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Trade Thread Part XI: New year...no trades.

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Old
01-12-2014, 11:59 AM
  #901
mrjimmyg89
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Calling the line of Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello a scoring line is being awfully generous.

The former two are about as hot and cold as they get. And Zuccarello belongs in the top 6 getting 17+ minutes a game. The line is just god awful 5 on 5, no can do.

A defensive third line can score too. But this third line has no role, though they are dominant on the PP. I'll give them that.
It is not about what even strength line they play on, it matter the role they are put in. Richards Cally and Hagelin are more of a checking line. Very little finesse on that line. More grinding style. Are they big? No, but in that role it works. Where is the checking line on a team like Tampa? A lot of smaller players. Same for Chicago and they won a cup. They split up the grit. Would playing Handzus with Bickell and Hossa make sense? Those are their big bodies. In the NHL you need everyone to play a role, but that 3rd line checking aspect is not as relevant.

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01-12-2014, 12:00 PM
  #902
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The notion that a checking 3rd line is one that is defensive is incorrect.

A checking 3rd line that is effective can be a scoring line by pinning the other team in their own zone, forcing mistakes, wearing out their players, and then scoring goals after that.

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01-12-2014, 12:44 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Marcus Foligno? Have people gone mad?

He's a decent 3rd liner, but nothing more and I don't see any top-6 upside there. Are people still up in arms over those 13p in 14gp back in 11-12?

Not really a guy you go out of your way to get.

Again, why would we make a trade to get someone who is at best a slight upgrade on our 3rd line?
Foligno would be a calculated risk, but one I'd be willing to take.

You must draft power forwards when they are available or trade for them before they're established. Once they're established, they become prohibitively expensive to acquire. By the time they're UFA, there's not much left in the tank.

Foligno would slot on the 3rd line @ LW right now. Even if he doesn't develop any more, he would be a physical wing who could chip in some offense and provide an answer to guys like James Neal, Lucic, Kunitz, etc., when they take liberties with the Rangers. A real light heavyweight who can play, which is a type of player that the Rangers don't have right now, but, in my opinion, need badly. That is not a slight upgrade.

The risk is the possibility that he is done developing versus the possibility that he could develop like his brother. Sure, there's no guarantee that he will end up like Nick. But Marcus is only 22, about three months younger than Kreider. Power forwards take a bit more time to develop.

If Marcus does develop like Nick, he would be a 20 goal, 40 point, 200 hit wing who would be a good first step in developing some team toughness.

Of course, all of this depends on what Buffalo would want for him. I'm sure it would be a lot, probably more than I'd want to spend.

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01-12-2014, 12:49 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
It is not about what even strength line they play on, it matter the role they are put in. Richards Cally and Hagelin are more of a checking line. Very little finesse on that line. More grinding style. Are they big? No, but in that role it works. Where is the checking line on a team like Tampa? A lot of smaller players. Same for Chicago and they won a cup. They split up the grit. Would playing Handzus with Bickell and Hossa make sense? Those are their big bodies. In the NHL you need everyone to play a role, but that 3rd line checking aspect is not as relevant.
I wasn't so much saying we lack a checking line and should have one, but more that the third line has no role as currently constructed.

Tampa is loaded with two-way players. As is Chicago. The Rangers are not. Too many one dimensional players. Can't load up a line of just those players.

Hell, if we had Hagelin-Miller-Callahan as our third line I'd be a lot happier with that than Pouliot-Brass-Zucc. We very much lack in defensive play from our forwards, and unless we're getting Toews and Parise to play in the top 6, need to fill those roles on the 3rd line.

Team needs more dimensions, period.

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01-12-2014, 01:07 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I wasn't so much saying we lack a checking line and should have one, but more that the third line has no role as currently constructed.

Tampa is loaded with two-way players. As is Chicago. The Rangers are not. Too many one dimensional players. Can't load up a line of just those players.

Hell, if we had Hagelin-Miller-Callahan as our third line I'd be a lot happier with that than Pouliot-Brass-Zucc. We very much lack in defensive play from our forwards, and unless we're getting Toews and Parise to play in the top 6, need to fill those roles on the 3rd line.

Team needs more dimensions, period.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. The best teams in the NHL have players that play complete games. That's not to say teams can't carry more one-dimensional players...but they key word is "carry". And one-dimensional does not just mean offensive players, it means the Brian Bickell's of the league too.

The Rangers have too many players that only excel at one thing. Which makes it difficult to play cohesively or adapt to what your opponent is throwing at you.

I think a Marcus Foligno/Jamie McGinn type player would be a nice addition to the third line. They can keep up with Brassard and MZA while adding another dimension.

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01-12-2014, 01:19 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Agree wholeheartedly with this. The best teams in the NHL have players that play complete games. That's not to say teams can't carry more one-dimensional players...but they key word is "carry". And one-dimensional does not just mean offensive players, it means the Brian Bickell's of the league too.

The Rangers have too many players that only excel at one thing. Which makes it difficult to play cohesively or adapt to what your opponent is throwing at you.

I think a Marcus Foligno/Jamie McGinn type player would be a nice addition to the third line. They can keep up with Brassard and MZA while adding another dimension.
And the big problem with the bolded is that they don't excel enough in their roles to make up for their deficiencies elsewhere. I could live with Brassard and Pouliot if they were putting up a PPG or so, but they aren't.

If you're going to be one dimensional, you better be damn good at that one dimension (Patrick Kane, Evgeni Malkin come to mind). It's not so much that all our players are one dimensional, it's that they aren't good enough at that dimension to be a useful player. Brian Boyle is one dimensional, but it's fine because he really excels in that dimension, as a defensive stalwart on the 4th line.

We need more players like Stepan, Hagelin, Dorsett, D. Moore, Callahan, etc. But it seems whenever we get those players, they can do everything except score consistently. And that's not ideal for a top 6 role, so then everyone starts calling them 3rd liners on good teams.

Just need to get the right players, that excel in multiple things.

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01-12-2014, 01:46 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
And the big problem with the bolded is that they don't excel enough in their roles to make up for their deficiencies elsewhere. I could live with Brassard and Pouliot if they were putting up a PPG or so, but they aren't.

If you're going to be one dimensional, you better be damn good at that one dimension (Patrick Kane, Evgeni Malkin come to mind). It's not so much that all our players are one dimensional, it's that they aren't good enough at that dimension to be a useful player. Brian Boyle is one dimensional, but it's fine because he really excels in that dimension, as a defensive stalwart on the 4th line.

We need more players like Stepan, Hagelin, Dorsett, D. Moore, Callahan, etc. But it seems whenever we get those players, they can do everything except score consistently. And that's not ideal for a top 6 role, so then everyone starts calling them 3rd liners on good teams.

Just need to get the right players, that excel in multiple things.
They don't grow on trees.

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01-12-2014, 02:15 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
And the big problem with the bolded is that they don't excel enough in their roles to make up for their deficiencies elsewhere. I could live with Brassard and Pouliot if they were putting up a PPG or so, but they aren't.

If you're going to be one dimensional, you better be damn good at that one dimension (Patrick Kane, Evgeni Malkin come to mind). It's not so much that all our players are one dimensional, it's that they aren't good enough at that dimension to be a useful player. Brian Boyle is one dimensional, but it's fine because he really excels in that dimension, as a defensive stalwart on the 4th line.

We need more players like Stepan, Hagelin, Dorsett, D. Moore, Callahan, etc. But it seems whenever we get those players, they can do everything except score consistently. And that's not ideal for a top 6 role, so then everyone starts calling them 3rd liners on good teams.

Just need to get the right players, that excel in multiple things.
do you know how many PPG players there are in the NHL? Usually a dozen a year. So 1 out of every 2 teams have PPG players. You want 2 of our 2nd line players to be PPG players?

The 90th ranked forward last year scored at roughly a .6PPG rate..thats basically encompasses all 30 teams top line (roughly...totally not scientific)....so your 2nd line production basically starts there.

IE, the "best" 2nd line player in the league plays at a .6 PPG rate.

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01-12-2014, 02:33 PM
  #909
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I really need to stay away from the trade proposal board. I almost lost it when someone said that Del Zotto may not even be as good as Jamie McBain anymore. It took every ounce of will power to not respond to that one.

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01-12-2014, 05:03 PM
  #910
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8-3 in their last 11 games.

This club keeps winning they will end up as buyers yet again at the deadline.

As much as many of us posters here and fans in general wish to see a change from mediocrity this club is getting closer to that Dany Heatley for a first rounder plus type of deal

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01-12-2014, 05:14 PM
  #911
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They don't grow on trees.
They grow in wombs

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Old
01-12-2014, 05:19 PM
  #912
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They grow in wombs
Wait....

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Old
01-12-2014, 09:03 PM
  #913
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do you know how many PPG players there are in the NHL? Usually a dozen a year. So 1 out of every 2 teams have PPG players. You want 2 of our 2nd line players to be PPG players?

The 90th ranked forward last year scored at roughly a .6PPG rate..thats basically encompasses all 30 teams top line (roughly...totally not scientific)....so your 2nd line production basically starts there.

IE, the "best" 2nd line player in the league plays at a .6 PPG rate.
Did you even read my post? For someone to be as one dimensional as Brassard and Pouliot, I'd like them to score at a higher rate than they do (PPG was an exaggeration). There's nothing wrong with wanting players that excel in more than one area. It's not a fallacy to ask for players that are useful when not scoring.

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01-12-2014, 09:11 PM
  #914
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Errrrr big IF but if they keep rolling no big changes are coming

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01-12-2014, 09:29 PM
  #915
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@BuffaloSabres: Mikhail Grigorenko has informed the #Sabres that he will be reporting to the Quebec Remparts.

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Old
01-12-2014, 10:00 PM
  #916
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Not actually saying we should be in on it but if the Sabres do end up moving Grigorenko - especially if they sell low on him - it's a risk the Rangers should be looking into taking, because wary though I am of him busting now, I think they will end up selling low and he's the kind of potential talent the Rangers haven't had in.. ever. I'm drooling over Kreider right now, for example, but if Grigs does end up living up to his potential and it's just that he needs more time/better handling? He would absolutely poop on Kreider's potential. Kid is top notch. Just a matter of whether he's gonna be a player or not.

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01-13-2014, 12:13 PM
  #917
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Perhaps most relevant from Monday's news that veteran GM Bryan Murray was extended through July 2016 was the expressed message that it's about winning now for the Ottawa Senators.

The rebuilding is over. It's time to go for it.

"The reason I'm on board, and I know the reason Eugene has me on board, is to try to get something done in the next short time," Murray said Monday.


"I think we do have a good number of young people I would think other organizations would be interested in," Murray said. "The Bobby Ryan deal [last summer] required us to give up a young player, a couple of young players, I think it's been a good thing for us and I believe it'll be a good thing for Anaheim. But, yes, we're open to talking about moving a young part or two to get the required player that we would need."


"We're not moving Curtis Lazar, I can tell you at this point in time," Murray said of his prized junior prospect who played for Canada at the world juniors. "But we do have a number of players that probably are deserving of playing some games or playing in the NHL that may not get a chance, because of our numbers up here, that we would talk to teams about for a more veteran-type player.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals


from Senators realisticly as a Rangers fan i would be interested in: Cory Conacher, Zack Smith, Mika Zibanejad and Curtis Lazar (highly unlikely but you never know), Mark Stone, Jared Cowen, Mark Methot, Shane Prince, Matt Puempel, Mark Borowiecki

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01-13-2014, 12:17 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Perhaps most relevant from Monday's news that veteran GM Bryan Murray was extended through July 2016 was the expressed message that it's about winning now for the Ottawa Senators.

The rebuilding is over. It's time to go for it.

"The reason I'm on board, and I know the reason Eugene has me on board, is to try to get something done in the next short time," Murray said Monday.

"I think we do have a good number of young people I would think other organizations would be interested in," Murray said. "The Bobby Ryan deal [last summer] required us to give up a young player, a couple of young players, I think it's been a good thing for us and I believe it'll be a good thing for Anaheim. But, yes, we're open to talking about moving a young part or two to get the required player that we would need."


"We're not moving Curtis Lazar, I can tell you at this point in time," Murray said of his prized junior prospect who played for Canada at the world juniors. "But we do have a number of players that probably are deserving of playing some games or playing in the NHL that may not get a chance, because of our numbers up here, that we would talk to teams about for a more veteran-type player.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-to-make-deals


from Senators realisticly as a Rangers fan i would be interested in: Cory Conacher, Zack Smith, Mika Zibanejad and Curtis Lazar (highly unlikely but you never know), Mark Stone, Jared Cowen, Mark Methot, Shane Prince, Matt Puempel, Mark Borowiecki
Zibanejad would be ideal.

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01-13-2014, 12:20 PM
  #919
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Zibanejad would be ideal.
Yes he would. He would fit the style the team is trying to play.

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01-13-2014, 12:25 PM
  #920
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Yes he would. He would fit the style the team is trying to play.
Exactly. He's very young too. Would be Richards' replacement.

Wonder if an improved DZ could get it done or if Girardi would have to be the guy we gave up. They need help on defense.

Dz for Zib straight up would be phenomenal value. They'd have to add more for Girardi. No first. Maybe another good prospect like Ceci.

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01-13-2014, 12:31 PM
  #921
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8-3 in their last 11 games.

This club keeps winning they will end up as buyers yet again at the deadline.

As much as many of us posters here and fans in general wish to see a change from mediocrity this club is getting closer to that Dany Heatley for a first rounder plus type of deal
Yeah I am getting queasy.

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01-13-2014, 12:35 PM
  #922
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Zibanejad straight for Girardi is still fantastic value for us, that's a player that they have no reason to trade. None whatsoever. 20 years old, already starting to play extremely well in the NHL. Imagine what a clown show it would be if we gave up Kreider for something similar to Del Zotto or an expiring Girardi.

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01-13-2014, 12:35 PM
  #923
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Yeah I am getting queasy.
I was scared it would be Camalleri.

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01-13-2014, 12:37 PM
  #924
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Zibanejad straight for Girardi is still fantastic value for us, that's a player that they have no reason to trade. None whatsoever. 20 years old, already starting to play extremely well in the NHL. Imagine what a clown show it would be if we gave up Kreider for something similar to Del Zotto or an expiring Girardi.
Girardi is the best available UFA for defenders. He's a right hand shot. He has loads of playoff experience. He's a leader. He's an iron man and rarely misses games. He's an amazing locker room guy to have.

Another team will offer more than the value that Zib holds for Girardi. I'd love to have Zib but not straight up for Girardi. They need to add more. And it appears that they'll be desperate enough to do that. If they're in win-now mode.... they'd value someone like Girardi very highly.

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01-13-2014, 01:55 PM
  #925
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Who does Murray want to trade? Lazar is off limits. He isn't trading Zibanejad and Ceci. He traded a Silfverberg,Noesen and his #1 in June for Ryan. Who does that leave? Stone. Puempel. Prince.

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On a conference call Murray identified a forward as a need toward trade deadline, either a scorer or power F. Willing to deal youth.
https://twitter.com/HockeyScanner/st...81546643603457

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