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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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01-13-2014, 10:24 AM
  #726
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Trading Callahan and Girardi isn't rebuilding. Their contracts are up. They want big contracts. Its a business. The Rangers have talked to both players. No progress has been made. Callahan is a third line winger on this team. He plays on the PK. Vigneault doesn't use him on the PP. Many people say the Rangers can't trade or not re-sign the captain of the team because it doesn't look. They sound like AROD who is obsessed with how people perceive him. The Rangers will either meet the asking price or they won't. Sather and Gorton should trade him. Same thing with Girardi.
I agree with this. There are 5-6 guys who I think are prime candidates to be traded (and of course there's Richards, who can't be moved unfortunately, but MUST be amnestied this offseason). They are:

Girardi
Callahan
MDZ
Staal
Boyle
Moore

Now, you've got to keep one of the defensemen - and all other things being equal, I'd go with Staal or even MDZ (whose game has improved leaps and bounds in the last week or so as he's settled in to regular play on the left side). Other than that, almost everyone above can be moved - AND MOST OF THEM WOULDN'T HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON THE TEAM'S RESULTS. These are not the guys who've been making the difference in play in recent games or really at all this year. The only one that would hurt would be Girardi (more because there's no candidate to replace him than because he's been having a major positive impact on games). I grant you that, and I'm willing to take those lumps, especially if the assets coming back include one or more RH defensemen.

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01-13-2014, 10:29 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Trading Callahan and Girardi isn't rebuilding. Their contracts are up. They want big contracts. Its a business.
Agreed with this. If you are not signing Girardi to his $6m, then he needs to be moved. Same with Callahan's number. Callahan is not a $5m player.

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01-13-2014, 10:53 AM
  #728
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Girardi is a top pair D by default. What will Girardi be in the middle of his contract at the age of 34? He gets a 7 year deal and there will threads dedicated to trading Girardi for another contract headache like the Liles for Gleason trade. Girardi will get a NTC with X number of teams he would OK a trade to. People are falling in love with the Rangers play in the last 3 weeks. I like Girardi very much. I remember fighting with people here in the summer of 2010 about his 4 year contract being a good contract. Someone here thought Colin White was a better player. The Rangers shouldn't give Girardi 7 years at in the $6M range. +/- $250-$500K. Same thing with Captain Cally. If the Rangers aren't comfortable meeting the asking demands of Stephen Bartlett,they shouldn't just because it won't look good. Bartlett was a pain in the ass in the 2011 contract talks. The Rangers wanted a longer contract than 3 year but Bartlett wanted too much money.

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01-13-2014, 10:57 AM
  #729
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Girardi and Callahan need to be resigned, period. Richards is getting bought out this offseason and the cap is going up. We can afford it. However, if either of them are asking for completely ridiculous contracts they need to be moved. I'd like to think at least Callahan would take a slight discount to stay captain of NYR. Girardi I could see bolting

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01-13-2014, 10:59 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What will Girardi be in the middle of his contract at the age of 34?
I'd say that he'll probably be a very steady, experienced defender who will eat tons of minutes without being flashy at all. He'll be a team leader. A truly valuable veteran who will spellbind his younger teammates with yarns about what it was like when Callahan was Captain and they were all learning AV's system.

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01-13-2014, 11:00 AM
  #731
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Girardi shouldn't get more than five years, and I personally wouldn't go more than four years.

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01-13-2014, 11:02 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Girardi and Callahan need to be resigned, period. Richards is getting bought out this offseason and the cap is going up. We can afford it. However, if either of them are asking for completely ridiculous contracts they need to be moved. I'd like to think at least Callahan would take a slight discount to stay captain of NYR. Girardi I could see bolting
From a $ standpoint, they can afford it. From a team building standpoint, they really can't. They can't afford to give good players the type of contracts great players should be getting.

As for them asking for "ridiculous contracts," the writing is on the wall. If they were going to accept hometown discounts, they would've done so already. These are their retirement contracts - the notion they are going to show allegiance to the Rangers is laughable.

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01-13-2014, 11:03 AM
  #733
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Regardless of what people want, I'd bet Sather trades neither Girardi nor Callahan. I'm not sure if I think that's good or not, I guess it depends on what they sign for. However, I think it's insane to say that losing either or both of them wouldn't affect the team. It very, very likely would.

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01-13-2014, 11:03 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Agreed with this. If you are not signing Girardi to his $6m, then he needs to be moved. Same with Callahan's number. Callahan is not a $5m player.
Callahan's salary is $4.825M this season. He is already a $5M player. Clarkson got $5.25M for 7 years. Clarkson has 1 goal in the last 21. Callahan is getting more $ than that. Dustin Brown got $47M for 8 years and it was viewed as a discount. LA gave Brown the 8th year. The cap is still $5.875M and its for 8. For 7,the cap hit will be higher. Callahan isn't a $6M player.

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01-13-2014, 11:06 AM
  #735
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4 years $6 million per for Girardi. That's the max this team should go. Pay him a bit more for the shorter term.

I would explore trading options for Callahan.

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01-13-2014, 11:07 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Callahan's salary is $4.825M this season. He is already a $5M player. Clarkson got $5.25M for 7 years. Clarkson has 1 goal in the last 21. Callahan is getting more $ than that. Dustin Brown got $47M for 8 years and it was viewed as a discount. LA gave Brown the 8th year. The cap is still $5.875M and its for 8. For 7,the cap hit will be higher. Callahan isn't a $6M player.
More importantly if he isn't a 6 mil player now he definitely won't be in 7-8 years.

These two have disaster written all over them.

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01-13-2014, 11:13 AM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Fair enough. When looking at it that way, I think Girardi is the safer investment.
It's all dependent on exactly what Callahan and Girardi are looking for. Is Callahan going to want $7M? Is Girardi going to want $8M? Something that I would consider far too much for either? If that happens, then you have to take a long, hard look at moving them both.

Signing players costs money. More often than not, the money required is more than their play truly warrants. It's the ****** reality of it. I don't want any more bad contracts on the team, but I do think there's something to be said for continuity. I'm okay with going a little above a "good" contract for either guy if that's what it takes to keep the core of the team together.

We could trade Callahan and Girardi, buy out Richards, and then still lose some guys in free agency. Boyle and Pouliot, maybe someone throws a ton of cash at Stralman. Suddenly we've turned over a third of our team. Again, I don't want bad contracts, but I also don't want to blow up a team that I think is still very capable of being competitive.

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01-13-2014, 11:15 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Agreed with this. If you are not signing Girardi to his $6m, then he needs to be moved. Same with Callahan's number. Callahan is not a $5m player.
A healthy Callahan is a $5m player. The '10-'11 and '11-'12 Callahan is a $5m player. Especially in a league with a $71m cap and the average player getting $3.25m a year.

Will his body hold up? We likely get a few years out of him as a $5m player. But how many years will we get? 5? 8?

Its likely a moot point. Callahan will want more than $5m. And he'll get it. Somewhere.

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01-13-2014, 11:15 AM
  #739
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It is business and a decision has to be made, ie nothing is set in stone.

When making that decision, there are central aspects that can't be overlooked:

1. The "locker room". You don't notice it when you have it, but when you don't have it...

Let's just acknowledge that it's a tremendous blow to any notion that we are trying to build a home grown loyal group of players if young core players like Cally and G are dumped the first second they want to get paid. We are sending a clear message to the players here. You can argue both ways here, but this is from he PPOV, that's what matters here.

2. We loose two core roster players.

3. What do we get back? B/C-tier prospects and late picks?

4. Is there anything out there on the market to replace these guys with? G, Cally and BR? It's the core of our PP, it's the winger who gets most important shifts here in NY the last years, and it's our No 1 RD.

How do you replace them? What is the plan? Is there a plan in place? Do we just randomly take a step back wards and hope for a B prospect and a late 1st rounder being an upgrade over our top players in the NHL?

5. What kind if timing is it to tear the team apart now? It's an extreme buyers market. Our players seem to have all-time low value due to our bad start.

Is it good asset management to tear the team apart?

In the end, I am just skeptical of tearing the team apart now. I just don't think the alternative to not tearing the team apart is attractive at all, it's just half-assed.

I'd deal Cally or G if we could get a piece coming back that we can expect to really count. Not less. I'd also probably let one of them walk rather than taking some crap from Boston or Anaheim, from a business point of view. I just think the message sent to the team is more valuable than crap assets.

BR is a real tough decision to make. Give that Stepan isn't the fastest skater, and BR. Not being an optimal fit on the wing, you can question how he will survive down the road.

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01-13-2014, 11:28 AM
  #740
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Girardi shouldn't get more than five years, and I personally wouldn't go more than four years.
Hey my man, that's probably true, and I hope we get him for 4-5 years. And I'm also willing to overspend a little to keep the years down...Guys like Giraridi don't grow on trees and are the type of players winning teams need to keep. I Know he's had some struggles this season, but, defensively, so has MCD and most D-men in the league. Imagine if the guy was playing 21-23 minutes a night, as he should, rather than often between 25-30. This is a guy that can be a solid top pair defensive d-man for 4-5 years and the Rangers need to try an keep him within reason......CALLY is another story...The injuries are scary and he will be a huge risk to resign, so dealing him makes sense..

But, what I or you or any of us Internet dweebs think mean nothing. The only thing that matters is what the Master Architect thinks...I still can't see him selling...not after the way they have finally seemed to come together with the coach, how they can play on the road, how the Big stars (except The Invisible Man Stepan) finally seem to be elevating their game....Forget dealing for prospects (and does anybody really trust Sather with this? I don't, not one iota).......maybe deals for NHL players..or even possibly selling picks/prospects for help now...Just where I think Sather will go

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01-13-2014, 11:28 AM
  #741
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The fact that both Cally and Girardi could get long-term contracts of a cap hit at around $6 million per year is concerning, even with the cap going up.

Cally can't stay healthy and it appears as if his body is already breaking down. The past few years, he's either missed games or played through an injury, there hasn't been many stretches where's been completely healthy. Additionally, his points per game has trended downwards since 2010-11 and I can't imagine it will improve as he gets older.

I would probably lean towards keeping Girardi over Cally because he's been more durable and the team has a shortage of RHDs, but even so, I find it very hard to spend so much money on a strictly shutdown defenseman with so little offense to his game. He's a 25-point defenseman whose game has benefited from playing with the likes of McDonagh and Staal.

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01-13-2014, 11:38 AM
  #742
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Didnt see this posted, maybe i missed it:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=441068

Quote:
According to Matheson, the Anaheim Ducks are looking to upgrade their defence and would like to add Dan Girardi of the New York Rangers. The Ducks are willing to move Luca Sbisa, Sheldon Souray and their two first round picks in 2014 (their own and the pick they acquired from Ottawa in the Bobby Ryan trade). Girardi is slated to become anunrestricted free-agent at the end of the season.
2 first rounders?!

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...this-n-that-2/

Quote:
There’s lots of conjecture that the Anaheim Ducks, rolling along with the best record in hockey, still want to upgrade their back end and are sniffing around New York Rangers’ shot-blocking unrestricted free agent defenceman Dan Girardi. They’ve got lots of assets to deal — Luca Sbisa, who is coming off wrist surgery soon, maybe Sheldon Souray, who is also out after damaging his wrist, prospects and their own first-round draft pick in June. They won’t deal the draft pick they got from the Ottawa Senators for Bobby Ryan.
Contradicting about the first rounders...


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 01-13-2014 at 11:44 AM.
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01-13-2014, 11:44 AM
  #743
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However, I think it's insane to say that losing either or both of them wouldn't affect the team. It very, very likely would.
Off course it would. However, so too would a long term contract to players that will begin to decline before the contract is halfway done.

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01-13-2014, 11:45 AM
  #744
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Girardi has never been a tough negotiator, whats to say he won't take a lower than expected cap hit for security? Would people give him a 6 year deal for ~5-5.5/year?

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01-13-2014, 11:48 AM
  #745
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Didnt see this posted, maybe i missed it:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=441068

2 first rounders?!

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...this-n-that-2/

Contradicting about the first rounders...
Yeah, clearly the people at TSN didn't read that article properly.

Sbisa or Souray would be a cap dump. I don't care how well Souray played in a shortened season, he's a perpetually injured player whose contract runs through next year. Sbisa might be alright as a "bounce-back" add, he's been good in the past, but right now he has very little value.

So a very late first and a 'prospect' as the key pieces for likely the top UFA defender on the market? Would have to be a pretty damn good prospect for me to even consider it.

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01-13-2014, 11:53 AM
  #746
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Yeah, clearly the people at TSN didn't read that article properly.

Sbisa or Souray would be a cap dump. I don't care how well Souray played in a shortened season, he's a perpetually injured player whose contract runs through next year. Sbisa might be alright as a "bounce-back" add, he's been good in the past, but right now he has very little value.

So a very late first and a 'prospect' as the key pieces for likely the top UFA defender on the market? Would have to be a pretty damn good prospect for me to even consider it.
Yeah, I have the same thoughts.

But if there was any validity to the 2 first rounders... thats something you would have to entertain. This is how rumors get started... someone doesn't read something right.

If Cally is traded and you can get a 1st back for him thats 4 first round picks, lol. Thats a great way to get some great youth on the team, really fast - or - pull an epic draft fail with the Rangers drafting 3 defenseman and a goalie.

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01-13-2014, 11:58 AM
  #747
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I'd still look to trade both. Too much money, they aren't the type of layers who carry a team.

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01-13-2014, 12:00 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Yeah, I have the same thoughts.

But if there was any validity to the 2 first rounders... thats something you would have to entertain. This is how rumors get started... someone doesn't read something right.

If Cally is traded and you can get a 1st back for him thats 4 first round picks, lol. Thats a great way to get some great youth on the team, really fast - or - pull an epic draft fail with the Rangers drafting 3 defenseman and a goalie.
Eh, I'd be much more interested in a prospect who is further along than a 1st rounder. Ottawa is playing well and they've climbed out of the gutter. A a mid first and a late first for Girardi? 3 first rounders would be good if we were rebuilding, but I'd rather see us land one very good prospect than two firsts. If we move Girardi we need to get at least one asset who will be ready contribute by this time next year, if not sooner.

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01-13-2014, 12:01 PM
  #749
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sheldon souray........LOL

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01-13-2014, 12:03 PM
  #750
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Eh, I'd be much more interested in a prospect who is further along than a 1st rounder. Ottawa is playing well and they've climbed out of the gutter. A a mid first and a late first for Girardi? 3 first rounders would be good if we were rebuilding, but I'd rather see us land one very good prospect than two firsts. If we move Girardi we need to get at least one asset who will be ready contribute by this time next year, if not sooner.
I would be ecstatic if the Rangers returned (2) more 1st rounders. They have holes to fill within the organization. Let Gordie and co. get (3) cracks at the 1st round.

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