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What the HELL is going on with Henrik Lundqvist?

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01-13-2014, 07:46 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think it's "cute" that you think that .946 and .923 save % performances are "shaky".

(Hasek's career is .922)
There's a huge difference between how his play looks and the results.

He may be confident, but his play doesn't look it yet. He spent a lot of time down on the ice, the way I'm used to seeing from Brodeur for example. Not the way I'm used to seeing Hank.

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01-13-2014, 07:54 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
There's a huge difference between how his play looks and the results.

He may be confident, but his play doesn't look it yet. He spent a lot of time down on the ice, the way I'm used to seeing from Brodeur for example. Not the way I'm used to seeing Hank.
He's looked "normal" since Callahan has been back in the lineup. "The Contract" has people looking for things that aren't there and comparing him to lofty memories instead of reality. Hank is fine.

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01-13-2014, 07:59 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
He's looked "normal" since Callahan has been back in the lineup. "The Contract" has people looking for things that aren't there and comparing him to lofty memories instead of reality. Hank is fine.
That's fine, but I disagree.

He looks fine, and like the best goalie in the world.

I just think he doesn't look like the guy that's been the best goalie in the world for the past 5 years

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01-13-2014, 08:15 AM
  #779
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He plays one good game and all of a sudden everyone loves Hank again, he is fine, he still is not playing good. I don't care if he has one good game or not this year. He still had 95 % bad games compared to 5% good games this year. One good game for him doesn't mean he is back. Let him play good for mostly the rest of his games and then we can say he is back. Key to Rangers winning is scoring quickly, cause if they let Hank give up a goal first, he will then give up a second and third rather quickly.

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01-13-2014, 08:23 AM
  #780
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He plays one good game and all of a sudden everyone loves Hank again, he is fine, he still is not playing good. I don't care if he has one good game or not this year. He still had 95 % bad games compared to 5% good games this year. One good game for him doesn't mean he is back. Let him play good for mostly the rest of his games and then we can say he is back. Key to Rangers winning is scoring quickly, cause if they let Hank give up a goal first, he will then give up a second and third rather quickly.
link?

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01-13-2014, 08:30 AM
  #781
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Henrik has definitely picked up his play the last few games and appears to be trending back toward his career stats. I hope he keeps it up and stays at the level he knows he's capable of playing.

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01-13-2014, 08:43 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think it's "cute" that you think that .946 and .923 save % performances are "shaky".

(Hasek's career is .922)
If you think he played well in the wins over Chicago and Dallas, then there is no point in you continuing in this thread. He was fighting the puck and had zero rebound control all night.

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01-13-2014, 08:45 AM
  #783
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I do think it is cute that he wins 3 games in a row, 2 shaky and last night he was very good, and the Lundqvist apologists come back out of the woodwork.
I think its sad you had to wait 8 years to make this stupid argument and that its quickly slipping away from you. So fleeting.

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01-13-2014, 08:52 AM
  #784
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Henrik has definitely picked up his play the last few games and appears to be trending back toward his career stats. I hope he keeps it up and stays at the level he knows he's capable of playing.
Interesting that the entire team has picked up its play recently. Lundqvist's performance is directly tied to the success and effort of the team playing in front of him.

He's a great goalie but he's part of the system. The team needs to play tight with him in the net and he'll bail them out when they screw up.

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01-13-2014, 08:53 AM
  #785
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I do think it is cute that he wins 3 games in a row, 2 shaky and last night he was very good, and the Lundqvist apologists come back out of the woodwork.
The Lundqvist "apologists" base their defense of the player on his previous 500 games of elite, world class play. You base your criticisms on what, 30 games?

What's "cute" is how quickly people turn on the backbone of the franchise, the one player most singularly responsible for any success we've enjoyed in basically a decade. Actually, no, it's not cute. It's ****ing disgusting.

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01-13-2014, 08:57 AM
  #786
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One of these things is not like the other.
For those who have not seen Richter at the top of his game, it's hard to understand. But he was indeed awesome - and please don't pull stats out to try to convince me otherwise he played in a different era and on very different teams (even during his career). He wasn't the best of his generation but he was up there and played lights out when the NYR needed it.

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01-13-2014, 09:08 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by CharlieCharleschuk View Post
Interesting that the entire team has picked up its play recently. Lundqvist's performance is directly tied to the success and effort of the team playing in front of him.

He's a great goalie but he's part of the system. The team needs to play tight with him in the net and he'll bail them out when they screw up.

"A goalie is only as good as the team in front of him." - Mike Richter

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01-13-2014, 09:08 AM
  #788
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"A goalie is only as good as the team in front of him." - Mike Richter

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01-13-2014, 09:16 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
"A goalie is only as good as the team in front of him." - Mike Richter
I think that pretty much sums it up!

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01-13-2014, 09:38 AM
  #790
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Tell that to Ryan Miller.

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01-13-2014, 09:50 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by CharlieCharleschuk View Post
For those who have not seen Richter at the top of his game, it's hard to understand. But he was indeed awesome - and please don't pull stats out to try to convince me otherwise he played in a different era and on very different teams (even during his career). He wasn't the best of his generation but he was up there and played lights out when the NYR needed it.
The love affair with Richter is a result of the Cup. And while he played great in certain games, he was by no means "lights out" in that run. He had a great team in front of him. In fact, the best I ever saw Richter play was in a team USA uniform at the '96 world cup of hockey.

Take away that cup, which is a team accomplishment, and you're taking about a very good goaltender. I hesitate to call him great.

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01-13-2014, 09:58 AM
  #792
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Tell that to Ryan Miller.
And yet despite him having a decent season, the Sabres are still last in the league, so that quote still rings true.

A better example of someone who defies the notion of "a goalie is only good as the team in front of him" is Dominik Hasek, because he was capable of dragging some really bad Buffalo teams deep into the playoffs. Very few goalies are capable of doing that though.

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01-13-2014, 10:08 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I hesitate to call him great.
So do I. But I hesitate to do so with Lundqvist as well.

And it's simply not true that Richter played behind great teams aside from the early 90's. These were Muckler, Low and Trottier coached teams with zero identity except for the star names playing forward. The intensity of the suck of some defenses he played behind is not debatable... I mean - Kevin Hatcher. Jeff Finley. Rmun Ndur. Rich Pilon. Leetch and Beukeboom were like minus 30 some of those years. See what I'm saying?

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01-13-2014, 10:11 AM
  #794
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
And yet despite him having a decent season, the Sabres are still last in the league, so that quote still rings true.

A better example of someone who defies the notion of "a goalie is only good as the team in front of him" is Dominik Hasek, because he was capable of dragging some really bad Buffalo teams deep into the playoffs. Very few goalies are capable of doing that though.
But Miller still has the 6th best sv% in the league

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01-13-2014, 10:12 AM
  #795
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So do I. But I hesitate to do so with Lundqvist as well.

And it's simply not true that Richter played behind great teams aside from the early 90's. These were Muckler, Low and Trottier coached teams with zero identity except for the star names playing forward. The intensity of the suck of some defenses he played behind is not debatable... I mean - Kevin Hatcher. Jeff Finley. Rmun Ndur. Rich Pilon. Leetch and Beukeboom were like minus 30 some of those years. See what I'm saying?
Not really. Richter was hurt and when he did play, he wasn't able to drag those horrible teams to the playoffs. His team success is relative to the years that he had a great team in front of him. I don't think Lundqvist has ever had a great team in front of him.

And no, I don't think Lundqvist is great either, but if his next 7 years look anything like his first 8, he will be. The cup has nothing to do with it.

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01-13-2014, 10:26 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not really. Richter was hurt and when he did play, he wasn't able to drag those horrible teams to the playoffs. His team success is relative to the years that he had a great team in front of him. I don't think Lundqvist has ever had a great team in front of him.

And no, I don't think Lundqvist is great either, but if his next 7 years look anything like his first 8, he will be. The cup has nothing to do with it.
My premise is that, like Lundqvist, Richter was a damn good goalie for his time. Richter had some issues at the end of the 90's and finally his skull fracture after 2002, he had always been quite durable aside from that.

Lundqvist has had a couple of pretty darn good teams in front of him and when he hasn't he's had a very tight defensive team in front of him. That's helped, obviously.

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01-13-2014, 10:41 AM
  #797
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Tell that to Ryan Miller.
And Luongo during his Florida years.

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01-13-2014, 10:44 AM
  #798
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And Luongo during his Florida years.
The current Buffalo team and those Luongo Panther teams didn't win a thing. Isn't that what this conversation is about? Team wins and goaltender performance are 2 different things. Richter's quote, I'd assume, is about team accomplishments and winning.

Here we are, 14 years into Sather's tenure, and we're still expecting a goaltender to carry mediocre teams to a Stanley Cup. And some folks lash out at Lundqvist when he can't. Its twisted and perverse logic. Its scapegoating is what it is.

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01-13-2014, 11:16 AM
  #799
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I think its sad you had to wait 8 years to make this stupid argument and that its quickly slipping away from you. So fleeting.
Wrong, I have been saying for about 5 years he is overrated. People on this site want to buy into the MSG PR machine, that is your business and nothing is slipping away from me.

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01-13-2014, 11:20 AM
  #800
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not really. Richter was hurt and when he did play, he wasn't able to drag those horrible teams to the playoffs. His team success is relative to the years that he had a great team in front of him. I don't think Lundqvist has ever had a great team in front of him.

And no, I don't think Lundqvist is great either, but if his next 7 years look anything like his first 8, he will be. The cup has nothing to do with it.
You are so off on Richter, it is not even funny. IF his next 7 years. "IF", the biggest word in the English language despite being only 2 letters. And, that should be if his next 7 are like 3 of his first 8 (05-06, 06-07, and 11-12) then he will go down as great. But, fans care about one thing and that is the Cup. If he doesn't win a cup, he will never be held in as high regard as Richter.

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