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Old
01-13-2014, 09:58 AM
  #201
crasherino
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Regardless of what happens as far as the standings go, the emergence of de Haan is a big win for us this year.
And, if it happens that we can't keep this pace up and it looks like we will be sellers more than buyers at the deadline, the emergence of CdH makes me more inclined to want to move AMac at the deadline to recoup the Vanek picks we lost - especially if we want to roll the dice with Vanek and keep him at the deadline even if he's still unsigned.

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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Yeah I saw that, I was thinking, holy crap that was de Haan who just crushed that guy. Obviously he's been working on his strength too. Imagine if he could ever get to 200 pounds. Loved Tavares' reaction after scoring against Dallas, pointing to de Haan and basically saying, what a great ****ing pass !
Yeah, that was awesome. He was obviously ecstatic that they just took the lead but it was more than that. It truly was a "HOLY ****....that was an other worldly play!" moment.

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01-13-2014, 10:04 AM
  #202
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Yeah, that was awesome. He was obviously ecstatic that they just took the lead but it was more than that. It truly was a "HOLY ****....that was an other worldly play!" moment.
I think JT mentioned that when he looked at CdH after the goal, he looked like he didn't know how to react or somewhat confused. Johnny had to be like, 'dude that was sick, why aren't you excited?'. LOL.

CdH has ice water in his veins even when he makes a great play. Check that kid for a pulse.

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01-13-2014, 10:17 AM
  #203
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The way CDH is playing you can't wait to watch the next game. It's almost like what is he going to do next? We knew he is skilled and smart, but he has gone beyond anything we could have hoped for, really stunning. Good for him, good for team.

To Cappy and Weight, how about some powerplay time already.

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01-13-2014, 11:20 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
The way CDH is playing you can't wait to watch the next game. It's almost like what is he going to do next? We knew he is skilled and smart, but he has gone beyond anything we could have hoped for, really stunning. Good for him, good for team.

To Cappy and Weight, how about some powerplay time already.
Got to get Hamonic off the PP, he's terrible. He can't hit the net with his shot if his life depended on it and he has no offensive vision to move the puck. He either dumps it in the corner or shoots it wide.

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01-13-2014, 11:28 AM
  #205
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Got to get Hamonic off the PP, he's terrible. He can't hit the net with his shot if his life depended on it and he has no offensive vision to move the puck. He either dumps it in the corner or shoots it wide.
Getting Vis back and getting CdH some PP time could really make a big difference in our PP-effectiveness.

The only problem with giving CdH PP time is that he's already playing 22+ min a night without it. Giving him steady 1st unit time could get him into that 25-30 min category which could ultimately wear him out. He's still only 21 games into his NHL season, and considering the amount of time he's missed the past few years it is uncertain whether or not he can hold up over a full season. Much less a full season that includes 40-50 games of 25+ top pairing NHL minutes.

I won't rule it out though. The kid has been that good.

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01-13-2014, 11:32 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Getting Vis back and getting CdH some PP time could really make a big difference in our PP-effectiveness.

The only problem with giving CdH PP time is that he's already playing 22+ min a night without it. Giving him steady 1st unit time could get him into that 25-30 min category which could ultimately wear him out. He's still only 21 games into his NHL season, and considering the amount of time he's missed the past few years it is uncertain whether or not he can hold up over a full season. Much less a full season that includes 40-50 games of 25+ top pairing NHL minutes.

I won't rule it out though. The kid has been that good.
He only played 22 minutes because they were running 5 D for the 3rd period. Strait played 21 minutes.

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01-13-2014, 11:34 AM
  #207
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He only played 22 minutes because they were running 5 D for the 3rd period. Strait played 21 minutes.
Speaking of this, has anyone heard anything about Hamonic?

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01-13-2014, 11:34 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
The way CDH is playing you can't wait to watch the next game. It's almost like what is he going to do next? We knew he is skilled and smart, but he has gone beyond anything we could have hoped for, really stunning. Good for him, good for team.

To Cappy and Weight, how about some powerplay time already.
Yeah its a crime that CDH isn't on the PP point with Amac.

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01-13-2014, 11:44 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by dspbathroom View Post
Speaking of this, has anyone heard anything about Hamonic?
Apparently Hammer wasn't feeling well after the 2nd. Dehydration I believe.

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01-13-2014, 11:47 AM
  #210
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Apparently Hammer wasn't feeling well after the 2nd. Dehydration I believe.
Thanks!

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01-13-2014, 11:57 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
He only played 22 minutes because they were running 5 D for the 3rd period. Strait played 21 minutes.
He played 21:22 against COL and 23:30 against TOR the previous two games. Prior to that he was 24 seconds short of 22 minutes against Carolina, and 14 seconds short of 22 against Chicago. I think it's pretty safe to call him a 22-min defenseman at this point, regardless of the 5-man rotation last night.

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01-13-2014, 12:00 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Getting Vis back and getting CdH some PP time could really make a big difference in our PP-effectiveness.

The only problem with giving CdH PP time is that he's already playing 22+ min a night without it. Giving him steady 1st unit time could get him into that 25-30 min category which could ultimately wear him out. He's still only 21 games into his NHL season, and considering the amount of time he's missed the past few years it is uncertain whether or not he can hold up over a full season. Much less a full season that includes 40-50 games of 25+ top pairing NHL minutes.

I won't rule it out though. The kid has been that good.
great post. you nailed it. hopefully it sinks in to others.

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01-13-2014, 12:01 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Yeah its a crime that CDH isn't on the PP point with Amac.
It's a crime that CdH is 5th on the PP depth chart. The only person they won't put in before him is Brian Strait. Yeesh. 1st unit has AMac, 2nd unit has Hamonic-Donovan, and was Hamonic-Hickey before Donovan came back up, even when CdH was playing.

Though, it's hard to criticize the PP choices at this exact moment because they have been blistering hot during our little winning streak. I still think there's room for improvement, but scoring at 50% clip is something you usually don't mess with at the professional level. Ultimately, I want to eventually see Strome replace Nielsen and CdH replace AMac. I think that puts all of our best PP players on the 1st unit. JT-Vanek-Strome-Okposo-CdH. That has some serious playmaking and puck controlling.

It also allows us to run a 2nd unit of Bailey-Nielsen-Nelson-AMac-Hickey, which is a thousand times better than whatever the heck our 2nd unit is now.

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01-13-2014, 12:27 PM
  #214
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Nice article by Staple:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...medium=twitter

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01-13-2014, 11:59 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I wonder if anyone on a national level is taking notice of deHaan? Grapes should be mentioning him sooner or later if he keeps it up.

So if Calvin holds serve or continues to improve what's that do to our defense next season?

Hamonic & deHaan
Vis & (Hickey, Reinhart)
AMac & (Hickey, Reinhart)
Strait?

If AMac is traded I don't like Reinhart with Strait so...

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01-14-2014, 12:02 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Yeah its a crime that CDH isn't on the PP point with Amac.
He's been playing well. I say let him continue to do so without piling more on his plate 20 games into his NHL career.

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01-14-2014, 01:34 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I wonder if anyone on a national level is taking notice of deHaan? Grapes should be mentioning him sooner or later if he keeps it up.

So if Calvin holds serve or continues to improve what's that do to our defense next season?

Hamonic & deHaan
Vis & (Hickey, Reinhart)
AMac & (Hickey, Reinhart)
Strait?

If AMac is traded I don't like Reinhart with Strait so...
I think they re-sign AMac to a deal similar to what Hamonic got.

de Haan - Hamonic
Reinhart - Visnovsky
AMac - Hickey
Strait/Carkner

I think that is a solid upgrade over what we went into this season with, even though it's just a slight difference.

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01-14-2014, 01:48 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
I think they re-sign AMac to a deal similar to what Hamonic got.

de Haan - Hamonic
Reinhart - Visnovsky
AMac - Hickey
Strait/Carkner

I think that is a solid upgrade over what we went into this season with, even though it's just a slight difference.
But, is that the upgrade that we truly need?

Vis is only getting older and now has concussion history.
AMac wont be on the bottom pairing either, especially if he gets a deal similar to Hamonic's (if he doesnt walk for a bigger contract). Let's say we potentially lose AMac. Are you comfortable with a regular rotation of Strait in that mix instead? I'm not.
I hope deHaan continues to pan out, but at this point its up in the air. I know I've gotten heat for saying that the past few days, but 20 games is way too little to anoint the kid a #1 D savior. He's been playing great, no question. Really hope he kicks ass and continues, but, its still early into his career. He also has had an unfortunate shoulder plague...hopefully it doesnt strike again.
Also, we have no idea what Reinhart will do except for the few games we saw him in the camps and preseason. Like deHaan, way too early to have a proper assessment of his game.

I still believe that we need 1 more veteran presence on that blueline. Pairing a guy like deHaan, Hickey, Reinhart, or even Hammer with potential UFA's such as Morris, Girardi, Mitchell, Green, Meszaros, Niskanen, Sarich, Robidas, Orpik, etc. would do wonders. Do I think the majority of the guys I listed re-up with their current team? Yes, I do. Do I think we have a legitimate chance at some of the guys I named? No, I dont. But, those are just some UFA's I know are coming up off the top of my head.

The D has been playing better, but the group you've listed would be still green compared to most in the NHL. In addition, we've seen what a few injuries can do to the group. We've seen guys like Hammer fall into a regression because it seems he is trying to do too much. That's not his game. Same goes for AMac...though, I dont know why Cappy uses him so much. Guy brain farts 9 out of every 10 plays. I truly believe that another established defenseman would help our prospects grow. I believe it would provide a more calming presence. In addition, it would help slot the D better and place guys into more effective roles.

That would be a solid upgrade, in my opinion.


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01-14-2014, 05:12 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
I think they re-sign AMac to a deal similar to what Hamonic got.

de Haan - Hamonic
Reinhart - Visnovsky
AMac - Hickey
Strait/Carkner

I think that is a solid upgrade over what we went into this season with, even though it's just a slight difference.
I think that you are right, that will be Snow's offer. Whether he accepts or not depends on if his agent thinks his market value is higher elsewhere (good bye and good luck lol). I think Hammer money is too much for a mistake prone 3rd pairing guy when he could be pushed out by bigger, more talented replacements in a year or two.

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01-14-2014, 07:31 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Groin Of Bates View Post
But, is that the upgrade that we truly need?
It might not be the one we truely need, but it's the most likely scenerio.
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Vis is only getting older and now has concussion history.
AMac wont be on the bottom pairing either, especially if he gets a deal similar to Hamonic's (if he doesnt walk for a bigger contract).
Regardless of his age and injury history, he would still be in our top 4... even if we signed a couple D men on the UFA market. And 3.5m (Hamonics contract) is the going rate for a 3rd pairing D, so I'm not sure how that prevents him from playing on the bottom pair. Cal Clutterbuck is making more money than a few guys ahead of him too.

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Let's say we potentially lose AMac. Are you comfortable with a regular rotation of Strait in that mix instead? I'm not.
I view Strait as being even with AMac defensively. Granted, I wouldn't switch the two if I had the choice, but I'm not crying in my beer if it comes down to that.

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I hope deHaan continues to pan out, but at this point its up in the air. I know I've gotten heat for saying that the past few days, but 20 games is way too little to anoint the kid a #1 D savior. He's been playing great, no question. Really hope he kicks ass and continues, but, its still early into his career. He also has had an unfortunate shoulder plague...hopefully it doesnt strike again.
I can't get on anyone for having their reservations. As you know, I've been a big supporter of Calvin since he was drafted. I consider myself a realist, and I have no problem saying that this kid is not only the real deal, but he's only going to get better with time. That said, injuries are a concern..... but they are a concern for anyone that plays a contact sport. His last one was very similar to the one that sidelined Strait for a whole season. Just a freaky play that could have happened to anyone.

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Also, we have no idea what Reinhart will do except for the few games we saw him in the camps and preseason. Like deHaan, way too early to have a proper assessment of his game.
I disagree to a point. I've watched the kid a lot, and he's ready for the show. Besides that, in the last two camps he managed to play better than pretty much everyone we had on the blueline other than Visnovsky and Hamonic. He's already made the team once, so it isn't far fetched to say he's going to do it again with even more developmental time under his belt.

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I still believe that we need 1 more veteran presence on that blueline. Pairing a guy like deHaan, Hickey, Reinhart, or even Hammer with potential UFA's such as Morris, Girardi, Mitchell, Green, Meszaros, Niskanen, Sarich, Robidas, Orpik, etc. would do wonders.
Oh, believe me.... I totally agree with you, and in a perfect world, we get two of those guys. It's not likely to happen though, and we do need veterans if we're going to go with young D.... it's just going to have to be Hamonic, Visnovsky and AMac. That's my thinking anyway. Not optimal, but the most likely scenerio.

Quote:
Do I think the majority of the guys I listed re-up with their current team? Yes, I do. Do I think we have a legitimate chance at some of the guys I named? No, I dont. But, those are just some UFA's I know are coming up off the top of my head.
Well, that's all I'm saying.

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The D has been playing better, but the group you've listed would be still green compared to most in the NHL. In addition, we've seen what a few injuries can do to the group. We've seen guys like Hammer fall into a regression because it seems he is trying to do too much. That's not his game. Same goes for AMac...though, I dont know why Cappy uses him so much. Guy brain farts 9 out of every 10 plays.
If we only let in a rookie defenseman every couple years, this rebuild is going to take another 3-5 years. At some point, you have to let the kids sink or swim, and for Reinhart that time came awhile ago. Injuries always happen, you can't plan for it, and you will never build a team impervious to it.

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I truly believe that another established defenseman would help our prospects grow. I believe it would provide a more calming presence. In addition, it would help slot the D better and place guys into more effective roles.That would be a solid upgrade, in my opinion.
In a perfect world, yes. But as even you admitted in this very post.... it isn't likely to happen. So are we to downgrade the defense, because of this by letting AMac walk? AMac becomes that veteran presence.

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01-14-2014, 07:35 AM
  #221
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I think that you are right, that will be Snow's offer. Whether he accepts or not depends on if his agent thinks his market value is higher elsewhere (good bye and good luck lol).
I get the feeling that he would accept it, but that's just my opinion. You got it right though, if that isn't enough you let him walk.

Quote:
I think Hammer money is too much for a mistake prone 3rd pairing guy when he could be pushed out by bigger, more talented replacements in a year or two.
I actually think it's just about right. That is the going rate for a bottom half defenseman right now (4-5-6). I really believe that as the D improves and he gets less and less responsibilities, he will get better and better. Right now he's not only getting a ton of minutes, but he's facing tougher competition. I feel like he's played better since being dropped to a lower pairing due to the emergence of CdH. And I believe that trend will continue.

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01-14-2014, 09:08 AM
  #222
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I think JT mentioned that when he looked at CdH after the goal, he looked like he didn't know how to react or somewhat confused. Johnny had to be like, 'dude that was sick, why aren't you excited?'. LOL.

CdH has ice water in his veins even when he makes a great play. Check that kid for a pulse.

Ice water indeed. That's I why I can't wait for Reinhart. He's a 6'4 de Haan with a huge slapper. They play so similar IMO.

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01-14-2014, 09:38 AM
  #223
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I'm not as high on Hickey as everyone else on this forum. I'll take Strait over him any day of the week. Hickey is not going to get any bigger and we really haven't seen much offense to expect a lot of points from him. He's really been no better than Strait statically. I'm guessing the coaching staff feels the same since they have dropped him down to third pairing minutes with Donovan and Carkner.

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01-14-2014, 09:47 AM
  #224
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I'm not as high on Hickey as everyone else on this forum. I'll take Strait over him any day of the week. Hickey is not going to get any bigger and we really haven't seen much offense to expect a lot of points from him. He's really been no better than Strait statically. I'm guessing the coaching staff feels the same since they have dropped him down to third pairing minutes with Donovan and Carkner.
I think they have him with Donovan because he's smart enough and quick enough to cover the rookie's mistakes. I could be wrong though.

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01-14-2014, 09:51 AM
  #225
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I'm not as high on Hickey as everyone else on this forum. I'll take Strait over him any day of the week. Hickey is not going to get any bigger and we really haven't seen much offense to expect a lot of points from him. He's really been no better than Strait statically. I'm guessing the coaching staff feels the same since they have dropped him down to third pairing minutes with Donovan and Carkner.
Hickey didn't play his way down to the third pair, DeHaan played his way up to the first pair. The total team defense has gotten better with Hickey on third pair. He is very good at getting the transition game going. He has a goal and four assists in his last 8 games. That production from a third pair defenseman is GOLD in this league.

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