or Bure in the skating department instead of using him for what he was.

Funny about things like this, best player discussions, rarely is it considered that if he had Lang and Straka in NY, he might've been top 3 in this thread.

If he had Colin Campbell and John Muckler picking his line mates, he ends up being scoffed at over the notion that he should at least be in the discussion.

Then again, Bure should also get mention. If he doesn't get the last injury, he hangs on a gets to a few hundred more goals for us.

Not worth mentioning, really- because it did not actually happen. But I totally feel ya brotha, it's an argument I've had to sit under for a loooong time now.

So while Kovy and Bure (and also Jagr vs the pre-1980 guys) may have (arguably) been better wingers overall, they just weren't as stat-piling while they wore Blue.

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01-11-2014, 11:11 AM
  #35
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Hey can anyone tell me from memory who was the faster skater between Cook, Hextall, Bathgate, and Gilbert?

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01-11-2014, 11:31 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Hey can anyone tell me from memory who was the faster skater between Cook, Hextall, Bathgate, and Gilbert?
Hard to say who was faster. Bathgate and Gilbert had a more graceful style. Cook and Hextall were bulldogs.

Cook

Quote:
Played a very similar style to that of Gordie Howe - a hard and physically dominating style, overpowering his opponents, going through them instead of around them.
Quote:
He had it all - he was an intelligent hockeyist, charismatic, and a physical force. If he were around for us to see play today we would be in awe of his uncanny stickhandling skills, his "hard and fast" skating, and his fantastic shooting ability. And if you were an opponent of him you surely wouldn't want to get on his bad side for his temper and mean streak were among the most volatile of his era.
Bathgate

Quote:
Andy Bathgate was a hockey stylist--an athletic, graceful skater who handled the puck with skill and flash. Known for his blazing, accurate shot, he was one of the first men to use the slapshot to overpower goaltenders. Bathgate was a creative playmaker on the ice and often did the unexpected, throwing off opposing defenders with imaginative feints and passes.
Quote:
Andy Bathgate was a strong skater, slick stickhandler, powerful shooter, and skilled playmaker.
Quote:
He was known as a smooth-skating playmaker who, through the ten years from 1955 to 1965, was among the most prolific forwards in the National Hockey League, despite playing with the struggling New York Rangers…
Hextall

Quote:
At 5-10, 195 pounds, Bryan Hextall Sr. was a bullish winger who could skate over an enemy defenseman without breaking stride. He played tough, but seldom fought. He didn't feel a man had to drop his gloves to prove himself on the ice.
Quote:
He had a terrific burst of speed , was appropriately tough , and could stickhandle with the best of them.
Gilbert

Quote:
Gilbert was a deceptively fast skater with an ability to elude many of the league's wiliest checkers. He was blessed with a hard shot that often dipped and he didn't shy away from battling hard in the corners or in front of the opposition net.
Quote:
Hadfield, drafted from Chicago, provided toughness while Ratelle and Gilbert, boyhood friends from Montreal...contributed speed and skating ability.

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01-11-2014, 01:37 PM
  #37
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What's everyone doing with Graves and Jagr this round? I need to flesh out spots 5-8 out over the next few days. Where do you see them relative to Bun Cook, Patrick, Dillon and Hadfield?

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01-11-2014, 03:07 PM
  #38
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I'm thinking Dillon, Jagr, Bun, Graves.

Jagr's placement might be a result of recency bias though with respect to my age.

Chief: But Hextall was leading the entire league in points at one point, and was the premiere goal scorer in the league over his peak.

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01-11-2014, 04:52 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Hey can anyone tell me from memory who was the faster skater between Cook, Hextall, Bathgate, and Gilbert?
I only saw Gilbert in this group.
His speed was superior not quite elite, IMO

Bathgate, I get the feeling a comparable AS TO STYLE would be JT Miller. Smooth, some power, very graceful, deceptively fast.

Only way to be sure on all of ;em might be to sync video footage, do some math, crunch the numbers. Even still, no way to know when guy is/is not turning on the jets.

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01-12-2014, 01:10 AM
  #40
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What's everyone doing with Graves and Jagr this round? I need to flesh out spots 5-8 out over the next few days. Where do you see them relative to Bun Cook, Patrick, Dillon and Hadfield?
I didn't have Graves top 10 and still don't , so I'm not doing anything with him this round.

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01-12-2014, 02:08 AM
  #41
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Crease and Greg: I think you're greatly overstating Hextall's production.

Hextall only led Ranger wingers in goal-scoring in 4 seasons and in most of those, he didn't lead by much like Bill Cook did. He led in assists 1 time.

Hextall did score the Cup-clinching goal but it's not as if he dominated the playoffs. In those playoffs he scored 4 goals. Five players on the team scored 3 goals: Watson, Colville, Pike, Pratt, and M. Patrick (4 others scored 2 goals and 2 other Rangers scored 1 goal). In terms of assists, Hextall had 3 assists, which tied him with Smith and Heller for 5th place in assists. Colville led the team in assists with 7, Watson had 6, Shibicky had 5 and Hiller had 4 (and 5 other players had 1 or 2 assists).

Hextall led the team in goals in 4 seasons out of 9 seasons (8 where he played full or close to full seasons and one at the end of his career where he posted unimpressive totals in 43 games). Hextall was part of a very solid Ranger team that won the Cup. I don't believe he was dominant to the extent Cook, Bathgate or even Gilbert were.
It's possible you may also be over-stating Hextall's production. There is more to it than scoring. Whether Hextall was winning an Art Ross or not, he was, in his time, considered an all around excellent player and the best RW in the entire league. Not just the best on the Rangers, the entire league. From the Hockey Hall of Fame: "Hextall was considered the dominant right winger of his day, earning First Team All-Star selections in 1940, 1941, and 1942 before adding a Second Team All-Star selection to his resume in 1943."

And here is the key part, for me at least. Everything I've read was not just that the dude could score, but that he was a very good defensive player and a physical beast. This quote about Hextall, from a reporter who actually saw him play, says an awful, awful lot about the Hextall's complete game:

Herb Goren, a long time reporter for the New York Sun once said "He was the hardest bodychecking forward I had seen in more than forty years of watching hockey."

^ That is a pretty huge statement. His scoring really cannot be minimized either. From the NY Ranger web site: "Hextall was the last Rangers' player to lead the NHL in scoring, a feat he accomplished in 1941-42. He is also the last Rangers player to have led the league in goals in back-to-back seasons." Again, these are rather large feats in Ranger land. So large that no other NYR has managed to duplicate either of them during the past 70 years.

I am all for to each his own, but me personally placing Hextall in the three spot goes beyond point production. Yes, being the last NYR to lead the league in scoring or the last to lead the league in goals back to back seasons is pretty huge, as is his three consecutive First Team All Star selections as the best RW in the league. But on top of all that he was very good defensively and hit like a truck... nice! That, to me, is a pretty elite level total package player. Hextall scoring the Cup winning goal in OT is pretty cool, too, and NYR fans should enjoy this blast from the past NY Times article from April 1940



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01-12-2014, 03:14 PM
  #42
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Right, I'm back after my holiday.

I have Cook, Bathgate, Gilbert and Hextall locked in as my top 4 (in order at this stage). I can certainly understand the argument for Hextall to move up but I still have Gilbert nudging him out.

I found it really difficult to split Cook, Dillon and Patrick in the initial vote and still do now although I'm leaning towards Patrick, Dillon then Cook, but they'd be 5-7.

I'm thinking Hadfield over Graves for #8, but again I find them very similar.

Jagr, despite having one of the most brilliant seasons ever, I can't put any higher than 10th

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01-12-2014, 10:54 PM
  #43
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**Admin Note**

I definitely need more time, so deadline for Round 2 Vote 1 ballots is extended to Thursday January 16th. PM me your ballots by noon on Thursday.


Last edited by Crease: 01-12-2014 at 11:19 PM.
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01-13-2014, 12:09 AM
  #44
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NYR fans should enjoy this blast from the past NY Times article from April 1940


I will, thanks.

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01-13-2014, 01:28 AM
  #45
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What's everyone doing with Graves and Jagr this round? I need to flesh out spots 5-8 out over the next few days. Where do you see them relative to Bun Cook, Patrick, Dillon and Hadfield?
Graves is not in my top 8. Still deciding where he ranks.

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01-13-2014, 01:53 AM
  #46
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Graves is not in my top 8. Still deciding where he ranks.
Have you sent in a preliminary list? You're not listed on the first post as an eligible voter. If not, you should.

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01-13-2014, 01:28 PM
  #47
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Given the above, my rankings are:

2. Andy Bathgate
3. Rod Gilbert
4. Bryan Hextall

Bathgate was uber-elite during the O6. He was right in the mix with the likes of Rocket Richard, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Ted Lindsay, and Jean Beliveau. His regular season resume is remarkable in any era. I can't really fault him for his playoff record. His team was only upset once, and even then he had an excellent series.

If you have Gilbert ahead of Bathgate, it can only be because Gilbert compiled more points over a longer period of time. Bathgate peaked much higher, and I don't think that is debatable. He was also more important to his teams.

I have Gilbert ahead of Hextall. There are a lot of caveats to Hextall's resume. Hextall was the dominant goal scorer of his time, but better goal scorers came before and after him. Hextall dominated his peers, but aside from during WWII it was the weakest era in NHL history. Hextall scored the most goals for the Rangers during the 1940 playoffs, but third on the team in playoff points. Gilbert's tenure and raw totals win out, and I'm usually a big peak/playoffs guy.
Concurs with what I said, not gonna get bent out over some differences in order of 2-4 inclusive, but looks like it is shaping out this way.

You wanted 8 ranked to establish top 5. We appear to have a finalized top 4, even if every slot still needs to be determined. That leaves 5, and the follow up 3.

Patrick? Does he deserve to be #5?
Thoughts?
Thanks.

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01-13-2014, 02:43 PM
  #48
Greg02
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Patrick has less AST selections on the weaker wing side in a (slightly) weaker era (I think) while being a significantly less impressive playoff performer than Dillon. Also think Bun should be above him, but it's a little hard since Bun was the third best player on his own line.

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01-13-2014, 03:03 PM
  #49
Crease
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Yeah I'm also wondering how much Bun Cook benefited from his linemates. Would love to get some splits on how he did when the Bread Line wasn't intact.

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01-13-2014, 03:15 PM
  #50
mike14
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IMO Dillon's playoffs gives him the edge over Patrick, who again has the edge over Cook.

Despite some meh playoff numbers, Patrick did lead the league in goals and was 2nd in points twice. He's also only 1 2nd AST behind Dillon

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