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2009 Opening night starting lineup

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01-11-2014, 03:15 PM
  #1
Jester9881
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2009 Opening night starting lineup

I'm just going to post this, and kindfully suggest it get stickied. This way, when anyone complains about how long the rebuild is taking, they can come here and get a swift kick of reality...

ISLANDERS
Goaltenders
30 Dwayne Roloson
43 Martin Biron

Defensemen
24 Radek Martinek - 2 Mark Streit
32 Brendan Witt - 8 Bruno Gervais
25 Andy Sutton - 44 Freddy Meyer

Forwards
16 Jon Sim - 12 Josh Bailey - 7 Trent Hunter
26 Matt Moulson - 91 John Tavares - 21 Kyle Okposo
20 Sean Bergenheim - 10 Richard Park - 15 Jeff Tambellini
40 Joel Rechlicz - 11 Nate Thompson - 28 Tim Jackman

Let that sink if for awhile

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01-11-2014, 03:16 PM
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Jester9881
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And this was technically the third year of the rebuild. It was a scorched earth rebuild that basically started from nothing.

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01-11-2014, 03:17 PM
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Jester9881
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Well? Anyone have the testicles to come here, in this thread and say the team isn't improving fast enough for your liking?

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01-11-2014, 03:25 PM
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Snow Must GO!!!!!!!!!

All kidding aside, Yeah, that's about as bad as it was since the mid 90's. Unless your are drafting generational talent for a few years (see Pittsburgh) it could take awhile. Also if you are picking #1 but not generational talent it could take even longer (see Edmonton).

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01-11-2014, 03:30 PM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Well? Anyone have the testicles to come here, in this thread and say the team isn't improving fast enough for your liking?
2009 was four years ago. Given that we haven't yet even established ourselves as a regular playoff bubble team, yeah, I will say that. Sure, the '09 roster is bad — but considering that by 2010 Moulson and Grabner were both lineup regulars and 30-goal scorers (Blake Comeau (!) and P.A. Parenteau also both had breakout seasons, although Comeau's emergence was limited to that season) there's no reason to think that if the franchise had a normal payroll the 2010 or 2011 teams could have made the playoffs.

Wang himself has said that he thought the team was a year behind schedule in making the playoffs for the first time during the rebuild in 2012-2013 rather than 2011-2012. Considering we probably won't make it this year, then how far behind are we now?

And, as has been mentioned, 2009 was already three years into the current rebuild. The 2008 opening day roster was significantly worse.

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01-11-2014, 03:33 PM
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Jester9881
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Originally Posted by MatthewBarnabysTears View Post
2009 was four years ago. Given that we haven't yet even established ourselves as a regular playoff bubble team, yeah, I will say that. Sure, the '09 roster is bad but considering that by 2010 Moulson and Grabner were both lineup regulars and 30-goal scorers (Blake Comeau also scored over 20 goals!) there's no reason to think that if the franchise had a normal payroll the 2010 or 2011 teams could have made the playoffs.

Wang himself has said that he thought the team was a year behind schedule in making the playoffs for the first time during the rebuild in 2012-2013 rather than 2011-2012. Considering we probably won't make it this year, then how far behind are we now?

And, as has been mentioned, 2009 was already three years into the current rebuild. The 2008 opening day roster was significantly worse.
Yeah? Where is Blake Comeau now? He was a 2nd line winger for us that year! The point is, the team has improved every single season since the rebuild. Considering what we had to work with, and the resources we had, what more do you want?

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01-11-2014, 03:35 PM
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Jester9881
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You say if the payroll was higher the rebuild would have been further along. What free agent was coming here?

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01-11-2014, 03:41 PM
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Frankie41987
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Don't forget the fact that we don't have the pull that LA or Chicago or pittsburgh has in terms of pulling free agents. A lot of people complain about the drafting, the what if's, but I would be a hell of a lot more frustrated to be a fan of a team like the leafs. They have everything going for them in terms of market, pull and everything else and although have been better the past year and half, have struggled for a long time.

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01-11-2014, 03:42 PM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
You say if the payroll was higher the rebuild would have been further along. What free agent was coming here?
It seems silly to debate specific players although, in retrospect, I definitely wish we had offered Ehrhoff the contract Buffalo gave him. Fact is, guys sign in middling or mediocre hockey markets all the time when those teams are willing to pay a premium (Columbus has a good record signing UFAs in recent years, for example). I think, and the season results seemed to bear this out, that at the very least the 2011-2012 team could have been a playoff contender with a couple upgrades on defense. Perhaps the 2010-2011 team also could have contended with a couple defensive upgrades after all, Roloson played significantly better once we dealt him to Tampa Bay.

If it is the case that "we've improved every year," then that improvement has been too incremental to be praiseworthy. Considering that, approaching 48 games, we're currently way behind where we were last year when we eked into the playoffs, I'm not even willing to accept that claim.

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01-11-2014, 03:49 PM
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Jester9881
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Didn't we offer Ehrhoff more money? Roloson played well after the trade, but not only did he regress a ton the following season..... he's completely out of the game now, so he would have no bearing on todays team. I also seem to remember there being some beef between he and a bunch of players on the roster.

Second. This season isn't even over yet, and it's already a failure compared to last year?! Blasphamous

Not to mention the FACT, that no one, including everyone here expected the Islanders to make the playoffs last year.

That aside, you don't see Vanek as an improvement on the top line? You don't see the emergence of CdH, Strome and Nelson an improvement?

There's been plenty of improvement if you're willing to except the fact that we were never in a position to rebuild in 3 years like most teams can. Sit back and enjoy it, because we were in a much darker place not long ago.... and they're on the right trajectory to get real good real soon.

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01-11-2014, 03:58 PM
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Frankie41987
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...o-free-agency/

This article talks Erhoff rejecting the Isles offer. It also mentions Paul Martin and Dan hamhuis also rejecting offers from the isles. Its very easily to be frustrated with the teams seemingly stand still approach at improving the team through free agency, but I think its a little shortsighted to assume Snow is of the mindset that the team doesn't need approvement. As fans, I don't think we realize just how hard it is for a team thats been struggling for 20 years to sign players.

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01-11-2014, 04:03 PM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Didn't we offer Ehrhoff more money? Roloson played well after the trade, but not only did he regress a ton the following season..... he's completely out of the game now, so he would have no bearing on todays team. I also seem to remember there being some beef between he and a bunch of players on the roster.

Second. This season isn't even over yet, and it's already a failure compared to last year?! Blasphamous

Not to mention the FACT, that no one, including everyone here expected the Islanders to make the playoffs last year.

That aside, you don't see Vanek as an improvement on the top line? You don't see the emergence of CdH, Strome and Nelson an improvement?

There's been plenty of improvement if you're willing to except the fact that we were never in a position to rebuild in 3 years like most teams can. Sit back and enjoy it, because we were in a much darker place not long ago.... and they're on the right trajectory to get real good real soon.
It's not a failure yet, it's just that it's unfair to say that we've improved. It seems likely that we've regressed, but obviously we can't full tell until the season is over.

I thought we had the talent to contend for the 8th spot last year. I thought that in 2011-2012 too, if things broke right and a starting goalie emerged early (it didn't happen). I think a bunch of people here thought that both years.

Vanek's great. I won't critique that trade via hindsight. I'm glad De Haan, Strome, and Nelson are doing well so far in the roles we've given them. But there's still a lot of room for progress all around, and I think it's fair to suggest that some of it should have come sooner.

I also think that this team's development has been needlessly held back by lack of goaltending. Maybe we did make a real attempt to trade for Bernier or Schneider, and they can't be criticized on that front; but when we brought back Nabaokov there was no excuse for not bringing in another insurance-policy type goalie (a lot of us here were talking about Khudobin prior to last offseason; he signed a pretty cheap deal with Carolina). If we do make a playoff run, how painful would it be to fall just short because we spent weeks throwing Anders Nilsson/Kevin Poulin out there every game when Nabokov went down for the first time?

I'm generally a positive-minded fan. I'm willing to withhold criticism in situations where the front office took chances that didn't work. But I think it's fair for fans to have standards far above what we've met so far.

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01-11-2014, 04:04 PM
  #13
blinkman360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewBarnabysTears View Post
2009 was four years ago. Given that we haven't yet even established ourselves as a regular playoff bubble team, yeah, I will say that. Sure, the '09 roster is bad but considering that by 2010 Moulson and Grabner were both lineup regulars and 30-goal scorers (Blake Comeau (!) and P.A. Parenteau also both had breakout seasons, although Comeau's emergence was limited to that season) there's no reason to think that if the franchise had a normal payroll the 2010 or 2011 teams could have made the playoffs.

Wang himself has said that he thought the team was a year behind schedule in making the playoffs for the first time during the rebuild in 2012-2013 rather than 2011-2012. Considering we probably won't make it this year, then how far behind are we now?

And, as has been mentioned, 2009 was already three years into the current rebuild. The 2008 opening day roster was significantly worse.
Didnt the rebuild start after the '07-08 season? If anything the rebuild was only a year and a few months old/young by opening night '09.

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01-11-2014, 04:06 PM
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LaddyBuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Didn't we offer Ehrhoff more money? Roloson played well after the trade, but not only did he regress a ton the following season..... he's completely out of the game now, so he would have no bearing on todays team. I also seem to remember there being some beef between he and a bunch of players on the roster.

Second. This season isn't even over yet, and it's already a failure compared to last year?! Blasphamous

Not to mention the FACT, that no one, including everyone here expected the Islanders to make the playoffs last year.

That aside, you don't see Vanek as an improvement on the top line? You don't see the emergence of CdH, Strome and Nelson an improvement?

There's been plenty of improvement if you're willing to except the fact that we were never in a position to rebuild in 3 years like most teams can. Sit back and enjoy it, because we were in a much darker place not long ago.... and they're on the right trajectory to get real good real soon.
While I still would like to see an ownership change, and do see flaws in the rebuild, somehow as far as Snow, I still "get it." The team could someday soon be better served by a more experienced GM, but that team in 2009 wouldn't have lasted to the Calder Cup. It's been a sloppy rebuild, but it would have had to have gone perfect for every aspect to work. It's been substandard in some ways,

I think the big flaw in Snow's approach is that there have been significantly fewer large contracts that the Islanders could eat that are worth the trouble. Keith Ballard would be the one defenseman off of the top of my head whose superfluousness and salary on a stacked roster also elicited so many trade proposals. I can't think of any useful veteran forwards who aren't skating in concrete who would fit the bill, and though it sounds crazy, Bryzgalov would have been an option which would have cost nothing.

That being said, the team knows where they stand with their depth a little better than they could have, and they seem to be 2 defensemen and a reliable goalie away from going on a legitimate, "okay, now we can talk about a p_____f p__h" sort of streak.

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01-11-2014, 04:11 PM
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That's just weird seeing Sim-Bailey-Hunter over Moulson-Tavares-Okposo. What was Gordo thinking?

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01-11-2014, 04:18 PM
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That's just weird seeing Sim-Bailey-Hunter over Moulson-Tavares-Okposo. What was Gordo thinking?
Gordon was too preoccupied with his overspeed system to think about personnel. 'Don't blame the system!'

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01-11-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie41987 View Post
Don't forget the fact that we don't have the pull that LA or Chicago or pittsburgh has in terms of pulling free agents. A lot of people complain about the drafting, the what if's, but I would be a hell of a lot more frustrated to be a fan of a team like the leafs. They have everything going for them in terms of market, pull and everything else and although have been better the past year and half, have struggled for a long time.
I would like to think that if Vanek stays, being on a team with Tavvy and Vanek would interest some free agents.
This will definitely become more appealing if they can establish themselves as playoff team.
Just a few thoughts.

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01-11-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KingLio21093 View Post
That's just weird seeing Sim-Bailey-Hunter over Moulson-Tavares-Okposo. What was Gordo thinking?
Moulson-Tavares-Okposo had 29, 0, and 9 games of NHL experience prior to that game, respectively. Labeled the guys who had at least played a full season as the "first" line.

But then you look at the ice times:

Tavares: 22:05
Okposo: 22:18
Moulson: 19:20

vs

Bailey: 19:29
Sim: 17:37
Hunter: 16:13

That game did go to OT, but no wonder guys were getting hurt under Gordon. Geez. The Chef played 23+, Martinek 25+, Streit 26+.

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01-11-2014, 05:04 PM
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2008 is more illustrative. Just take a look at 50 contracts Snow inherited! Scary.

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01-11-2014, 05:06 PM
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Gordon was too preoccupied with his overspeed system to think about personnel. 'Don't blame the system!'
The system and Joey McDonald clinched us the first overall.

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01-11-2014, 06:55 PM
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Eh, even Snow admitted he screwed up in the summertime. He's done some good since he picked up after Milbury, but he's screwed a few things up as well. How much of the blame is all Wang though, that's the only grey area I see. They take turns hiding behind each other, it feels like...


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01-11-2014, 07:42 PM
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Jester9881
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Hey, believe me I'm not trying to say Snow has been perfect. But every GM has their warts. When you take into account the shape this franchise was in when he took over, as compared to today.... he's actually done a pretty damn good job overall.

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01-11-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Hey, believe me I'm not trying to say Snow has been perfect. But every GM has their warts. When you take into account the shape this franchise was in when he took over, as compared to today.... he's actually done a pretty damn good job overall.
I also think he's done a pretty decent job so far. I don't know how people can really get on him about his draft record, he's gotten a lot of value for picks beyond the first round. He also has a knack for jumping back in the first round and grabbing players he likes (Nelson and De naan). Both the guys are looking pretty good right now. Not to mention his ability to nab decent guys on the wire and sign some pretty amazing contracts. It's very easy as a fan to be frustrated by the lack of big time free agents, but as I mentioned above, we have heard multiple times he's attempted to sign some guys and was turned down. So it seems he's more willing to make offers than some give him credit for.
My only concern with Snow is the ability as a GM to transition from a rebuilding team to one that is looking to compete year after year. This means shifting focus from acquiring as much potential talent as possible and hone the ability to recognize the needs of a team. Sometimes that's a lot different than acquiring the best statistical guys as any given position (look at those ranger teams from the late 90's/early 2000's).

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01-11-2014, 10:27 PM
  #24
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without a doubt, things have improved over the past 4 years.

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01-12-2014, 01:29 AM
  #25
bigtim1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie41987 View Post
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...o-free-agency/

This article talks Erhoff rejecting the Isles offer. It also mentions Paul Martin and Dan hamhuis also rejecting offers from the isles. Its very easily to be frustrated with the teams seemingly stand still approach at improving the team through free agency, but I think its a little shortsighted to assume Snow is of the mindset that the team doesn't need approvement. As fans, I don't think we realize just how hard it is for a team thats been struggling for 20 years to sign players.
exactly. only way we get players over here is if we dramatically overpay for their services, and because this is a small market, the return on the investment doesn't look that good from a business standpoint. it doesnt help matters that wangs been burnt with the two biggest contracts hes given out (yashin and DP), so i can understand why hes not too keen on overpaying free agents. it would be nice if we had an owner who cared more about winning than the bottom line, but wang isnt the only owner who thinks like that.

i really dont look at 2009 as "year 3" of the rebuild, i think of it as the first year of the rebuild, and i just erase the memory of the god awful 07-08, 08-09 seasons. i remember praying we'd finish last and win the lottery after 08-09 bc tavares was the most hyped prospect i could remember since crosby, and i knew that if this rebuild was going to be successful, we'd need a crosby like centerpiece. it seems like we are perpetually spinning wheels in the mud, but in the contemporary NHL, this is the way you build a contender, especially in a small market like the one the islanders are in.

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