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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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Old
01-13-2014, 01:09 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I would be ecstatic if the Rangers returned (2) more 1st rounders. They have holes to fill within the organization. Let Gordie and co. get (3) cracks at the 1st round.
Realistically those picks wouldn't turn into NHL talent for at least 3 years. I think I'd be just fine with leaving them off the table if we could land a kid who was able to step into a top-9 forward or top-4 defender role in the next year.

If the deal was Sbisa and the Ducks' first, plus a top-end prospect, I'd be fine with it. But if the prospect was replaced by another first round pick? I'd probably hesitate. You get the best of both worlds with the former, IMO.

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01-13-2014, 01:18 PM
  #752
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Tallon has the go ahead to spend to the cap. Girardi for Gudbranson + conditional 3rd/2nd if Girardi re-signs? Florida has been playing better of late and might be interested in making a playoff push.

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01-13-2014, 01:19 PM
  #753
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I doubt we trade him if the current play continues.

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Old
01-13-2014, 01:21 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I doubt we trade him if the current play continues.
True, but Sather has to do something. Trade him or re-sign him. In typical Sather fashion, he'll probably let it get to July 1st.

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01-13-2014, 01:22 PM
  #755
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i bet Rangers management would take their chances keeping Boyle Girardi and Callahan for season and post season (if they make it),then lose them as unrestricted free agents


when was the last time Sather traded UFA to get something back? 2004 Sather didnt trade Prust and i doubt he trades Boyle, Callahan Girardi.

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01-13-2014, 01:31 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i bet Rangers management would take their chances keeping Boyle Girardi and Callahan for season and post season (if they make it),then lose them as unrestricted free agents


when was the last time Sather traded UFA to get something back? 2004 Sather didnt trade Prust and i doubt he trades Boyle, Callahan Girardi.
When was the last time we had a UFA that actually had value? Prust? Is Prust the only one we've had since 2004? And his UFA year the team was 1st in the league. That team wasn't trading away players for picks.

There is pretty much zero precedence here.

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01-13-2014, 01:41 PM
  #757
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Off course it would. However, so too would a long term contract to players that will begin to decline before the contract is halfway done.
Well, when they'll decline and to what degree is speculative. The fact that the team will no doubt be worse without them isn't. The idea that returned prospects/picks will turn out to be what the team needs to compete and/or will turn out to be the players Cally and Girardi are is also speculative.

There's a lot of question marks on either side. No doubt it's going to be a difficult choice. However, the most important question to me, by far, is what are these guys asking for. If they want reasonable deals, I wouldn't even consider trading either unless there was a massive overpayment coming back.

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01-13-2014, 01:42 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
When was the last time we had a UFA that actually had value? Prust? Is Prust the only one we've had since 2004? And his UFA year the team was 1st in the league. That team wasn't trading away players for picks.

There is pretty much zero precedence here.
Jagr I believe

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01-13-2014, 01:49 PM
  #759
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Off course it would. However, so too would a long term contract to players that will begin to decline before the contract is halfway done.
Many Ds has their best years in their mid-30, not all but many.

How do you know that Girardi will go downhill when he is 33-34 y/o?

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01-13-2014, 01:51 PM
  #760
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Many Ds has their best years in their mid-30, not all but many.

How do you know that Girardi will go downhill when he is 33-34 y/o?
It's not 33 or 34 I worry about. It's 35, 36 and 37.

Look around the league in the past 10 years at defensemen who play his style at his size. Volchenkov. McKee. Philips. Orpik. Regehr. Guys who play physical, block shots and are known as iron men. Their bodies deteriorate faster.

Girardi isn't Lidstrom or Chara or a d-man like that.

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01-13-2014, 01:56 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
When was the last time we had a UFA that actually had value? Prust? Is Prust the only one we've had since 2004? And his UFA year the team was 1st in the league. That team wasn't trading away players for picks.

There is pretty much zero precedence here.
Rangers did get something for Chris Simon who was an UFA at the time and Matt Barnaby although they did not get much for Barnaby


New York Rangers traded Chris Simon and a 7th round selection in 2004 to the Calgary Flames for Jamie McLennan, Blair Betts and Greg Moore.

New York Rangers traded Matthew Barnaby and a 3rd round selection in 2004 to the Colorado Avalanche for Chris McAllister, the rights to David Liffiton and a 2nd round selection in 2004.


that 2ed round pick in 2004 i believe was the pick of Brandon Dubinsky

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01-13-2014, 02:00 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Rangers did get something for Chris Simon who was an UFA at the time and Matt Barnaby although they did not get much for Barnaby


New York Rangers traded Chris Simon and a 7th round selection in 2004 to the Calgary Flames for Jamie McLennan, Blair Betts and Greg Moore.

New York Rangers traded Matthew Barnaby and a 3rd round selection in 2004 to the Colorado Avalanche for Chris McAllister, the rights to David Liffiton and a 2nd round selection in 2004.
They traded most of the team that year. I was thinking post lockout, or since 2004.

I suppose they lost Jagr (as pointed out by Viper) and Nylander for nothing. But I'm not surprised the team didn't trade either of them.

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01-13-2014, 02:29 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Philips. Orpik. Regehr. Guys who play physical, block shots and are known as iron men. Their bodies deteriorate faster..
All the guys in the list above are still playing in the very high majority of their team's games. Phillips is 35 and has missed a handful of games over the past seasons. Looks like two games missed since 2009. 33 y.o. Regehr hasn't played fewer than 75 games since his second season (leaving out the lockout season). Orpik has never played less than 63 games and usually plays in the 70s in full seasons. He's 33 too.

Volchenkov has never been an iron man. Never played a full season. And he's only 31, so he doesn't really fit your set.

There is no solid causal evidence to your theory. Girardi's like Phillips in his sterling attendance record. No reason to think he'll start breaking down - outside of paranoia.


Last edited by CharlieCharleschuk: 01-13-2014 at 03:48 PM.
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01-13-2014, 03:35 PM
  #764
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Jagr and Nylander aren't Girardi and Callahan.

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01-13-2014, 04:36 PM
  #765
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I doubt we trade him if the current play continues.
Agreed. Amazing what winning and playing cohesive hockey can do .

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Old
01-13-2014, 05:04 PM
  #766
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shanahan was left waiting for a call from sather

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Old
01-13-2014, 05:10 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
It's not 33 or 34 I worry about. It's 35, 36 and 37.

Look around the league in the past 10 years at defensemen who play his style at his size. Volchenkov. McKee. Philips. Orpik. Regehr. Guys who play physical, block shots and are known as iron men. Their bodies deteriorate faster.

Girardi isn't Lidstrom or Chara or a d-man like that.
I agree, there is a risk for that he will be a bit broken down when he is 35, not what he is today, but what value do you think Girardi will have when he is 35-37? Y 5, 6 and 7 on a 7 year deal?

If we are speak in numbers relating to he cap we have now, what would he be, a 1.5m player? A 2.5m player? A 3.5m player? 3rd pairing veteran character guy, what is the going rate, 3m? I think Ottawa thinks Philips is on a decent contract.

Everyone knows the cap is 80m in 15/16. If the NHL has zero growth after that, with the PA bumper alone, we will reach a cap just north of 100m four years after that.

5.5m per with a 100m cap is like 3.45m today.

If that is too much, how much too much? A mil too much?

A mill too much for a real character vet in 5 years just don't scare me at all, and this IS the broken down scenario. Many Ds plays there best hockey when they are 35, if Girardi doesn't break down he is a steal in those years.

You know, do you get where I am coming from? I can't understand what people are afraid of. If anything, I am afraid of year 1-3, not 4-7... This is NOT a Drury contract. Drury got 7m per when the cap was 48m or something. There is always a risk with taking a player to a new team. Etc etc etc.

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01-13-2014, 05:30 PM
  #768
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This is Girardi's 8th NHL season. In all that time he's missed 4 games due to injury--2 games each on 2 separate occasions. He gets banged up all the time but he hardly ever is out of the lineup.

Don't know how anyone can say the game is wearing him down. The issue as he gets exponentially older is how will his skating hold up but even at 35 or 36 going the way he has there's a decent chance he'll still be a legit top 4 d-man on a good team if he continues to stay away from major injuries.

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01-13-2014, 05:34 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
This is Girardi's 8th NHL season. In all that time he's missed 4 games due to injury--2 games each on 2 separate occasions. He gets banged up all the time but he hardly ever is out of the lineup.

Don't know how anyone can say the game is wearing him down. The issue as he gets exponentially older is how will his skating hold up but even at 35 or 36 going the way he has there's a decent chance he'll still be a legit top 4 d-man on a good team if he continues to stay away from major injuries.
Well, the concern for age, with me, is usually not so much about wear on the body as it is a natural decline in reaction time. That being said, I'm not all that worried about it with G, because I agree with what you said here. Girardi is a player I can see lasting a long time.

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01-13-2014, 08:49 PM
  #770
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The only problem with signing Callahan is his durability over the length of the contract. Otherwise he's the freaking Captain and you do what you need to to keep him.
Give him 5 years, and no more than 5.5 million and no one should complain.

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At this point, I'd say he's quite valuable for his on-ice play. He's not Drury, yet... but who knows in two or three years how he'll hold up. He seems to be increasingly out of the lineup. Yeah, I agree that a huge contract over a long period with a NMC would be a bad bad idea with a guy showing this kind of wear.
Drury had a knee disease or something like that. Cally is still in his prime, and his injuries could be less of an issue playing under AV.

Remember, most of Cally's injuries was blocking shots, not Concussions which are very scary injuries.

AV is not a preacher of blocking every shot coming towards you.

Watching Cally this season, he is making more plays and creating more chances under AV.

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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Agreed with this. If you are not signing Girardi to his $6m, then he needs to be moved. Same with Callahan's number. Callahan is not a $5m player.
So is Clarkson, Zajac, Brown, and Clowe 5 million dollar players? He should get something between say Clowe and Brown which is hey guess what 5.5 million.

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Girardi and Callahan need to be resigned, period. Richards is getting bought out this offseason and the cap is going up. We can afford it. However, if either of them are asking for completely ridiculous contracts they need to be moved. I'd like to think at least Callahan would take a slight discount to stay captain of NYR. Girardi I could see bolting
This!

Cally even with his injuries is on a pace for around 50 points in a full season. Also Stepan 7 goals in 47 games, Cally 8 Goals in 30 games, need i say more?

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01-13-2014, 08:56 PM
  #771
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Keep Cally, get some good assets for G.

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01-13-2014, 09:08 PM
  #772
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Keep Cally, get some good assets for G.
I do the opposite. Righty defensemen are our weakest position right now. Girardi is arguably out most important player currently. He also won't get as much as Callahan.

Callahan is redundant, assuming Zuccarello continues this level of play. And he'll be asking for way too much.

Sign Girardi for less than $6, trade Callahan.

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01-13-2014, 09:20 PM
  #773
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I do the opposite. Righty defensemen are our weakest position right now. Girardi is arguably out most important player currently. He also won't get as much as Callahan.

Callahan is redundant, assuming Zuccarello continues this level of play. And he'll be asking for way too much.

Sign Girardi for less than $6, trade Callahan.
Bingo.
And sign a top center and winger in the offseason and take it from there.

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01-13-2014, 09:25 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by SKjEi o2 View Post
I do the opposite. Righty defensemen are our weakest position right now. Girardi is arguably out most important player currently. He also won't get as much as Callahan.

Callahan is redundant, assuming Zuccarello continues this level of play. And he'll be asking for way too much.

Sign Girardi for less than $6, trade Callahan.
You are putting all your assumption on one season of play, look at Stepan now who is the last person now not to have figured out AV's system. How bad is Step this year? He has literally scored a goal in 5 games this season out of 47.

Getting back to Cally he has had 3 seasons prior of consistent scoring. He is also getting his PPG average up again this season to a good level.

I would rather sign Cally to around 5 million a year and 5 years, not crazy money but at least they know what a Cally on his game can do.

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01-13-2014, 09:26 PM
  #775
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Bingo.
And sign a top center and winger in the offseason and take it from there.
Nobody good enough is available.

Girardi is overrated. He's a very good defenseman but he's not what he was in the first half of 2011-2012. He has a big reputation around the league, you can get impact talent by trading him.

Cally, due to injuries, wouldn't get as much on the trade market.

A deal with G as the centerpiece can land you a very good top 6 center.

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