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NY RANGERS POST ALL-STAR GAME....The Saga of what is and what should be

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Old
01-21-2007, 10:34 AM
  #26
RangerBoy
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Someone needs to tell Jagr who is the boss

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During that break - or, at least, once the team reconvenes for practice on Thursday - Shanahan would like the power play to be reconfigured along more traditional lines, with point shots encouraged and tips, screens and rebound goals the desired result.

But whenever that has been suggested - seemingly on a daily basis by coach Tom Renney over the last two seasons - Jagr has scoffed. Adamant in his conviction that simply blasting away isn't a winning power-play plan and that he can get the Rangers out of any sticky situation, Jagr wants the puck at the right half-boards - even if every team in the NHL knows that and defends appropriately
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/st...p-413236c.html

Read the Shanahan comments in the article

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Old
01-21-2007, 12:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Someone needs to tell Jagr who is the boss
That was the problem in Pittsburgh, nobody could tell him anything, he did what he wanted.

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Old
01-21-2007, 12:35 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Everybody knows the Ranngers need a 2nd C...The Rangewrs will get one..The question is, who goes the other way? I can definetely see one or two 3rd/4th liners, a good prospcet (say Dawes or Callahan)...maybe going the other way....My bet on 3rd/4th liners going would be Hossa/Hall/Ward....

If a trade is slow to be made, my bet is the Rangers NOW have no choice but to call up Dubinskly for the 2nd C (I think they have come to the right conclusion on IMMONEN regarding 2nd C capability) and let the others play where they should.....

The wildcard is whether Prucha is included in a deal for a 2nd line forward instead of a Dawes or callahan...But I don't think so and coming back after the break, he might get one more shot....

So, what should be (and tinted a bit with what I think will be)

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Dubinsky/TRADEE-Shanny
HOlly-Betts-Orts
Culen-Dubinsky/Krog-Hossa/Ward/Hall... (cullen is not a C in my book)
What's the urgency in sacrificing all for this year? I would NOT ruin a player like Dubinsky just for the sake of improving our second line. Especially when we have NHL veterans that have proven they can play there but haven't. It's time for certain players to look themselves in the mirror and take ownership of their games.

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Old
01-21-2007, 12:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Someone needs to tell Jagr who is the boss



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/st...p-413236c.html

Read the Shanahan comments in the article
No surprise there.
Jagr likes different power play style than Shanny, so they will argue about that all the time...but it should be Renney's decision how it should be played, of course he has to listen to both of his 600 goal club players, but he should have final word

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Old
01-21-2007, 01:02 PM
  #30
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This is what I was referring to yesterday. I don't think you're going to coach Jagr out of his ways. Which is why I was suggesting building a second unit with a more north american feel. Teams would have to be prepared to deal with either one, and they are drastically different. The cost of this, of course would be losing HappyJagr and getting back GrumpyJagr, once Renney decides to go with the Shanahan unit over the Jagrunit. Then we create a rift in the lockerroom over whose team it is, everyone chooses sides and we create a totally toxic environment for young players to come into, and maintain our reputation as a total circus. I guess there's no way to make everyone happy.

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Old
01-21-2007, 01:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Kasper, Malik, Ozo, Betts, Ward, Hall , Orr <<<< would any team be interested in any of these guys?

I think Malik, Betts, Kasper for a desperate team at the deadline?
Betts won't be traded, they just gave him a contract extension.

Kaspar, Malik, Ozo all have basically no value. We're not going to be able to get anything for them that will help this team on the ice today. They can possibly be dealt for a pick but that's it.

Orr won't draw any interest

Some teams would be interested in Ward and Hall but again, not going to get anybody who will help this team.

If we're going to improve drastically between now and the deadline than Montoya needs to be traded. He's one of our most valuable player and we already have a star at his position. Move him for a C or D.

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Old
01-21-2007, 01:39 PM
  #32
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It would be nice...

to get a Morrison without giving up Prucha. It would be even nicer if the coach decided that Cullen would look nice on the third line after that, and Betts on a fourth line.

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Old
01-21-2007, 01:43 PM
  #33
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kostik...

it should be Renney's decision...it really isn't though. Renney needs Jagr like he needs oxygen. We went through this last season. Renney said the PP needs to change and there needs to be more shots - Jagr said the PP's just fine. What happened after that? Jagr seemed to get more ice time. Renney's not going to bite the hand that feeds him. But honestly, the 'traditional' type of PP won't work - Jagr plays a certain way and the PP, with the current players, is better with Jagr than without, and thus has to be played in a manner in which he feels most comfortable.

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Old
01-21-2007, 02:30 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
are you really Tom Renny
No, I am not I mean - I won´t really tell - but uhhhhhhh
Maybe

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Old
01-21-2007, 02:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
to get a Morrison without giving up Prucha. It would be even nicer if the coach decided that Cullen would look nice on the third line after that, and Betts on a fourth line.
That would be something that the fans want, but Renney can't see that.

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Old
01-21-2007, 06:27 PM
  #36
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Personally...I'd like to see something along the lines of...

Shanahan-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Straka-(Tkachuk,Guerin,or another PF type)
Hossa-Cullen-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Ward

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Old
01-21-2007, 07:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Everybody knows the Ranngers need a 2nd C...The Rangewrs will get one..The question is, who goes the other way? I can definetely see one or two 3rd/4th liners, a good prospcet (say Dawes or Callahan)...maybe going the other way....My bet on 3rd/4th liners going would be Hossa/Hall/Ward....

If a trade is slow to be made, my bet is the Rangers NOW have no choice but to call up Dubinskly for the 2nd C (I think they have come to the right conclusion on IMMONEN regarding 2nd C capability) and let the others play where they should.....

The wildcard is whether Prucha is included in a deal for a 2nd line forward instead of a Dawes or callahan...But I don't think so and coming back after the break, he might get one more shot....

So, what should be (and tinted a bit with what I think will be)

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Dubinsky/TRADEE-Shanny
HOlly-Betts-Orts
Culen-Dubinsky/Krog-Hossa/Ward/Hall... (cullen is not a C in my book)


One more shot?? HE had 30 goals last season, and is currently playing on the 4th line. If any one's going to be given one more shot its Malik and Hall.

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Old
01-21-2007, 08:27 PM
  #38
I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
This is what I was referring to yesterday. I don't think you're going to coach Jagr out of his ways. Which is why I was suggesting building a second unit with a more north american feel. Teams would have to be prepared to deal with either one, and they are drastically different. The cost of this, of course would be losing HappyJagr and getting back GrumpyJagr, once Renney decides to go with the Shanahan unit over the Jagrunit. Then we create a rift in the lockerroom over whose team it is, everyone chooses sides and we create a totally toxic environment for young players to come into, and maintain our reputation as a total circus. I guess there's no way to make everyone happy.
Jagr wants to win....this idea is a good one and considering his slow recovery a plan that he likely would give the nod.....people make too much of #68's sensitivity.

Having TWO PP units that worked differently is brilliant...Still need someone to set up Shanny

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Old
01-21-2007, 09:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I really don't think that the Rangers want 2 players under 6 foot playing.
The Sabres are doing just fine with "Smaller" players...

Drury, Briere, Afinogenov, Roy, Pominville....

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Old
01-21-2007, 09:33 PM
  #40
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
What's the urgency in sacrificing all for this year? I would NOT ruin a player like Dubinsky just for the sake of improving our second line. Especially when we have NHL veterans that have proven they can play there but haven't. It's time for certain players to look themselves in the mirror and take ownership of their games.
First off, I didn't say I would do all this, but I see the Rangers doing something like this...Make no mistake, they are goingto make a move(s) that thye think will help get them in the POs and/or win in the POs..To think otherwise is foolish...

As for Dubinsky (and Immo, Callahan,Dawes), I thought they have been in the right place all along but are getting really close to helping i nthe NHL and I think the Rangers will take a shot with one of them becasue the center position in New York is atrocious...Cullen sucks (as a center), Krog is an AHL player, and there is nobody else.

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Old
01-21-2007, 09:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
One more shot?? HE had 30 goals last season, and is currently playing on the 4th line. If any one's going to be given one more shot its Malik and Hall.
Exactly, you have a 30 goal player on the 4th line which means the Rangers are not happy with his play at all......I'm just saying that, despite their unhappiness, the Rangers will (and in my opinion, MUST) give him another shot on the top lines (as they should)...If he fails (or the lines fail), I won;t be surprised to see him dealt..

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Old
01-21-2007, 11:43 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Jagr wants to win....this idea is a good one and considering his slow recovery a plan that he likely would give the nod.....people make too much of #68's sensitivity.

Having TWO PP units that worked differently is brilliant...Still need someone to set up Shanny
See, I would still use Cullen on the second PP unit, except he would play the point. So once he takes the faceoff, he falls back to the point. So figure Shanahan on the right side, Prucha on the left, Cullen as the Center, Maybe Pock as the other pointman, and Hall as the other guy. As soon as he takes the draw, Cullen goes the the point and Hall goes to the front of the net. Pock, Prucha and Cullen have eougn footspeed to keep the puck moving and to chase it down... Hall scored alot of PPG in NSH and has some finish around the net, so keep him right there, and Shanahan knows his way around the net. The other three guys would just be looking for open shots at the net. Yeah, we'd be a bit open for shorthanded goals, but ***, we gotta try something.

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Old
01-22-2007, 09:21 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

Read the Shanahan comments in the article
"The lines seem disjointed."

Ouch.

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Old
01-22-2007, 11:01 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
See, I would still use Cullen on the second PP unit, except he would play the point. So once he takes the faceoff, he falls back to the point. So figure Shanahan on the right side, Prucha on the left, Cullen as the Center, Maybe Pock as the other pointman, and Hall as the other guy. As soon as he takes the draw, Cullen goes the the point and Hall goes to the front of the net. Pock, Prucha and Cullen have eougn footspeed to keep the puck moving and to chase it down... Hall scored alot of PPG in NSH and has some finish around the net, so keep him right there, and Shanahan knows his way around the net. The other three guys would just be looking for open shots at the net. Yeah, we'd be a bit open for shorthanded goals, but ***, we gotta try something.
I agree that Cullen should be point man on the 2nd unit. He did well with ity last year for the Canes....an EXCELLENT example of a guy whos strengths are being ignored while be asked to do something he's not suited for

as for the 2nd unit being Prucha Pock Cullen Hall and Shanny:

Man are we SORELY missing another playmaking C. Just another brutal example.

How sweet would:

Prucha Forsberg Shanny Cullen Pock

Prucha B. Richards Shanny Cullen Pock

Prucha Datsyuk Shanny Cullen Pock


I know wishful thinking, and maybe Prucha is not there once the playmaker is, but it just goes to show how badly we need another playmaker imo

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Old
01-22-2007, 12:58 PM
  #45
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I agree, and I'd love to have any one of those guys, but I don't want to pay the price in assets to get them or in cap room once they're here. I don't think any of them will matter if Renney lets Jagr decide what's going to happen on this team. He's gotta put his foot down. I have an old analogy I got from my brother once on one of our trian rides down to the garden talking hockey. It likens the PP to painting a house. When you need a house painted, you don't need a bunch of Davinci's and Picasso's, because they'll argue all day about how to make it a masterpiece and the job will never get done. What you need is a couple of dumb sob's with some rollers who aren't going to ask questions and just go do the freaking job. I would try to work through our problems on the PP with what we have. Then I would try to lure a guy like Drury, Briere, or Datsyuk here for free in the off season, because I don't think it's worth it to give up much to repair a flawed team with a rapidly expiring shelf life.

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Old
01-22-2007, 01:26 PM
  #46
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Totally agree...

There will be some nice C's inthe UFA MARKET this summer

Rangers need to be careful not to take the Gomez bait and let the Devil string us along while the other C's get signed elswhere and than Gomez resigns with Lou....

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Old
01-24-2007, 06:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Cynical TyranT View Post
The Sabres are doing just fine with "Smaller" players...

Drury, Briere, Afinogenov, Roy, Pominville....
Right....way to mention their enforcer...Gaustad, Campbell, Nummenin, Mair, etc...and Drury is one of the toughest guys around

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Old
01-25-2007, 10:39 AM
  #48
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Legitimate Moves (post All-Star Game)?

We all want a youth movement, so that is great. However, let's talk about some real legitimate moves that we feel could help this team. I mean, we can't expect Renney to call up half the Hartford team. There has to be a balance of youth and veteran leadership on the Rangers since we won't make the playoffs with 10 rookies

Here are some moves I want to see:

Girardi - the first correct move to replace Kasparaitis

Immonen - waive Krog, he has been useless. Let Immonen center the 2nd line with Shanahan and Cullen. Immonen is responsible enough defensively to not hurt the Rangers even if he does not score.

Dubinsky - waive Orr, he is useless as well. Give Dubinsky a try as a 3rd line center. If that is too much of a responsibility for him, then let him play wing. But I think we need to give him a chance since we really don't have any depth at Center...if he gets some experience, he could at least become useful when one of our veteran Centers gets hurt.

My Lines:

Straka - Nylander - Jagr

Shanahan - Immonen - Cullen (this line looked good when Immonen played w/us)

Ward - Dubinsky - Hossa (if this line can control the puck down low, they can score)

Hollweg - Betts - Ortmayer


Tyutin - Ward

Rozsival - Malik

Pock - Girardi


Hall becomes a sub...we can try him instead of Ward on the 3rd line though.

Dawes - another possible call-up in case we need more scoring from the wings.

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Old
01-25-2007, 10:44 AM
  #49
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I'd waive Hall instead of Orr.

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Old
01-25-2007, 10:45 AM
  #50
Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'd waive Hall instead of Orr.
sure,I'm up for that too...I don't like either of them! I guess since we need a fighter at times...Orr is ok

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