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Sun., Jan. 12, 2014| Flyers 1 at Rangers 4

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Old
01-13-2014, 05:21 AM
  #76
bbcelite
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
This whole team needs him badly. We're so slow without him in the lineup and that defensive responsibility is hard to replace.

Berube continues to disappoint with all of his decisions. The system is working out, and I'm ecstatic about that after that Lavi travesty but his decisions, man.. That 2nd PP unit gets entirely too much time (even though they got the goal) and so does the 3rd and 4th lines. Giroux and Voracek need to start getting a lot more ice time, especially when Cout's line isn't doing anything special defensively. Bout time to get Raffl off that wing as well. No complaints about the second line today, having a line that can forecheck is nice.
Are you serious???!!

The Raffl idea is okay. Lets try
vinny - G - V
Harts - Schenn - Simmer
Raffl - Couts - McGinn (or Downie)
XX - VV - Hall

// About the Rosehill hate. Im fine with him, I mean he plays what? Every 3rd game for 5 minutes. Against the Rags he had 4 hits ...

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01-13-2014, 07:34 AM
  #77
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I was watching NHL Tonight and they scolded B. Schenn for an "eye jab". It looked like a normal punch to me and I don't see anyone here complaining about it, so I don't know what they were talking about. They even stopped the footage and highlighted the fist like a tv show where something is caught on a security camera.

Kevin Weekes said something like "this is the NHL, bad move by Schenn".

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01-13-2014, 07:37 AM
  #78
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Berube won't do anything at all because he's a bad coach
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Berube continues to disappoint with all of his decisions.
I am not sure what people are expecting him to do with team that still lacks talent and is poorly constructed especially on the blue line.

The modern game is all about speed and moving the puck. Good teams get on the defensemen so fast now without the redline you have to get the puck out of the zone even faster. Puck skills are at a premium as well as making fast smart decisions in your own zone. The flyers have two defensemen that have virtually no puck skills and limited mobility in Luke Schenn and Grossmann. These guys are a liability against fast teams and well as tight checking teams that make them move the puck quickly. They need limited minutes to prevent the flyers from getting continuously stuck in their own zone and on the pk. You also have two offensive defensemen who are prone to turnovers in Meszaros and Streit who needs their minutes controlled against softer competition and with offensive zone starts. So that is 4 out of six guys who are practically one dimensional and all need their minutes limited in some way. So the flyers basically have two third pairs.

To counter the crap on the defense, the flyers forwards have to play a more defensive tight checking game. That is not natural to a lot of the forwards, such as Hartnell, B. Schenn, and Lecavalier, so there will be still be break downs in coverage. You also have players playing out of position, which has minimized their offensive production, and have them trying to learn new defensive assignments with again too many centers. There are going to be breakdowns that requires good to great goaltending to cover for the lapses, which the flyers did not get this weekend.

Berube has done the best he can with this crap sandwich. The blueline is not playoff calibre even in the east. The fact that the Flyers are in a playoff position is a testament to his coaching. Until the blueline is fixed, this team is not a serious cup contender and will be on the playoff bubble.

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01-13-2014, 07:37 AM
  #79
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Pretty ugly game there last night, but a lot of it was bad bounces against the Flyers and great saves by Lundqvist.

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01-13-2014, 07:38 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseGolfCarts View Post
I was watching NHL Tonight and they scolded B. Schenn for an "eye jab". It looked like a normal punch to me and I don't see anyone here complaining about it, so I don't know what they were talking about. They even stopped the footage and highlighted the fist like a tv show where something is caught on a security camera.

Kevin Weekes said something like "this is the NHL, bad move by Schenn".
That whole fight was pretty lame. Didn't anyone else think Schenn looked like a little brother fighting his older brother with those weird short punches he was throwing?

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01-13-2014, 07:38 AM
  #81
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If this weekend wasn't an eye opener to Holmgren to upgrade this D, I'm not sure he'll ever get it.

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Old
01-13-2014, 07:45 AM
  #82
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Needs more Bobby Ryan


"He can't spell intense"

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Old
01-13-2014, 07:55 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That whole fight was pretty lame. Didn't anyone else think Schenn looked like a little brother fighting his older brother with those weird short punches he was throwing?
It was really weird and stupid looking but what's he suppose to do when the guy buries his face in Schenns chest like that?

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01-13-2014, 07:56 AM
  #84
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I do not care if B Schenn is not the greatest fighter, what counts is he willing to step up and fight . I think it was Shjon Podein who step up to fight but would never win.

L Schenn looked quite strong the way he threw Carcilo around.

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01-13-2014, 08:40 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseGolfCarts View Post
I was watching NHL Tonight and they scolded B. Schenn for an "eye jab". It looked like a normal punch to me and I don't see anyone here complaining about it, so I don't know what they were talking about. They even stopped the footage and highlighted the fist like a tv show where something is caught on a security camera.

Kevin Weekes said something like "this is the NHL, bad move by Schenn".


Kevin Weeks is a Goof. I can't stand watching him after Berube's first game Rosehill was given an extra two minutes. Berube was given the choice to accept a five-on-three disadvantage for two minutes or a five-on-four disadvantage for four minutes. Berube chose the back to back 5 on 4. Weeks and the guys on NHL Network said Berube made a mistake buy choosing the 5 on 3, then the idiots on TSN including Bob McKenzie repeated it. Idiots!

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Old
01-13-2014, 10:00 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not sure what people are expecting him to do with team that still lacks talent and is poorly constructed especially on the blue line.

The modern game is all about speed and moving the puck. Good teams get on the defensemen so fast now without the redline you have to get the puck out of the zone even faster. Puck skills are at a premium as well as making fast smart decisions in your own zone. The flyers have two defensemen that have virtually no puck skills and limited mobility in Luke Schenn and Grossmann. These guys are a liability against fast teams and well as tight checking teams that make them move the puck quickly. They need limited minutes to prevent the flyers from getting continuously stuck in their own zone and on the pk. You also have two offensive defensemen who are prone to turnovers in Meszaros and Streit who needs their minutes controlled against softer competition and with offensive zone starts. So that is 4 out of six guys who are practically one dimensional and all need their minutes limited in some way. So the flyers basically have two third pairs.

To counter the crap on the defense, the flyers forwards have to play a more defensive tight checking game. That is not natural to a lot of the forwards, such as Hartnell, B. Schenn, and Lecavalier, so there will be still be break downs in coverage. You also have players playing out of position, which has minimized their offensive production, and have them trying to learn new defensive assignments with again too many centers. There are going to be breakdowns that requires good to great goaltending to cover for the lapses, which the flyers did not get this weekend.

Berube has done the best he can with this crap sandwich. The blueline is not playoff calibre even in the east. The fact that the Flyers are in a playoff position is a testament to his coaching. Until the blueline is fixed, this team is not a serious cup contender and will be on the playoff bubble.
100% percent agreed. This defense is poorly assembled.

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Old
01-13-2014, 10:07 AM
  #87
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If this weekend wasn't an eye opener to Holmgren to upgrade this D, I'm not sure he'll ever get it.
Unless you want him to pay a premium for Big Buff there's not really much out there for him to target.

The fact that he's been drafting a **** ton of defensemen the last two drafts seems to indicate to me that he's not comfortable with it going foward.

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Old
01-13-2014, 10:48 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not sure what people are expecting him to do with team that still lacks talent and is poorly constructed especially on the blue line.

The modern game is all about speed and moving the puck. Good teams get on the defensemen so fast now without the redline you have to get the puck out of the zone even faster. Puck skills are at a premium as well as making fast smart decisions in your own zone. The flyers have two defensemen that have virtually no puck skills and limited mobility in Luke Schenn and Grossmann. These guys are a liability against fast teams and well as tight checking teams that make them move the puck quickly. They need limited minutes to prevent the flyers from getting continuously stuck in their own zone and on the pk. You also have two offensive defensemen who are prone to turnovers in Meszaros and Streit who needs their minutes controlled against softer competition and with offensive zone starts. So that is 4 out of six guys who are practically one dimensional and all need their minutes limited in some way. So the flyers basically have two third pairs.

To counter the crap on the defense, the flyers forwards have to play a more defensive tight checking game. That is not natural to a lot of the forwards, such as Hartnell, B. Schenn, and Lecavalier, so there will be still be break downs in coverage. You also have players playing out of position, which has minimized their offensive production, and have them trying to learn new defensive assignments with again too many centers. There are going to be breakdowns that requires good to great goaltending to cover for the lapses, which the flyers did not get this weekend.

Berube has done the best he can with this crap sandwich. The blueline is not playoff calibre even in the east. The fact that the Flyers are in a playoff position is a testament to his coaching. Until the blueline is fixed, this team is not a serious cup contender and will be on the playoff bubble.
This is all true to some extent, but you have to concede that Berube has never stopped making baffling lineup decisions since he took over and his whole preaching of accountability seems to be bull.

There's things he can control very easily that he just ends up messing around with for some reason or another. There isn't much he can do with this team on paper since we have problems at all three positions, but being fighting for a playoff spot isn't as much a testament to his coaching as much as it is a testament to how stale Laviolette had gotten and how extremely far below their career production everyone on the roster was. This is more just getting rid of a cancer coach and having players revert to their normal selves then Berube doing something magical or great with the team.

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Old
01-13-2014, 11:26 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not sure what people are expecting him to do with team that still lacks talent and is poorly constructed especially on the blue line.

The modern game is all about speed and moving the puck. Good teams get on the defensemen so fast now without the redline you have to get the puck out of the zone even faster. Puck skills are at a premium as well as making fast smart decisions in your own zone. The flyers have two defensemen that have virtually no puck skills and limited mobility in Luke Schenn and Grossmann. These guys are a liability against fast teams and well as tight checking teams that make them move the puck quickly. They need limited minutes to prevent the flyers from getting continuously stuck in their own zone and on the pk. You also have two offensive defensemen who are prone to turnovers in Meszaros and Streit who needs their minutes controlled against softer competition and with offensive zone starts. So that is 4 out of six guys who are practically one dimensional and all need their minutes limited in some way. So the flyers basically have two third pairs.

To counter the crap on the defense, the flyers forwards have to play a more defensive tight checking game. That is not natural to a lot of the forwards, such as Hartnell, B. Schenn, and Lecavalier, so there will be still be break downs in coverage. You also have players playing out of position, which has minimized their offensive production, and have them trying to learn new defensive assignments with again too many centers. There are going to be breakdowns that requires good to great goaltending to cover for the lapses, which the flyers did not get this weekend.

Berube has done the best he can with this crap sandwich. The blueline is not playoff calibre even in the east. The fact that the Flyers are in a playoff position is a testament to his coaching. Until the blueline is fixed, this team is not a serious cup contender and will be on the playoff bubble.
What do I want him to do?

How about make lineup decisions that look like they took the slightest bit of thought instead of bad ones over and over? Nobody is blaming him for the players he has to work with, he can't make signings or trades. The problem is that he either uses the players wrong way or he uses the wrong players.

You think the team needs quicker defensmen who don't get so easily beat by quick players and provide some offense? Guess what? I agree, and it just so happens that we have a speedy defensemen named Gustaffson who's also pretty good offensively. I'm not some delusional guy sitting here thinking Gus is an amazing defensemen who's the answer to all our problems, but he's certainly a better choice than Mez or Gill. So get the piece of garbage Mez out of there, because although he may make nice offensive plays rarely, they would have to be much more frequent to make up for how horrible he is defensively. Now obviously Gustaffson was injured, which clearly isn't Berubes fault, but even before that he sat Gus many times in favor of Mez. Even now I believe I heard Gus was reported to be cleared to play and Berube will probably keep Mez in. Streit doesn't bother me as much because even though he isn't great defensively, he does have good defensive moments and he's very good offensively.

Now you also mention that because the defense is pretty poor the forwards need to help out more, which isn't natural to forwards like Hartnell, Schenn, and Lecavelier. Then Berube should be smart enough to get Lecavelier off of what used to be our strongest defensive line. The top line is no longer on fire like it was so I don't have much of a problem moving Raffl off of it, although he did a very good job there. The best option right now is probably

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecavelier-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read(when he's back)
Downie-Hall-VV

Timonen-Coburn
Grossman-Streit
Gustaffson-Schenn

Mason
Heeter/Emery

(Also swap Timonen and Streit on the PP units)

I'd rather not move Schenn from center but Lecavelier needs to get off the 3rd line and he isn't better than Voracek and Simmonds so 2nd line center is the only spot for him. Then that pushes Schenn to wing so either Schenn or Hartnell would be the 1st line RW, where I would really like to see Schenn tried out. Then Raffl can go down to the 3rd line since he is good defensively and is solid offensively. He'll help both Couturier and Read ( when he's healthy) in both the offensive and defensive zones. Downie slides down to the useless 4th line since he's been bad lately and he'll be far more useful here than as a healthy scratch. Then just swap Gus for Mez for the reasons I listed above in addition to the fact that Schenn plays better with Gus than Mez. Last, get rid of Emery. He's terrible and although Heeter could very well be just as bad, it's worth a shot since he can at least go side to side at fast that glacier speeds. So many of the goals against Emery are direct results from his unbelievably slow movement. If Heeter doesn't work, which is likely, bring Emery back in and only play him against bad teams or at least not divisional rivals. If Berube was smart he would have played Emery against TB so his damn starter could play against the Rangers and then put Emery back in against Buffalo.

The fact that they're in/near a playoff spot is not a "testament" to his coaching, it's a testament to the skill and potential this team has and the fact that they're playing more like expected instead of horribly underachieving. His lineups decisions have done nothing to help whatsoever and have probably hurt them.

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Old
01-13-2014, 11:31 AM
  #90
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I'd love to acquire Wiercoch, Michalek not so much...
Ya Wier would be a great pickup for you guys, I see what you mean about Milo but in all honestly he started the year out like crap but since playing on a line with Zibanejad and Conacher hes been really solid, not so much scoring tons and tons of points but has great hustle and speed on the fore check. From watching all the games this season his value should be bigger now than it was 15 games ago, he would be a solid replacement for Simmonds while getting Wiercioch and 3rd in the process.

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