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Old
01-13-2014, 12:41 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by metalan2 View Post
What would it take for the Penguins to acquire Ryan Miller?
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Originally Posted by M10 View Post
Who knows but it's not happening.

Neither is Ott. If people won't buy that the Penguins no longer gravitate to players of his ilk, buy Shero's quotes on not trading for rentals.
Why isn't it possibly to acquire Ryan Miller? He is an UFA after this season so Buffalo have to get rid of him by trade deadline. I think Pens should try to get a package deal with Miller and Moulson for Fleury, 2014 1st round pick and a forward prospect.

Fleury have the capacity but looks like he needs a change of scenery, the 1st round pick have to be included and won't matter to Pens cause it will be a late pick anyway and a prospect of Sabres liking. Miller will probably re-sign cause he wan't to play on a contender and as long as Crosby and Malkin play, pens will be a contender.

The problem is Moulson and his salary and i can't find a solution to that. Unfortunately, Niskanen and Jokinen are both UFA so Sabres won't touch them...

THe option is to trade Fleury and a 1st round pick for Miller and try to sign Moulson in the offseason when the salary cap goes up but that will only solve the goalie issue going forwards into the playoffs. But hopefully the forward core can manage.

Edit: I just remembered that Dupuis is out for the season so his salary is gone right? That makes it possibly to trade for Moulson.

So the deal would be
From Penguins:
Marc-Andre Fleury
Penguins 2014 1st round pick
A top forward prospect of Sabres liking (with some restrictions of course, Bennet for example)

From Sabres:
Ryan Miller
Matt Moulson

And with Dupuis out for the season Penguins should have enough capspace too.
Let's face it, Penguins will never win the cup by playing tough with guys like Ott so i belive it's better to acquire more skill and goalscoring.

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01-13-2014, 01:07 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I think a Steve Ott deal makes a bit of sense for a few reasons. He is exactly what we need to take a team on like Boston. His style of play also fills a gaping hole in our bottom 6. I also believe at his age, he'll be looking to settle in with a team that represents his best chance to win a Cup, and he would re-sign here for a decent number given he's going to be coming off a sub-par year.

Dealing that 2nd round pick for Murray could prove to be our achilles heal this deadline, as that would be a solid asset to get us something we need now.
NO! Penguins swept Boston i the regular season last season by NOT adapting to Bruins-style of hockey. The reason Penguins lost against the Flyers and Bruins the past two playoffs is because Penguins tried to be tougher than those teams, Penguins are not that kind of team. Penguins should win by speed and skill.

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Old
01-13-2014, 01:10 AM
  #478
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I do. I want to pay what it takes and hope he re-signs here. I think Ott is the PERFECT Penguin. He can fill roles and he can play his own if everyone is healthy. That is PERFECT in Pittsburgh. I'll throw a first into the equation. I'll throw a big name defender if they want it. I'll send Orpik home. I don't even curr. I want Ott on the team.
I agree with this completely. I feel that, like Cooke, because of his role as an agitator, Ott's actual ability to play hockey goes underrated. He plays all three forward positions, can fit on a checking or scoring line, and plays a physical game. He's what we need.

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Originally Posted by ozpensfan View Post
Id love to see Evander Kane in a pens uniform, cap space (unless Letang goes) is going to be an issue. Personally id like too see Devon Setoguchi to replace Dupuis on the top line.
I think Seto has a better shot than Dupuis, but I don't think he's better than him at anything else. I don't see him being much of an upgrade there, but I'd be fine with him on the third line.

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Old
01-13-2014, 01:34 AM
  #479
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Wait, people are back to thinking we need a new #1 goaltender to replace Fleury?

This fan base is so Jekyll & Hyde.

I think he's been fine, he hasn't been any more or less consistent than any of the other top goaltenders this season, some of their numbers are disgustingly inflated because of the team they have in front of them and the lack of injuries, etc. Imagine a team that still played a disciplined defensive game with Fleury playing the way he has been this year, the numbers would be down right amazing, but that wouldn't happen because of Shero & Bylsma's Bromance, Sherosma.

I don't think this team needs Miller, if he is still a UFA at the end of the year and the team plays solid defense in the playoffs and MAF is the single deciding factor as to why the team is out...then go balls to the wall to sign him. Miller would probably be happy to just face Crosby in practice.

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01-13-2014, 01:45 AM
  #480
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I can't wait to see the likes of Price in the Olympics away from Therrien's system, getting owned hard. If he even sniffs a game, chances are Luongo probably doesn't even make it because of his injuries he keeps having.

In any case, I keep looking at the teams and what they have to offer and what the Pens have to offer, not sure which ones look enticing.

I mean, what do the Pens have to offer the Jets?

Jarry, Despres, Jokinen, and their 1st for Kane, Setoguchi and their 3rd? Or is that a crap offer?

How it breaks down...

Despres, 1st, Jarry for Kane
Jokinen for Setoguchi + 3rd


The Jets are on the lookout for some goaltending help, but I'm not sure if they would want to blow their wad to go after Hiller when they can likely just go after him in the off season, Fasth isn't worth trading one of their wingers for unless it's Setoguchi, and the Ducks would not part with Hiller when they look like they want to make a run for the cup and not trade away assets but add instead.

I think it's a fairly decent package, unless I have the valuation of the assets being forfeitted, wrong.

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01-13-2014, 01:48 AM
  #481
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That offer probably isn't enough for Kane alone.

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01-13-2014, 01:52 AM
  #482
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The Penguins wouldn't get out of a trade for Kane without giving up Matta or Letang.

This begs the question, is the 10 more goals Kane gets over whoever else plays in that spot worth a top defensemen to the Penguins?

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Old
01-13-2014, 01:55 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
That offer probably isn't enough for Kane alone.
Maybe, maybe not. It also depends on how much the Jets value certain prospects, etc. If they are enamored with a player and feel it's worth it with the other pieces they are getting, I could see a team doing that. If we are looking at it without the whole "What does that GM like?" sense, then yeah black and white wise...it might not be enough.

I didn't think Goose for Nisky and Neal was enough, but that team was/is desperate for defensemen and would pony up for one they deem top 4.

What was that rumor about the Ducks and Rangers? I mean that much for Girardi? Why? Because the Ducks GM really wants him and will give up a decent package to get him even if he can't retain him or he feels he has a shot a it, if that rumor was even true.

In that package, who else would you think the team would need to give up?

Despres - Probably, he's ready and can step in now for them.
1st - A low pick, likely 28th-30th.
Jarry - A solid goaltending prospect, haven't looked at the Jets G prospect pool...

Would Bennett need to be given up?
None of us would care if Kuhnhackl was, would him being thrown in be ok or is he just useless at this point?
Any of the college kids you'd want to see moved for him? Archibald included? Wilson? Blueger?

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01-13-2014, 01:57 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by M10 View Post
The Penguins wouldn't get out of a trade for Kane without giving up Matta or Letang.

This begs the question, is the 10 more goals Kane gets over whoever else plays in that spot worth a top defensemen to the Penguins?
They would be stupid to move Maatta, all you hear about him from the team and anything is how smart he is, how hungry he is to learn and how he improves from that, what you hear about Letang is the potential of him learning and playing like the guy the team hopes he can be.

I would be pretty pissed off as a fan to see Maatta moved in a package for Kane. Letang, sure, it would then allow the Jets to move Byfuglien for a forward if they move Kane for a defenseman.

Is it wrong to consider Maatta an untouchable right now?

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01-13-2014, 02:03 AM
  #485
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[QUOTE=Honour Over Glory;77911059I don't think this team needs Miller, if he is still a UFA at the end of the year and the team plays solid defense in the playoffs and MAF is the single deciding factor as to why the team is out...then go balls to the wall to sign him. Miller would probably be happy to just face Crosby in practice.[/QUOTE]

Why wait a year to yet again fail in the playoffs? Miller would sign with pens for sure in the off-season either way.

As i wrote, MAF needs a change in environment, and i believe you can sell him pretty easy as he has a cup and he was one of the keystones in that cup-run.

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Old
01-13-2014, 02:07 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Tompa8989 View Post
Why wait a year to yet again fail in the playoffs? Miller would sign with pens for sure in the off-season either way.

As i wrote, MAF needs a change in environment, and i believe you can sell him pretty easy as he has a cup and he was one of the keystones in that cup-run.
Your assumption is that Maf is going to implode again is it? But he's shown us in 2008 and 2009 that he is capable of being the goaltender this team needs him to be in the playoffs, if the team didn't trade him or buy him out in the off season, they are not going to do it now, they are likely going to give him the benefit of the doubt and continue letting him play well this year as the #1 and give him the confidence as the starter that he has earned this year.

He hasn't had a hand full of bad games in a row that were entirely his fault.

Shero won't make that move, to assume he will, is a pipe dream. The only time he would is the off season, I think the compliance buyout is still an option for the Pens, is it not?

Goaltending isn't the issue, it's having a healthy team and a coaching staff that understands how to tighten up the defense. I mean I don't get how anyone feels the team needs a different #1 right now.

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01-13-2014, 02:45 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Your assumption is that Maf is going to implode again is it? But he's shown us in 2008 and 2009 that he is capable of being the goaltender this team needs him to be in the playoffs, if the team didn't trade him or buy him out in the off season, they are not going to do it now, they are likely going to give him the benefit of the doubt and continue letting him play well this year as the #1 and give him the confidence as the starter that he has earned this year.

He hasn't had a hand full of bad games in a row that were entirely his fault.

Shero won't make that move, to assume he will, is a pipe dream. The only time he would is the off season, I think the compliance buyout is still an option for the Pens, is it not?

Goaltending isn't the issue, it's having a healthy team and a coaching staff that understands how to tighten up the defense. I mean I don't get how anyone feels the team needs a different #1 right now.
Well, it's 5 years ago he was good in the playoffs. I think he hsa decline and that's why i believe he needs a change. I think he would be a good starter on another team but i feel like his time in Penguins has passed. But we'll see...Maybe he proves us all wrong and plays like a wall in the upcoming playoffs. Bit i doubt it.

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01-13-2014, 02:54 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
ROR would play 2nd line LW on this team, no Bylsma sarcasm
Why? To keep ROR at his natural wing spot? If DB would make Iginla and Neal switch sides, he'd damn sure be willing to make ROR or Evander Kane switch. The only reason Iggy played 2nd line LW last year was because DB or Sid or both wanted to keep KCD together because of their regular season chemistry. We don't have to worry about that right now. I have no doubt Kane or ROR would be switched to RW and play with Sid if we traded for one of them.

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Old
01-13-2014, 02:54 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Tompa8989 View Post
Well, it's 5 years ago he was good in the playoffs. I think he hsa decline and that's why i believe he needs a change. I think he would be a good starter on another team but i feel like his time in Penguins has passed. But we'll see...Maybe he proves us all wrong and plays like a wall in the upcoming playoffs. Bit i doubt it.
Um, no.

A decline would be him being absolutely crap during the regular season and worse in the playoffs. There's an issue, the coaching is the biggest one. Fleury has also been hung out to dry pretty badly in those series where he'd have to channel the hockey goaltending gods to make it out alive and then in some, it was him just losing his cool and not just him, a lot of the players.

But if you paid any attention, the common problem in those years has been the coaching in the playoffs, it's night and day in the playoffs.

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01-13-2014, 03:18 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
One thing I get from this thread is that almost everybody wants an Ott but nobody wants to pay what it will take to get him.
I'd just hold off on spending quality assets on 2nd and 3rd liners until we fill the gaping hole on Sid's RW.

I'm not sure of Ott's exact value. He's got 5 goals, 6 assists, 11 points and a -18 rating in 43 games. In his defense he plays on one of the worst teams in the league and that probably drags his numbers down.

He kind of reminds me of Ryan Clowe last year. A gritty veteran that was having a poor year statistically. Clowe fetched a 2013 2nd and 3rd + a conditional 2nd in 2014 if NYR either re-signed Clowe or won two rounds. They didn't and the 2nd became a 5th.

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01-13-2014, 08:55 AM
  #491
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I'm fine with Shero spending tons of assets at the deadline, but it better not be for another rental. Ott is the only rental I have serious interest in but I wouldn't get in a bidding war for him.

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01-13-2014, 09:30 AM
  #492
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Kane for Bennett, Despres, another prospect and a 1st
Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik
Waive Pyatt

Kunitz-Crosby-Kane
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

I don't think that would work cap wise, but yolo.

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01-13-2014, 09:33 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Kane for Bennett, Despres, another prospect and a 1st
Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik
Waive Pyatt

Kunitz-Crosby-Kane
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

I don't think that would work cap wise, but yolo.

I love, and want Kane, but isn't including Bennett in a deal for him leave us in roughly the same boat we're in now, next year?

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01-13-2014, 09:34 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Kane for Bennett, Despres, another prospect and a 1st
Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik
Waive Pyatt

Kunitz-Crosby-Kane
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

I don't think that would work cap wise, but yolo.
The obsession this board has for Kane is crazy. He's overrated as hell and Bennett is getting severely underrated.

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01-13-2014, 09:39 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The obsession this board has for Kane is crazy. He's overrated as hell and Bennett is getting severely underrated.
This. Give me Blake Wheeler every day of the week and twice on Sunday's over Kane. Wheeler is a more complete player IMO and naturally plays RW which is where our void is on the 1st line.

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01-13-2014, 09:40 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The obsession this board has for Kane is crazy. He's overrated as hell and Bennett is getting severely underrated.
What I find odd is that so many posters are clamoring for the young defensemen to get a shot but are wanting to fill up the forward roster spots via trade before guys like BB and Megna get solid looks.

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01-13-2014, 09:41 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The obsession this board has for Kane is crazy. He's overrated as hell and Bennett is getting severely underrated.
Kane is significantly better than Bennett right now, and probably will remain better for a long time. In a deal for Kane, I'd definitely made Bennett available. It's asinine not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger for Hire View Post
I love, and want Kane, but isn't including Bennett in a deal for him leave us in roughly the same boat we're in now, next year?
If we trade for Kane and sign Kulemin (the Kulemin part seems likely), we wouldn't have a problem.

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01-13-2014, 09:44 AM
  #498
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What I find odd is that so many posters are clamoring for the young defensemen to get a shot but are wanting to fill up the forward roster spots via trade before guys like BB and Megna get solid looks.
There's a difference between playing Despres and others over washed up veterans and trading for a young and established top-6 winger. The 2 situations aren't comparable at all.

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01-13-2014, 09:50 AM
  #499
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There's a difference between playing Despres and others over washed up veterans and trading for a young and established top-6 winger. The 2 situations aren't comparable at all.
Sure they are ... consider who they'd be replacing. And, there's also the possibility that we might not need to trade for a top-6 winger if BB or Megna work out there. If we're willing to deal with growing pains with young D, why not with young forwards? There's also the idea that if either of those two work out, we can focus on the bottom six, which is a mess ... and we could probably do that by moving some of those 'washed up veterans' ... which would mean Despres would be playing. Sounds like a potential win win situation.

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01-13-2014, 09:50 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The obsession this board has for Kane is crazy. He's overrated as hell and Bennett is getting severely underrated.
I wouldn't say Bennett is getting severely underrated. Bennett's upside is huge and he has shown a lot of good tools in the NHL, but he hasn't really produced yet. It's not like he's a proven producer like Kane. That said, I don't think including Bennett in a trade for a scoring winger makes any sense since Bennett needs to be in this team's long term future.

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