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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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Old
01-13-2014, 08:33 PM
  #776
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Unfortunately we're going to be buyers. Sather will add a useless or redundant piece. We'll resign our free agents to mega contracts. Add the obligatory big name free agent who will disappoint as expected. Bank on it.

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01-13-2014, 08:39 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by NYRangers1979 View Post
You are putting all your assumption on one season of play, look at Stepan now who is the last person now not to have figured out AV's system. How bad is Step this year? He has literally scored a goal in 5 games this season out of 47.

Getting back to Cally he has had 3 seasons prior of consistent scoring. He is also getting his PPG average up again this season to a good level.

I would rather sign Cally to around 5 million a year and 5 years, not crazy money but at least they know what a Cally on his game can do.
Stepan is a center, Cally is not. Cally is a good trade chip that can bring back several assets. How are we supposed to improve if we keep all the same guys here? Free agency? We know how that has worked out over the years

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01-13-2014, 08:40 PM
  #778
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The 8 wins in 11 has done nothing but (in his mind) validate the roster and staff decisions he's made.

He sees Kreider and MZA become top scorers at no cost to him. He sees Richards bounce back to lead the team in scoring. He sees Moore anchor the teams best 4th line in years, and a coach who has them owning one of the best power plays in the league.

This is New York. The team is healthy and winning. There is no way he touches this lineup no matter how many UFA he has.

This is a textbook buyer opportunity.

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01-13-2014, 08:47 PM
  #779
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Something I don't see anybody mentioning regarding salaries for C and G in the coming years is that playing for the Rangers means a guy has to bear the burden not only of a higher cost of living but also income taxes levied by the state and the city of NY. Compared to playing in FL, T, or AZ, which have no state income tax, this becomes significant. So taking 5.5per in NY is like what, getting 4.8 in other markets? Do we see Stars, Dogs, Cats or Bolts being interested in 1 or the other? I do, with both. This interest, it has to push up the $ the Rangers have to be able to keep 1 or the other.

I'm up for Girard staying. If McIrath makes it he'll be nearly equally important minute for minute and he'll pretty cheap, relatively. Callahan I have no problem trading.

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01-13-2014, 08:50 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Nightshift View Post
Unfortunately we're going to be buyers. Sather will add a useless or redundant piece. We'll resign our free agents to mega contracts. Add the obligatory big name free agent who will disappoint as expected. Bank on it.
Most likely by a lot, it seems to me. Sather doesn't think longer than the next opportunity to make a splashy announcement.

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01-13-2014, 08:57 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by NYRangers1979 View Post
You are putting all your assumption on one season of play, look at Stepan now who is the last person now not to have figured out AV's system. How bad is Step this year? He has literally scored a goal in 5 games this season out of 47.

Getting back to Cally he has had 3 seasons prior of consistent scoring. He is also getting his PPG average up again this season to a good level.

I would rather sign Cally to around 5 million a year and 5 years, not crazy money but at least they know what a Cally on his game can do.
Callahan will be paid for what he has done not what he will do. Will he continue to score goals at 37 years old? 5 years @ 5 mil is the absolute minimum I see him accepting. He wants a retirement contract.
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Nobody good enough is available.

Girardi is overrated. He's a very good defenseman but he's not what he was in the first half of 2011-2012. He has a big reputation around the league, you can get impact talent by trading him.

Cally, due to injuries, wouldn't get as much on the trade market.

A deal with G as the centerpiece can land you a very good top 6 center.
So what would you do if we traded Girardi? Put Stralman on the 1st pair? What about the 2nd pair? We shouldn't be getting rid of righty dmen we should add another.

I guarantee you Callahan is worth quite a bit to the GMs in this league. Especially a desperate one at the deadline.

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01-13-2014, 09:07 PM
  #782
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If the Rangers continue to be hot--if they're seriously in the playoff picture by the deadline Sather is not going to be dealing Girardi or Callahan and especially for futures. Just not going to happen. It'd be like pulling the plug on a playoff bound team--and no other GM around the league would do it either. And Sather at 71 years old and probably near retirement--about the last thing he wants to do is blow up the team. He only does that if he has no other choice.

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01-13-2014, 09:16 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If the Rangers continue to be hot--if they're seriously in the playoff picture by the deadline Sather is not going to be dealing Girardi or Callahan and especially for futures. Just not going to happen. It'd be like pulling the plug on a playoff bound team--and no other GM around the league would do it either. And Sather at 71 years old and probably near retirement--about the last thing he wants to do is blow up the team. He only does that if he has no other choice.
Sadly this is true. If he isn't here to clean up the mess, why should he care if he ***** on the future.

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01-13-2014, 09:20 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Nightshift View Post
Unfortunately we're going to be buyers. Sather will add a useless or redundant piece. We'll resign our free agents to mega contracts. Add the obligatory big name free agent who will disappoint as expected. Bank on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The 8 wins in 11 has done nothing but (in his mind) validate the roster and staff decisions he's made.

He sees Kreider and MZA become top scorers at no cost to him. He sees Richards bounce back to lead the team in scoring. He sees Moore anchor the teams best 4th line in years, and a coach who has them owning one of the best power plays in the league.

This is New York. The team is healthy and winning. There is no way he touches this lineup no matter how many UFA he has.

This is a textbook buyer opportunity.
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If the Rangers continue to be hot--if they're seriously in the playoff picture by the deadline Sather is not going to be dealing Girardi or Callahan and especially for futures. Just not going to happen. It'd be like pulling the plug on a playoff bound team--and no other GM around the league would do it either. And Sather at 71 years old and probably near retirement--about the last thing he wants to do is blow up the team. He only does that if he has no other choice.
Just because you're right doesn't mean I can't spend hours writing dozens of posts about why he'd be wrong.

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01-13-2014, 09:34 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Just because you're right doesn't mean I can't spend hours writing dozens of posts about why he'd be wrong.
We all know he'd be wrong.

It's the doomsday scenario we're all dreading -- massive career contracts for Girardi and Callahan and the bulk of the cap is tied into six or seven players, or they sign with other teams and the Rangers have nothing to show for it

In my opinion, only a Stanley Cup would justify keeping both and rolling the dice in the offseason. After that, we're looking at 7th and 5th round picks for each of them for negotiating rights then kiss them both goodbye.

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01-14-2014, 01:45 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by NYRangers1979 View Post
Give him 5 years, and no more than 5.5 million and no one should complain.



Drury had a knee disease or something like that. Cally is still in his prime, and his injuries could be less of an issue playing under AV.

Remember, most of Cally's injuries was blocking shots, not Concussions which are very scary injuries.

AV is not a preacher of blocking every shot coming towards you.

Watching Cally this season, he is making more plays and creating more chances under AV.



So is Clarkson, Zajac, Brown, and Clowe 5 million dollar players? He should get something between say Clowe and Brown which is hey guess what 5.5 million.



This!

Cally even with his injuries is on a pace for around 50 points in a full season. Also Stepan 7 goals in 47 games, Cally 8 Goals in 30 games, need i say more?


These are all great points. Thank you.

I'd like to add that if Brown is so important to the Kings, who is to say that Callahan isn't important to the rangers? talk about hypocrites...

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01-14-2014, 02:02 AM
  #787
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Cally is redundant?? Rephrase, he might have looked bit redundant from time to time this season so far. Cally is never redundant, any coach would want him on basically any team (all OG teams?).

Nobody is a answering the question, in 5-7 years, what do you think a 34-36 y/o Cally and 35-37 y/o Girardi will be worth? If we had today's cap, 1m? 2m? 3m? 4m? 5m?

When taking into account the growing cap, it seems like they will be either steals or a tad pricy late on any long contract signed. If we go 7-8 years, instead of 4-5, AAV is definitely coming down. Late in the deals, they would be 3m players. Does that really frighten people?

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01-14-2014, 02:04 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
These are all great points. Thank you.

I'd like to add that if Brown is so important to the Kings, who is to say that Callahan isn't important to the rangers? talk about hypocrites...
Everyone knows that this is Slats MO, he will pay other teams players but never his own. We will let Cally and G walk and then give Drury II 9m.

If Cally was a UFA of another team, we would be all over him...

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01-14-2014, 04:18 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
These are all great points. Thank you.

I'd like to add that if Brown is so important to the Kings, who is to say that Callahan isn't important to the rangers? talk about hypocrites...
Brown won a Cup. That's how you measure success in this league, not by winning ****ing playoff rounds or blocked shots. He's redundant because of the blue collar BS he brings to the table. We need more skill in the lineup.

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01-14-2014, 06:35 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If the Rangers continue to be hot--if they're seriously in the playoff picture by the deadline Sather is not going to be dealing Girardi or Callahan and especially for futures. Just not going to happen. It'd be like pulling the plug on a playoff bound team--and no other GM around the league would do it either. And Sather at 71 years old and probably near retirement--about the last thing he wants to do is blow up the team. He only does that if he has no other choice.
Why hasn't Sather signed either player?

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01-14-2014, 06:40 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
Brown won a Cup. That's how you measure success in this league, not by winning ****ing playoff rounds or blocked shots. He's redundant because of the blue collar BS he brings to the table. We need more skill in the lineup.
edit-

unnecessarily insulting at first.

but you're really wrong.

Know who else won a cup? Brett Lebda. Is he better than Callahan.

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01-14-2014, 07:04 AM
  #792
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Hey my man, that's probably true, and I hope we get him for 4-5 years. And I'm also willing to overspend a little to keep the years down...Guys like Giraridi don't grow on trees and are the type of players winning teams need to keep. I Know he's had some struggles this season, but, defensively, so has MCD and most D-men in the league. Imagine if the guy was playing 21-23 minutes a night, as he should, rather than often between 25-30. This is a guy that can be a solid top pair defensive d-man for 4-5 years and the Rangers need to try an keep him within reason......CALLY is another story...The injuries are scary and he will be a huge risk to resign, so dealing him makes sense..

But, what I or you or any of us Internet dweebs think mean nothing. The only thing that matters is what the Master Architect thinks...I still can't see him selling...not after the way they have finally seemed to come together with the coach, how they can play on the road, how the Big stars (except The Invisible Man Stepan) finally seem to be elevating their game....Forget dealing for prospects (and does anybody really trust Sather with this? I don't, not one iota).......maybe deals for NHL players..or even possibly selling picks/prospects for help now...Just where I think Sather will go
First of all, good to hear from you again. How are doing? Things are okay in my neck of the woods.

Anyway, I'm not convinced the Rangers will be buyers, even with the recent success. I don't the Rangers having the necessary assets to upgrade, and, the aren't glaring holes needing to be filled with a short term solution. The lineup is flawed, but, nonetheless balanced, and each line continues to develop chemistry. Most likely, they'll stand pat. What should be done is if the determination has been made that they are not going to meet Girardi and Callahan are asking for, then each should be dealt for maximum value. I believe that is what Gorton would prefer to do. Sather is the problem here, given the perception that it was his decision to hold onto RIchrads for one more year.

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01-14-2014, 07:09 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Everyone knows that this is Slats MO, he will pay other teams players but never his own. We will let Cally and G walk and then give Drury II 9m.

If Cally was a UFA of another team, we would be all over him...
Yeah, how's that approach worked out the past few years?

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01-14-2014, 07:20 AM
  #794
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Why hasn't Sather signed either player?
I suspect it's because they want too many $ and for longer a term than he wants to give them. He's more than capable IMO of risking losing both for nothing for another kick at the can. If he does there's a good likelihood that he uses the money not spent on either/or both this coming July. He might not get them back but he will replace them with other UFA's. That seems to me a path he would take. He might even hold on to Richards then--which would be a huge mistake but it's not like he hasn't made huge mistakes before.

Anyway the development cupboard has a lot of empty spaces on the shelves. I've mentioned that before I think. No worthwhile goaltending in the pipeline. No legit 1st line forwards (with maybe the exception of Buchnevich) in the pipeline. No power forwards past maybe J.T. Miller and no defenseman capable of racking up points as a first pairing some day. We have all kinds of holes.

Personally I'd prefer to hold onto Girardi if he could be kept at a decent price. I don't see anyone in our organization at all ready to replace his minutes on right side defense but Girardi will do what's best for Girardi and what Girardi wants might not be best for the Rangers. Callahan's been injury prone and more easily replaced IMO but he's also the captain and a major part of the identity of the team even if the team is transitioning from a Tort's team to an AV style team.

The Rangers IMO will run the clock down to the deadline--see what their playoff chances look like and make decisions. Maybe they will sign one or both. Maybe they will trade. Maybe they'll do neither. It's not like that there's any real information about any negotiations between any of the parties.


Last edited by eco's bones: 01-14-2014 at 07:25 AM.
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01-14-2014, 09:19 AM
  #795
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I suspect it's because they want too many $ and for longer a term than he wants to give them. He's more than capable IMO of risking losing both for nothing for another kick at the can. If he does there's a good likelihood that he uses the money not spent on either/or both this coming July. He might not get them back but he will replace them with other UFA's. That seems to me a path he would take. He might even hold on to Richards then--which would be a huge mistake but it's not like he hasn't made huge mistakes before.

Anyway the development cupboard has a lot of empty spaces on the shelves. I've mentioned that before I think. No worthwhile goaltending in the pipeline. No legit 1st line forwards (with maybe the exception of Buchnevich) in the pipeline. No power forwards past maybe J.T. Miller and no defenseman capable of racking up points as a first pairing some day. We have all kinds of holes.

Personally I'd prefer to hold onto Girardi if he could be kept at a decent price. I don't see anyone in our organization at all ready to replace his minutes on right side defense but Girardi will do what's best for Girardi and what Girardi wants might not be best for the Rangers. Callahan's been injury prone and more easily replaced IMO but he's also the captain and a major part of the identity of the team even if the team is transitioning from a Tort's team to an AV style team.

The Rangers IMO will run the clock down to the deadline--see what their playoff chances look like and make decisions. Maybe they will sign one or both. Maybe they will trade. Maybe they'll do neither. It's not like that there's any real information about any negotiations between any of the parties.
There isn't another D in the free agent market better than Girardi. All of them are old guys. Which forward is Sather signing? Is Sather running the team past this season? That's another question. Statsny will get $7M. Vanek will get $8M. Vanek has the same agent as Callahan. Bartlett. Are they really worth those dollars? If the Rangers are going to shell out a MAX contract,just give it to the guy you know or don't give it all. From everything reported which hasn't been much,there is nothing going on with Callahan and Girardi contract talks. Are Thornton or Marleau leaving the Sharks? Both of them will 35. More old guys.

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01-14-2014, 09:41 AM
  #796
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There isn't another D in the free agent market better than Girardi. All of them are old guys. Which forward is Sather signing? Is Sather running the team past this season? That's another question. Statsny will get $7M. Vanek will get $8M. Vanek has the same agent as Callahan. Bartlett. Are they really worth those dollars? If the Rangers are going to shell out a MAX contract,just give it to the guy you know or don't give it all. From everything reported which hasn't been much,there is nothing going on with Callahan and Girardi contract talks. Are Thornton or Marleau leaving the Sharks? Both of them will 35. More old guys.
All good questions. If I were to bet Slats will be running things again next year. One of these days Gorton might just leave for greener pastures. If we cut loose Richards and don't re-sign Cally or Girardi we're going to have a lot of cap space to work with. You don't think Slats isn't going to go on a spending spree? I would be absolutely shocked if we're not close to the cap ceiling next year like we are every year.

UFA forwards to look at next year. I wouldn't even consider anyone past 31 unless one-two year deals--Thomas Vanek--he's 29. Derek Roy-30. Mayson Raymond-28. Paul Stastny-28. Andrew Cogliano-26. The injury prone--Milan Michalek-29. Callahan-28. Mike Santorelli-28. Pouliot again-27. Mikhail Grabovski-29. Matt Moulson-30. Steve Downie-26. Devin Setoguchi-26. Ryan Garbutt-28. David Bolland-27. Brandon Bollig-26. Boyle again-29.

IMO Vanek's going to cost a lot. He's the only legit 1st liner. Moulson, Stastny will cost at least as much as Callahan.

UFA defensemen--injury prone Andrei Markov is 35--very short term if you sign him--he's a legit pwp threat. Same could be said for 37 year old Dan Boyle. Matt Niskanen--26 would be a good pickup--somehow I think he doesn't make it to free agency. Kris Russell-26. Andrew MacDonald-27. Girardi-29. Stralman-27. Mark Fayne-26. Mark Stuart-29 decent bottom pairing guy. Ditto for 31 year old Deryk Engelland.

Good D's will be harder to find than forwards.

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01-14-2014, 10:00 AM
  #797
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All good questions. If I were to bet Slats will be running things again next year. One of these days Gorton might just leave for greener pastures. If we cut loose Richards and don't re-sign Cally or Girardi we're going to have a lot of cap space to work with. You don't think Slats isn't going to go on a spending spree? I would be absolutely shocked if we're not close to the cap ceiling next year like we are every year.

UFA forwards to look at next year. I wouldn't even consider anyone past 31 unless one-two year deals--Thomas Vanek--he's 29. Derek Roy-30. Mayson Raymond-28. Paul Stastny-28. Andrew Cogliano-26. The injury prone--Milan Michalek-29. Callahan-28. Mike Santorelli-28. Pouliot again-27. Mikhail Grabovski-29. Matt Moulson-30. Steve Downie-26. Devin Setoguchi-26. Ryan Garbutt-28. David Bolland-27. Brandon Bollig-26. Boyle again-29.

IMO Vanek's going to cost a lot. He's the only legit 1st liner. Moulson, Stastny will cost at least as much as Callahan.

UFA defensemen--injury prone Andrei Markov is 35--very short term if you sign him--he's a legit pwp threat. Same could be said for 37 year old Dan Boyle. Matt Niskanen--26 would be a good pickup--somehow I think he doesn't make it to free agency. Kris Russell-26. Andrew MacDonald-27. Girardi-29. Stralman-27. Mark Fayne-26. Mark Stuart-29 decent bottom pairing guy. Ditto for 31 year old Deryk Engelland.

Good D's will be harder to find than forwards.
Most of the teams sign their players to long term contracts out of entry level. Those players are off the market for a while. The Hawks will have the space to re-sign Kane and Toews to $12M per. Those guys are up in a year or two. There will be many overpaid players this summer and every summer.

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01-14-2014, 10:10 AM
  #798
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I think they overpay Callahan and trade Girardi.

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01-14-2014, 10:54 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
These are all great points. Thank you.

I'd like to add that if Brown is so important to the Kings, who is to say that Callahan isn't important to the rangers? talk about hypocrites...
Brown is having a down year, but he's bigger and more durable than Callahan. Brown also was instrumental in LA's cup win (20 points in 20 games). Brown has missed 13 games in 9 years.

Callahan has missed 17 games already this year, from 3 different injuries. Do you see him being more healthy in the future? He has 14g and 10a in 59 career playoff games.

If Brown doesn't rebound, do you think LA will regret that contract? So why should we give Cally a big money, long term deal? If Cally stays healthy the rest of the year, he's looking at a total of 35 points. You want to pay 5-6 mil per year for the next 6+ years for that?

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01-14-2014, 10:56 AM
  #800
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Give him 5 years, and no more than 5.5 million and no one should complain.
Except Callahan and his agent.

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