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Time To Right a Fundamental Issue That Has Been Present Since Nov.19 2011

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Old
01-13-2014, 03:26 PM
  #1
hckyplayer8
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Time To Right a Fundamental Issue That Has Been Present Since Nov.19 2011

Its time to admit we will not be contend for the cup till we get a top notch, franchise worthy player that can take control of any game; day in and day out.

We lost our most recent franchise player with the loss of Chris Pronger. Pronger literally meant that much to this organization.

Claude Giroux is a spectacular player. He is easily the most skilled player and complete player on this team. That said, he hasn't shown the ability to consistently take over a game when needed.

I'm not saying remove the C from Roo, I'm saying we are and have been missing a pivotal piece that pulls the team together. It becomes blatantly obvious when once again nobody from the coach to Claude could calm the forecheck that is consistently used against this team.

Thus it makes sense to seek a #1 D as our franchise player. Somebody that can control the flow of the game from our zone forward.

The most recent serious attempt to acquire such a piece was the OS of Shea Weber. I give props to Homer for having the balls to try such a move, however he did not succeed in finding such a player. I'd give Homer till the post season to make a major trade to find the player this team needs. If not its time to get off the Homer train. He has had his chance.

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01-13-2014, 03:30 PM
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There just aren't enough of that type of Dman floating around the league. Every team who has one wants to keep him, and every team without one wants to get one. The talent level at D is at a low point not seen since perhaps the 70s.

The price would be astronomical. The team would basically need to go into a second running rebuild to replace what is given up.

This is how you currently find those players without gutting your team:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Entry_Draft

Or, you have to find someone young who'll become one of those guys, trade for them before they hit that level, and develop them yourself...while hoping they don't fall short.

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01-13-2014, 03:32 PM
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so this is a **** on homer thread in disguise?

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01-13-2014, 03:33 PM
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so this is a **** on homer thread in disguise?
Isn't every thread?

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01-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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Then I am for gutting the team.

Leave Giroux and Mason.
Leaver either Jake or Coots (which to choose is a different convo for a different thread).

Everybody else is expendable.

Build the team around Roo and the player we acquire.

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01-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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Isn't every thread?
touche

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01-13-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Then I am for gutting the team.

Leave Giroux and Mason.
Leaver either Jake or Coots (which to choose is a different convo for a different thread).

Everybody else is expendable.

Build the team around Roo and the player we acquire.
I don't know that Snider has the patience for this, because it would need to be a long term plan and it would require very careful scouting and drafting.


Edit: I leave Couturier. A two way center like him and with his potential is rare, and it's also essentially as much a pre-req for contention as a good #1 C, good #1 D, and good starting goalie.

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01-13-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
so this is a **** on homer thread in disguise?
Incorrect.

I am a huge homer fan. Feel free to browse my post content and you will come across countless posts of me defending him.

This is a; we aren't contenders and I am sick of it thread.

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01-13-2014, 03:39 PM
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I don't know that Snider has the patience for this, because it would need to be a long term plan and it would require very careful scouting and drafting.
Well then we are simply screwed baring Morin is a Pronger reincarnate.

If other teams are smart, every last one will implement the kind of forecheck that NY used last night (and NJ has used in the past) and we will be left with no answers as we simply do not possess the personal to combat such an onslaught.

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01-13-2014, 03:42 PM
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Isn't this old news? I've been operating under this mindset for a while now. Like Beef already pointed out we are only finding a #1 dman through the draft. We just need to hope that one of Ghost, Morin, Hagg, or someone not even drafted yet can be that guy.

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01-13-2014, 03:51 PM
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So gut the team and trade for Ekblad? I'm down.


Last edited by orange is better: 01-13-2014 at 03:56 PM.
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01-13-2014, 03:53 PM
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Unless you have a realistic target in mind this thread is going nowhere. If you say Weber I'm out.

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01-13-2014, 03:55 PM
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It really can't be stated how bad the Pronger injury hurt this team.

I honestly wonder how much different this team would be if we had a 100% Pronger on this team.

Quite unfortunate.

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01-13-2014, 03:59 PM
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The Great Dane is the solution to all the Flyers problems.


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01-13-2014, 03:59 PM
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The saddest part about this thread is coming to realize there are all of two players in this league that can dictate the pace of a game, when there used to be nearly a dozen, and the two the league does have... they're both in Pittsburgh.

#openmouthinsertshotgun

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01-13-2014, 04:01 PM
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The Great Dane is the solution to all the Flyers problems.

If you think the issue is that were not giving up enough goals, then yes you'd be correct...

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01-13-2014, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Then I am for gutting the team.

Leave Giroux and Mason.
Leaver either Jake or Coots (which to choose is a different convo for a different thread).

Everybody else is expendable.

Build the team around Roo and the player we acquire.
Unfortunately, the asking price for a franchise player probably starts with one of the players you listed. You're not going to get a player like OEL or Weber unless you trade a franchise player in return - or a player with franchise potential.

It has to make sense from both sides as well. Not too many teams out there who are looking to trade those kinds of players.

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01-13-2014, 04:09 PM
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Unfortunately, the asking price for a franchise player probably starts with one of the players you listed. You're not going to get a player like OEL or Weber unless you trade a franchise player in return - or a player with franchise potential.

It has to make sense from both sides as well. Not too many teams out there who are looking to trade those kinds of players.
Yeah, the problem with trading a Dman like that is the trading team now needs to find a new dman. That's not much incentive.

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01-13-2014, 04:10 PM
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Weber would naturally be my top choice of players to go after due to a near splitting personality of two previous franchise players of our past, Pronger and to a lesser degree Lindros.

Makes sense as maybe we could deal some players like Kimmo or Harts to them (prior history).

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01-13-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Weber would naturally be my top choice of players to go after due to a near splitting personality of two previous franchise players of our past, Pronger and to a lesser degree Lindros.

Makes sense as maybe we could deal some players like Kimmo or Harts to them (prior history).
If Nashville trades Weber for Kimmo and Hartnell they should just fold the franchise, grind the ice up into sno cones for the going away party, and then raze the arena. It's going to take something very significant on top of them.

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01-13-2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Weber would naturally be my top choice of players to go after due to a near splitting personality of two previous franchise players of our past, Pronger and to a lesser degree Lindros.

Makes sense as maybe we could deal some players like Kimmo or Harts to them (prior history).
More like Hartnell, Timonen, Couturier, Morin and 2 firsts

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01-13-2014, 04:21 PM
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If Nashville trades Weber for Kimmo and Hartnell they should just fold the franchise, grind the ice up into sno cones for the going away party, and then raze the arena. It's going to take something very significant on top of them.
lol

I'm not suggesting a trade of that sort, but I am suggesting one or both could be part of a package deal for Weber.

Jake/Coots + Kimmo + Harts + Read/BSchenn for Weber ?

Get our D, Nash gets Kimmo to fill the gap till Jones starts to mature and also gets some offensive firepower that they need.

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01-13-2014, 04:24 PM
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It's not that a player like Pronger is necessary, especially since we have Giroux, it's that it's the only way to go from where we are now (assuming Mason works out) to contending. There's other ways to build teams. A D like Pronger is the best thing that could help this franchise because this franchise is always competitive yet never good enough to win it all or willing to commit to a true blue rebuild.

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01-13-2014, 04:26 PM
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I am really uncertain about this teams future. I am afraid that we will be caught in mediocrity like the Phillies were for nearly a decade before their recent success.

I love Roo and I think he is a top 10 forward in the NHL (somewhere in that 8-10 range) but I agree we need a top tier defenseman extremely bad. And trading for a franchise defenseman would set us back years. So, I see the draft being the only plausible way to obtain one of these elusive players.

The only player in this draft that I think have the potential to be fantastic NHL defenseman would be Ekblad and maybe Fleury however both should be off the board by the time we pick, and I assume we will pick in the 15-20 area. So, I would be perfectly fine with trading up for Ekblad. I would cost us a lot and it would not necessarily make us better next year, so we would be poise for a mediocre to bad season in 2015.

And with top end talent in 2015 being ridiculous we might as well tank in 2015 if we go after Ekblad. I don't suggest this move because again, it will take us years to be back upon the elite teams in the NHL but it may be worth it.

But, if rebuild is the plan the players I would like to keep are: Giroux, Mason, Couts, B. Schenn(maybe), Morin, Hagg, and Ghost. I would deem the rest as expendable.

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01-13-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
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lol

I'm not suggesting a trade of that sort, but I am suggesting one or both could be part of a package deal for Weber.

Jake/Coots + Kimmo + Harts + Read/BSchenn for Weber ?

Get our D, Nash gets Kimmo to fill the gap till Jones starts to mature and also gets some offensive firepower that they need.
Honestly look at Couturier, BSchenn and two firsts as a starting point. Teams dont just let #1 defenders go. Weber is one of the top players in the league. Its going to take a ransom.

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