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Ranger Scouts watching Colorado tonight.

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Old
01-12-2014, 02:29 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Pretty sure they just had a few injuries on do and he wasn't called up.

What anout the wild? They could be a team to deal w too
maybe Coyle.. one can hope.. id love him. another big kid..

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01-12-2014, 02:30 AM
  #52
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What about Stefan Elliott? He's a RHD and bigger than Barrie
Elliot is not as ready and much softer than Barrie. Barrie plays reasonably physical and has a solid/strong build, just not ideal height. Elliot is taller, not really "bigger" and plays smaller. There's a difference between saying size matters and height matters. Height alone is meaningless. Colorado would give up Elliot for 1/3 the cost of Barrie because he's 1/3 as promising right now.

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01-12-2014, 02:42 AM
  #53
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Why are we so eager to add McGinn? He would end up on the 4th line as we are currently made up.

Sure if we deal Callahan he'd be a nice addition to our 3rd line, but that's hardly a given.

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01-12-2014, 02:44 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
What about Stefan Elliott? He's a RHD and bigger than Barrie
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Pretty sure they just had a few injuries on do and he wasn't called up.

What anout the wild? They could be a team to deal w too
That's honestly who I wanted a while ago.

I think I had something like this

Staal + Boyle + 3rd

for

Statsny + Elliot + 2nd

in an offseason thread.

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01-12-2014, 02:50 AM
  #55
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Why are we so eager to add McGinn? He would end up on the 4th line as we are currently made up.

Sure if we deal Callahan he'd be a nice addition to our 3rd line, but that's hardly a given.
Jamie McGinn isn't a fourth liner on any team in the NHL, least of all ours. I don't know if you watch him, so I'm not going to accuse you of stat grabbing, but the statement alone sounds like a classic case of it. McGinn is a ton like Hagelin. An ideal third liner who can play on the second. When he plays top six minutes, he produces fairly consistently. With Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Stastny, Parenteau, Tanguay and MacKinnon (seven guys) all ahead of him in a very talented Colorado offense, he doesn't get those minutes a lot and instead plays with guys like Mitchell and Talbot 90% of the time. He would have more chances at the top six here as we're nowhere near as rich offensively and more PP time and would be a nice option as a larger, much more physical almost identical to Hagelin. Even so, he's not a fourth liner anywhere. He's a good hockey player.

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01-12-2014, 03:53 AM
  #56
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Rangers scouts have been at Avs games the last month or so, nothing big out of this

It would seem to me that this would make it more serious than less serious.

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01-12-2014, 04:07 AM
  #57
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Jamie McGinn isn't a fourth liner on any team in the NHL, least of all ours. I don't know if you watch him, so I'm not going to accuse you of stat grabbing, but the statement alone sounds like a classic case of it. McGinn is a ton like Hagelin. An ideal third liner who can play on the second. When he plays top six minutes, he produces fairly consistently. With Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Stastny, Parenteau, Tanguay and MacKinnon (seven guys) all ahead of him in a very talented Colorado offense, he doesn't get those minutes a lot and instead plays with guys like Mitchell and Talbot 90% of the time. He would have more chances at the top six here as we're nowhere near as rich offensively and more PP time and would be a nice option as a larger, much more physical almost identical to Hagelin. Even so, he's not a fourth liner anywhere. He's a good hockey player.
I'm not saying he is a fourth liner, but he'd be the 6th/7th best winger on this team and I'm leaning towards 7th.

He isn't better than Nash, Zuccarello, Hagelin, Kreider, or Callahan. And with the way Pouliot has played lately I'd keep him in the top-9 over McGinn.

McGinn and Pouliot both have 16p, and we can all agree that the Rangers have had more trouble scoring than the Avs - making Pouliot's 16p slightly more impressive.

Add on the fact that Pouliot has been the better player over the past three seasons and I don't see how McGinn would be much of an upgrade.

Of course, if we move Callahan a spot opens up which makes the move more reasonable.

I'm not saying McGinn doesn't have value, I'm saying he doesn't have much value to the Rangers as they are currently made up.

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01-12-2014, 04:20 AM
  #58
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Pouliot hasn't been the better player over the past three seasons. He's put up more points. He's a pretty useless hockey player otherwise. And he's been used in more offensive roles. Phil numbers this year aren't more impressive either because, again, McGinn plays with guys like Mitchell and Talbot while Pouliot gets time with Zucc and Brass and plays PP. Moreover, this team could use toughness, but toughness that can skate and play the game and contribute. That's McGinn. Pouliot is a one year stop gap journeyman with absolutely no higher upside than what we're currently seeing. McGinn would be a good long term acquisition and, if given the same opportunities Pou has been given here, would easily out produce him while providing plenty of things Pou doesn't provide. I'm also taking into consideration moving Cally, which I think is the smart move, which gives you two spots where McGinn would fit. Finally, you want options. We switch the lines up a lot. Even if McGinn did end up taking a lot of shifts with Boyle and Dorsett, those line mates wouldn't be worse than what he currently skates with (and still matches Pou) and he'd be available to slot up if someone is having a bad game, is hurt, goes cold for a long stretch or we decide to move someone else to strengthen a different position. By no means would McGinn be the main piece of any deal, but he's a player I would love to get back as a part because of his versatility, upside and his grit but ability to be more than a fourth liner makes him the kind of player I think we need. That's all. He's no second coming. I just think he'd be a solid pickup that provides lots of utility and some much needed toughness that can actually play.

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01-12-2014, 04:34 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Pouliot hasn't been the better player over the past three seasons. He's put up more points. He's a pretty useless hockey player otherwise. And he's been used in more offensive roles. Phil numbers this year aren't more impressive either because, again, McGinn plays with guys like Mitchell and Talbot while Pouliot gets time with Zucc and Brass and plays PP. Moreover, this team could use toughness, but toughness that can skate and play the game and contribute. That's McGinn. Pouliot is a one year stop gap journeyman with absolutely no higher upside than what we're currently seeing. McGinn would be a good long term acquisition and, if given the same opportunities Pou has been given here, would easily out produce him while providing plenty of things Pou doesn't provide. I'm also taking into consideration moving Cally, which I think is the smart move, which gives you two spots where McGinn would fit. Finally, you want options. We switch the lines up a lot. Even if McGinn did end up taking a lot of shifts with Boyle and Dorsett, those line mates wouldn't be worse than what he currently skates with (and still matches Pou) and he'd be available to slot up if someone is having a bad game, is hurt, goes cold for a long stretch or we decide to move someone else to strengthen a different position. By no means would McGinn be the main piece of any deal, but he's a player I would love to get back as a part because of his versatility, upside and his grit but ability to be more than a fourth liner makes him the kind of player I think we need. That's all. He's no second coming. I just think he'd be a solid pickup that provides lots of utility and some much needed toughness that can actually play.
To each and his own. Pouliot has been a fantastic ES scorer (until he became a Ranger at least) and has been driving play well, which I prefer over McGinn's crash-bang game. I agree that McGinn is a very good player and is definitely a legit 3rd liner.

My point though is that McGinn as a player carries pretty good value, but that the Rangers wouldn't really be able to utilize it fully and that it would be redundant to ask for him in a trade.

Boyle-Moore-McGinn would be by far the best 4th line in the league, but is it wise to tie up so much resources in your 4th line?

But if we move Callahan, and I agree with you that it is the smartest course of action, McGinn would be an excellent replacement. Especially since I consider Callahan to be a wasted asset on a 3rd line (where I think he belongs on the Rangers), much like McGinn would be on a 4th line.

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01-12-2014, 04:53 AM
  #60
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Not gonna argue any of it. I'm not a fan of Pouliot. I'm glad he's contributing here, but I wouldn't want him for more than another year. He's not good enough to be a genuine top sixer and he's really not a third liner so he ends up being a out of place third line guy with PP specialties. I just have never liked him. I groaned when we signed him and I admit he's impressed me lately and had me eating some crow amongst friends.

Callahan I feel it's unwise to give the necessary pay day to and we need to capitalize on the return he can land us. McGinn will never be Cally, but as a pure third liner, I think he provides close to as much as Cally could on the third line (at ES) at a fraction of the cost. McGinn can play RW and has before. Imagine a third line of: Hagelin - Miller - McGinn. Could be one of the best out there. Speed, physicality, hustle, intensity, forechecking and he ability to put up points while taking care of their own. Any one of them could easily slide up for spot duty on the second line. If we can land Barrie + McGinn in a reasonable trade, I think it's good for us. Try to turn Cally into a guy whose ready to be a middle pair RHD. Barrie plays bottom pair and PP. Re-sign Girardi. I mean, I'd rather add to Cally (pick/B prospects/Brassard/etc.) and go for someone that can fill that spot, like Buff, than just get middling prospects for him. Unless Sather can mine a genuine A prospect from someone.

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brass/Richie - Zucc
Hagelin - Miller/Brass - McGinn
Dorsett - Moore - Boyle
McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Byfuglien
Moore/Allen - Barrie

We'd probably be doing MDZ + 2nd/3rd and Cally + Kristo/Fast + picks to get there! but it seems a lot better without a lot of tinkering. I don't know. It's late. I was drinking earlier. I shouldn't even be up.

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01-12-2014, 05:30 AM
  #61
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That's honestly who I wanted a while ago.

I think I had something like this

Staal + Boyle + 3rd

for

Statsny + Elliot + 2nd

in an offseason thread.
I was thinking something like MDZ + Richards for Statsny (not serious of course) but then I realized, Statsny is a UFA so hell no would i trade Staal for Statsny, especially in the offseason!

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/COL?year=2014

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01-12-2014, 05:30 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Not gonna argue any of it. I'm not a fan of Pouliot. I'm glad he's contributing here, but I wouldn't want him for more than another year. He's not good enough to be a genuine top sixer and he's really not a third liner so he ends up being a out of place third line guy with PP specialties. I just have never liked him. I groaned when we signed him and I admit he's impressed me lately and had me eating some crow amongst friends.

Callahan I feel it's unwise to give the necessary pay day to and we need to capitalize on the return he can land us. McGinn will never be Cally, but as a pure third liner, I think he provides close to as much as Cally could on the third line (at ES) at a fraction of the cost. McGinn can play RW and has before. Imagine a third line of: Hagelin - Miller - McGinn. Could be one of the best out there. Speed, physicality, hustle, intensity, forechecking and he ability to put up points while taking care of their own. Any one of them could easily slide up for spot duty on the second line. If we can land Barrie + McGinn in a reasonable trade, I think it's good for us. Try to turn Cally into a guy whose ready to be a middle pair RHD. Barrie plays bottom pair and PP. Re-sign Girardi. I mean, I'd rather add to Cally (pick/B prospects/Brassard/etc.) and go for someone that can fill that spot, like Buff, than just get middling prospects for him. Unless Sather can mine a genuine A prospect from someone.

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brass/Richie - Zucc
Hagelin - Miller/Brass - McGinn
Dorsett - Moore - Boyle
McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Byfuglien
Moore/Allen - Barrie

We'd probably be doing MDZ + 2nd/3rd and Cally + Kristo/Fast + picks to get there! but it seems a lot better without a lot of tinkering. I don't know. It's late. I was drinking earlier. I shouldn't even be up.
I like how you went for Byfuglien, the Rangers should go all out for him. He is exactly what we need and the Jets don't seem to realize what they have.

I'd put the lines differently and keep Strålman over Girardi (traded for assets that are used for Buff) though.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Richie/Brass-Zucc
McGinn-Brass/Miller-Pouliot
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

McDonagh-Strålman/Buff
Staal-Buff/Strålman
Moore/Allen-Barrie

We have the depth to have three scoring lines and one defensive line instead of two scoring lines, one defensive line, and one cr@p line. Boyle-Moore-Dorsett may not get a ton of minutes, but they take a huge percentage of the defensive draws for us so there is no need for an additional "checking" line. One of the reasons that they don't play much is that we control play so well these days there aren't that many defensive draws to take.

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01-12-2014, 05:41 AM
  #63
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Let's get Barrie and the kid from Ducks so we could really be the smallest softest teams in the league. Both guys 5'10 and under...exactly what we need.
Don't look at size and toughness as some kind of averge size and toughness on the team.

If you have a good transition game, you can carry PF's. If you have a bunch of 6'2 players, you won't get up ice and the PF's will be completely ineffective.

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01-12-2014, 05:46 AM
  #64
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Don't look at size and toughness as some kind of averge size and toughness on the team.

If you have a good transition game, you can carry PF's. If you have a bunch of 6'2 players, you won't get up ice and the PF's will be completely ineffective.
This team would be scary with a good transition game. Our transition game is at best average at the moment and we are still one of the better possession teams in the league.

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01-12-2014, 06:36 AM
  #65
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I was thinking something like MDZ + Richards for Statsny (not serious of course) but then I realized, Statsny is a UFA so hell no would i trade Staal for Statsny, especially in the offseason!

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/COL?year=2014
MDZ + Richards for Statsny wouldn't work number 1.

Number 2 leading into this offseason would have been the smart time to trade for Statsny.

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01-12-2014, 06:39 AM
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This team would be scary with a good transition game. Our transition game is at best average at the moment and we are still one of the better possession teams in the league.
Agreed, although I feel like we have been better as of late.

Dare I say, it really is about transitioning into the system and it seems they are getting used to it?

I've noticed Girardi and Staal's breakout passes being crisp the past couple, add that in with McD's and it's a winning formula.

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01-12-2014, 06:40 AM
  #67
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Why are we so eager to add McGinn? He would end up on the 4th line as we are currently made up.

Sure if we deal Callahan he'd be a nice addition to our 3rd line, but that's hardly a given.
Because there is no one else on the Avs. That's not a reason to make a deal. The Avs first round pick in June is the best asset they have. Barrie is a 5-10 defenseman. Who is the center piece in the deal? McGinn? Barrie?

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01-12-2014, 10:33 AM
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Because there is no one else on the Avs. That's not a reason to make a deal. The Avs first round pick in June is the best asset they have. Barrie is a 5-10 defenseman. Who is the center piece in the deal? McGinn? Barrie?
I think its a Stastny + Barrie deal centered around MDZ++

i doubt its ROR his value is a **** ton higher then MDZ (we shouldve did that last feb, when we had the chance)

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01-12-2014, 10:50 AM
  #69
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Because there is no one else on the Avs. That's not a reason to make a deal. The Avs first round pick in June is the best asset they have. Barrie is a 5-10 defenseman. Who is the center piece in the deal? McGinn? Barrie?
Barrie. Young rd that I think is ready now. McGinn would be good for next yr. maybe add boyle in the deal

Pouliott needs to continue is recent play or I don't resign him as a ufa .

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01-12-2014, 11:04 AM
  #70
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these are realistic players and prospects that Rangers should be interested in... prospects in bold


Jamie McGinn
Cody McLeod
Tyson Barrie
Erik Johnson (doubt they would move him but you never know)

Duncan Siemens 1st round in 2011 LD with snarl and grit that can play in top 4.. a more physical version of McDonagh..
Joseph Blandisi 6th round in 2012
Troy Bourke 3rd round in 2012
Michael Sgarbossa UFA out of the OHL...play making center..
Gabriel Beaupre LD tough defensive dman
Chris Bigras LD offensive dman 2ed round in 2013
Mason Geertsen LD defensive dman 4th round in 2013


Siemens better be in any deal for Del Zotto even if they have to add someone like Boyle... Rangers need more grit on the backend... too many times the other team can go in front of the net not touched...

A physical, in-your-face defender with size and an underrated offensive game, Siemens is the complete package. Capable of playing half of the game, Siemens is comfortable playing at both ends of the ice and in any situation, be it even-strength, with the man advantage or on the penalty kill.

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01-12-2014, 11:07 AM
  #71
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Pouliot has been a fantastic ES scorer (until he became a Ranger at least) and has been driving play well, which I prefer over McGinn's crash-bang game.
McGinn's game is a solid one, not at a 4th line level. He is a solid 3rd line player. Not to be miscast as a 2nd liner.

Pouliots' track record is what? Yes, he is noticeable right now. But was not for longer stretches. And as for him being a fantastic ES goal scorer, how many times has he notched 20 goals?

Not to make this a McGinn vs. Poulliot comparison, just pointing out a few things.

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01-12-2014, 11:12 AM
  #72
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Size means nothing in all honesty.

You can still play with an edge and be hard to play against at 5'7.

Darius Kasparitis would be disappointed in you.
Keith Ballard is another good example of smaller, but physical, defenseman. The guy throws some amazing hip-checks. I'm not saying we should acquire him -- I think he's close to, or just north of, 30 now -- but it seemed pertinent to your post.

Just a search for "Ballard hip check" produces a plethora of results:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=balla...p%20check&sm=1

One of my favorite checks of his (but mostly because it's on a Penguin):

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01-12-2014, 11:22 AM
  #73
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I only see McGinn as an option if Callahan or Hagelin is moved. They have different strengths, but they're all 3rd line wingers who can play on a scoring line in a pinch.

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01-12-2014, 11:51 AM
  #74
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You all talk about size and being physical, doesn't matter if the guy they get is physical or not. He will come play for the Rangers and become a sissy. You can put Lucic and Chara on this team and they will stop throwing their weight around. Its the New York Rangers philosophy. Be Soft at all Costs.

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01-12-2014, 12:37 PM
  #75
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You all talk about size and being physical, doesn't matter if the guy they get is physical or not. He will come play for the Rangers and become a sissy. You can put Lucic and Chara on this team and they will stop throwing their weight around. Its the New York Rangers philosophy. Be Soft at all Costs.
it would not shock me. Nash was way more physical with the Jackets and even then he was not really aggressive...

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