HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Zherdev Available?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2007, 07:33 AM
  #1
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,364
vCash: 500
Zherdev Available?

As per spectorshockey.net

Basically the article is saying Zherdev has fell out of favor with Hitchcock. Nikolai is struggling under his system. The article says the CBJ asking price may be too steep.

My opinion: This guy is around 21 years of age, in fact I think he's younger than that, he is an absolutely phenominal talent. I dont care what it takes, you go get this kid. Not only will it give the Rangers much more skill and scoring, but he gives them more youth in the lineup. Right we have no one in the lineup under 22 years of age. Actually I take that back because we just called up a few young guys, but still those guys are no Zherdev, they dont have sure-fire offensive skill he has. To be honest I'm not overly impressed with who's in the draft this year and we haven't been able to draft top notch fowards the past 5 years even though our 1st rounders are strong they dont possess the potential Zherdev does. I say we go and we do what it takes to get him. Now I'm not saying give up Dubinsky, Korpedo, and Montoya for this guy because I like those guys, they have potential. I would start by offering Montoya because he is still a very hot commodity and then I'd go from there. Maybe even include Prucha. I'd even go far enough to say if it comes to the point where we'd have to send there way Montoya, Prucha, say two more prospects, and a draft pick, we should try and get Fedorov in the deal to completely satisfy our secondary offensive problems on the 2nd line and have real guys to play with Shanny, especially a former teammate.

RGY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 07:38 AM
  #2
Nich
Registered User
 
Nich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wantagh
Country: Croatia
Posts: 6,895
vCash: 500
no on monty. i don't understand, do you guys think we have multiple goalies in our system? do you think holt is the real deal?

i.m.o. he is invaluable to us, as is Staal....

that being said....stop with the madness. i mean does he even play center? do we need another winger????

Nich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 07:46 AM
  #3
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,364
vCash: 500
Do you need multiple goalies? We have Lundqvist who I think has done enough to be considered the real deal and the netminder of the future. I really like Montoya but Lundqvist is here. With CBJ not having strong goaltending in there system even though they have four goalies in the top 20 3 of them are around 13 and down in that top 20. Pascale Leclaire is ranked 2 I believe but he is now 24 and I dont think he'll be considered a prospect much longer plus he hasn't really lived up to his full potential.

And yes Zherdev is a winger, but does that really matter? Do you think what we have right now on the wings on the 2nd line is better than him? I mean yeah Shanny is, but what about the other winger, the player opposite Shanny is constantly changing as is the center position on that line. Zherdev could be playing on the 1st line, so adding him to be on the 2nd line is a huge upgrade. How could you say no to him when he is 21 years old and he has great offensive talent? You'd be crazy not to be willing to give up Montoya for him especially when we have LUNDQVIST. If you want open up the talks with Prucha, either way your gonna have to give up something to get him.

RGY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 07:52 AM
  #4
Wisent
Registered User
 
Wisent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mannheim
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,667
vCash: 500
That deal kind of makes sense for me. The value of Zherdev might not be that high at the moment but that is exactly the reason why Columbus wouldn`t let him go until a good deal came along (what has Columbus got to lose? They could just keep him and wait until a better deal comes along).Dealing Montoya seems good because the Rangers would be trading from a position of strength. Adding Prucha would make that deal hard to say no to.

Wisent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 07:56 AM
  #5
In The Flesh
Registered User
 
In The Flesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,742
vCash: 500
I'd like him on the team, but I want to see Montoya pllay some games first. We could get so much more for him if he can prove himself in the NHL.

In The Flesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 08:19 AM
  #6
Nich
Registered User
 
Nich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wantagh
Country: Croatia
Posts: 6,895
vCash: 500
2 words for the multiple goalie comment - Dan Blackburn

real deal or not for lundqvist is not the question...it is stocking our system.

i rather not trade monty and spend a top 2 round pick on a goalie, instead of a center.....

and prucha should be the other wing...we need a center

Nich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 09:59 AM
  #7
BigE
Registered User
 
BigE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
You don't have to worry about trading Monty because Columbus wouldn't want him in a deal.

When you're evaluating a trade you can't just see it from one side. Sure Monty is viewed as a tradeable asset, but Columbus has no need for him in their system.

LeClaire
Popperle
Mason

They're asking Staal if you want Zherdev.

BigE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 10:08 AM
  #8
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
This has been gone through before

Rangers dont need another winger, they need a Center

Columbus could get more from another team than what the Rangers would offer....he's no way worth Staal

Only time will tell but the promise is Staal will be a #1 #2 D man

Zherdev has some wicked skills but does not shine even on a ****** team like the BJ's

Montoya should likely stay a Ranger UNLESS he's part of a deal that lands Brad Richards, Eris Staal etc

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 10:16 AM
  #9
VisionQuest*
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Zherdev?
Are you ******** me?

The guy held out for a large contract he didnt deserve, and now isnt producing.

He wasn't playing well before Hitchcok. Now he's suddenly on the trade block halfway into his first season on that new deal?

There's no place in the NHL for players that don't play three-zone hockey, especially the whiney prima donna ones.

Pass.

VisionQuest* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 10:31 AM
  #10
The Amity Affliction
Chasing Ghosts
 
The Amity Affliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 9,338
vCash: 500
While you've gotta love his skillset, and you know what he's capable of, this is a guy who after recieving his new deal has sucked, and if you ask me, his value has dropped. He'll still get a nice return, but not as good as a return that Columbus would have gotten for him last year when he was breaking out and was still on an entry level deal.

I think if anything, the guy is sucking because he wants out of Columbus. I can't say I blame him, but I don't see a lot of teams taking a flyer on him considering his lack of production this year combined with the fact that he just got a bigger salary, and he's a one-dimensional player.

The Amity Affliction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 10:31 AM
  #11
Larry Melnyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gloomsville, USA
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
The Rangers don't have any young high skilled forwards in NY or Hartford and precious few in juniors..We have mostly plumbers and grinders, although some have talent/skill....A talent like ZHerdev would be a good addition---depending on the cost....

Larry Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 10:58 AM
  #12
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,835
vCash: 500
.

Dawes or Dubinsky and Sanguinetti as well as a 2nd rounder in the 2007 draft for Zherdev.

For all the talk about needing a 2nd line center, we have forgotten the lack of a legit 2nd or potential 1st line winger in the Org.

The fact is we are lacking any real true legit top six forwards and Zherdev is exactly what we are and have been lacking for years.

I do agree that trading Montoya is not a good idea, but I'd also like to see him in the NHL soon as to make a final determination on that as well.

pld459666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:02 AM
  #13
Larry Melnyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gloomsville, USA
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Dawes or Dubinsky and Sanguinetti as well as a 2nd rounder in the 2007 draft for Zherdev.

For all the talk about needing a 2nd line center, we have forgotten the lack of a legit 2nd or potential 1st line winger in the Org.

The fact is we are lacking any real true legit top six forwards and Zherdev is exactly what we are and have been lacking for years.

I do agree that trading Montoya is not a good idea, but I'd also like to see him in the NHL soon as to make a final determination on that as well.
Same thing I was trying to say above...But, since I think ZHerdev is of the hit or miss variety, that would be way too steep of a price for me to pay...Now, Immo and Pock/Rachunek plus a 2nd, I would do...But that's probably not resonable from the bJs side..

Larry Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:03 AM
  #14
xander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Section A Lynah Rink
Posts: 4,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
This has been gone through before

Rangers dont need another winger, they need a Center
While a center is preferable, what the rangers really need are players with franchise talent, or even first line/first pairing talent, as there are currently none in the system. Zherdev, worts and all, does have that and has demonstrated it numerous times on the pro level. And for all the bad press the kid gets, he really hasn't done anything wrong. Not getting along with Ken Hitchcock doesn't nessisarily make him a malcontent; hitchcock is not the easiest man to get along with or play for. Get him in a new enviroment where he is comfortable and his skills could shine.

He's not a player that I'm prepaired to pay a kings ransom for, but you have to investigate him. I'd be willing to part with prucha, dubinsky and a first (though I am loath to move dubinsky, I think they columbus will ask for him.) For the record, I do think that columbus will be looking for more than that for Zherdev.

xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:14 AM
  #15
kovalev27hf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: nyc
Country: United States
Posts: 433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander View Post
While a center is preferable, what the rangers really need are players with franchise talent, or even first line/first pairing talent, as there are currently none in the system. Zherdev, worts and all, does have that and has demonstrated it numerous times on the pro level. And for all the bad press the kid gets, he really hasn't done anything wrong. Not getting along with Ken Hitchcock doesn't nessisarily make him a malcontent; hitchcock is not the easiest man to get along with or play for. Get him in a new enviroment where he is comfortable and his skills could shine.

He's not a player that I'm prepaired to pay a kings ransom for, but you have to investigate him. I'd be willing to part with prucha, dubinsky and a first (though I am loath to move dubinsky, I think they columbus will ask for him.) For the record, I do think that columbus will be looking for more than that for Zherdev.

wow thats a serious serious overpayment. right now zherdev has a 27 goal year under his belt. prucha has a 30 goal year under his belt. he's only 2 years older. to add dubinsky and a first for, other than hype and that great rookie year, a young talent is insane and if you think columbus would ask for more your wrong thats WAY to much. we could have had pronger for that a proven number one dman.

kovalev27hf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:32 AM
  #16
xander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Section A Lynah Rink
Posts: 4,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalev27hf View Post
wow thats a serious serious overpayment. right now zherdev has a 27 goal year under his belt. prucha has a 30 goal year under his belt. he's only 2 years older. to add dubinsky and a first for, other than hype and that great rookie year, a young talent is insane and if you think columbus would ask for more your wrong thats WAY to much. we could have had pronger for that a proven number one dman.
We could have had Pronger for that? says who? that's a pretty big statement to make without any proof.

Zherdev is a 22 year old with franshise level talent, you have to give to get. Prucha is a talented player surrounded by question marks right now (I'm a Prucha fan, by the way), and
Dubinsky is a 20 year old just breaking into pro hockey with probable second line talent. If you really want to play lowball then you can change the first to a second, but for a guy of Zherdev's talent and age your going to have to pay, end of story.

Nobody deals away young franchise talent unless you make it worth they're while or they absolutely have too. I'm all for trying to make the best possible deal for the rangers, but I think it's very unlikely that you get Nikolai at a bargain basement price.

xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:38 AM
  #17
NYCLV
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
He has been a healthy scratch as of late and does not have a goal in weeks.

NYCLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:43 AM
  #18
VisionQuest*
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Why do people think Zherdev has "Franchise level talent" ?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=70844


he had a nice season for CSKA as a 20 year old. Otherwise, he's been pretty average

His profile from Russian Prospects. Nothing here screams "Franchise Talent."

In fact, it seems like all the crap said about him has come to fruition/ Not physical, doesnt play any defense, etc.

http://www.russianprospects.com/publ...p?player_id=38

VisionQuest* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:49 AM
  #19
xander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Section A Lynah Rink
Posts: 4,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
Why do people think Zherdev has "Franchise level talent" ?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=70844


he had a nice season for CSKA as a 20 year old. Otherwise, he's been pretty average

His profile from Russian Prospects. Nothing here screams "Franchise Talent."

In fact, it seems like all the crap said about him has come to fruition/ Not physical, doesnt play any defense, etc.

http://www.russianprospects.com/publ...p?player_id=38
we think that he has franchise level talent because we've [B]watched[B] him play, as apposed to making a judgement based on a stats sheet.

Nobody said the guy doesn't have worts, he does have defensive issues and he's not the most physical player. But how many of the current elite offensive players in this league would that description have applied too when they where 22? Especially some of the highly skilled europeans (I don't meen to over generalize, because I know that this doesn't apply to all european players, but there is some truth in the statement.)

and speaking of stats, 27 goals and 54 points is quite respectable for a 21 year old playing on a crappy team.

xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 11:59 AM
  #20
VisionQuest*
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander View Post
we think that he has franchise level talent because we've [B]watched[B] him play, as apposed to making a judgement based on a stats sheet.

Nobody said the guy doesn't have worts, he does have defensive issues and he's not the most physical player. But how many of the current elite offensive players in this league would that description have applied to when they where 22. Especially some of the highly skilled europeans (I don't meen to ver generalize, because I know that this doesn't apply to all european players, but there is some truth in the statement.)

and speaking of stats, 27 goals and 54 points is quite respectable for a 21 year old playing on a crappy team.
save it. I watch as much hockey as anyone. I play as much as anyone.
Im not going to get into details, but youre barking up the wrong tree there, champ.

Anyway, back on topic after addressing that stupid ****...
a few pretty breakaways doesnt make franchise talent. I've probably watched somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 complete cbj games in the last two seasons, and I have no reason to think that he possess "Franchise Talent" I mean, you didnt even bother to read his RP scouting report apparently. He is nowhere near the player of the caliber of Max for instance (if were going to lump together Ukranians and Russians like RP does). Not even close. If he really had that amazing sort of talent level, and if Doug Mclean thought 54 points last season was evidence, he wouldn't have had to hold out for that contract, it would have been offered on a pillow. In fact, he probably would have been signed for more dough through 09-10.

I mean, what this team totally needs is another euro-ego, and we should definitely trade a bunch of prospects to get it. Fact is, he got his deal becase Doug Mac's hands were tied, fans couldnt understand why the deal couldnt get done sooner, and because CBJ's farm system is like a blackhole right now.

VisionQuest* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 12:05 PM
  #21
NYCLV
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander View Post
we think that he has franchise level talent because we've [B]watched[B] him play, as apposed to making a judgement based on a stats sheet.

Nobody said the guy doesn't have worts, he does have defensive issues and he's not the most physical player. But how many of the current elite offensive players in this league would that description have applied too when they where 22? Especially some of the highly skilled europeans (I don't meen to over generalize, because I know that this doesn't apply to all european players, but there is some truth in the statement.)

and speaking of stats, 27 goals and 54 points is quite respectable for a 21 year old playing on a crappy team.


I have watched him play a lot this season and he takes more shifts off then he does on. I don;t know where you are getting he has 27 goals this season, but he has seven goals and is a minus 17. He may possess that skill and talent you speak of, but he is sure as hell not using it.

NYCLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 12:11 PM
  #22
NYCLV
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
sorry, you should have been more clear saying LAST season.

NYCLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 12:16 PM
  #23
xander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Section A Lynah Rink
Posts: 4,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
save it. I watch as much hockey as anyone. I play as much as anyone.
Im not going to get into details, but youre barking up the wrong tree there, champ.

Anyway, back on topic after addressing that stupid ****...
a few pretty breakaways doesnt make franchise talent. I've probably watched somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 complete cbj games in the last two seasons, and I have no reason to think that he possess "Franchise Talent" I mean, you didnt even bother to read his RP scouting report apparently. He is nowhere near the player of the caliber of Max for instance (if were going to lump together Ukranians and Russians like RP does). Not even close. If he really had that amazing sort of talent level, and if Doug Mclean thought 54 points last season was evidence, he wouldn't have had to hold out for that contract, it would have been offered on a pillow. In fact, he probably would have been signed for more dough through 09-10.

I mean, what this team totally needs is another euro-ego, and we should definitely trade a bunch of prospects to get it. Fact is, he got his deal becase Doug Mac's hands were tied, fans couldnt understand why the deal couldnt get done sooner, and because CBJ's farm system is like a blackhole right now.
1. If your going to point to a stat sheet and a scoting report as evidence for your opinions then you have to expect that I'm going to wonder if you've actually seen him play. Stats and SR's are secondary sources, if you've watched him play then you should say that upfront and tell me why you think what you think and use stats in conjunction with this. Offering me a third party scouting report doesn't do anything for me, you don't think I've read scouting reports on him before now? And by the way, the scouting report you gave me says: "It is safe to say that Nikolai Zherdev is the biggest individual offensive threat in Russia out of his age group", so I don't understand how that supports your claim that he lacks big time talent.

You say you've watched him play and I believe you, you should have just said that in the first place.

When I watch Nikolai play I see a creative player with supreme hands and some explosivness that is strugling to adapt to his suroundings. He certainly has issues with defensive responcibilities and he's clearly an east-west player. He is not a player that is going to thrive in Hitchcock's system.

If you bring him to a puck possesion team, like the Rangers, then i think he's in a much better enviroment to utilize his skills (and I think it's undeinable that he has tremendous skills.)

I'm not denying that there is some risk attatched to him, but he wouldn't be available (and he we don't really know if he is available) if they're wasn't. He is clearly a player that is both uncomfortable and unsuited to his current team and enviroment. That does not meen that he is not a valuable asset, or a talented hockey player.


Last edited by xander: 01-26-2007 at 12:24 PM.
xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 12:18 PM
  #24
xander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Section A Lynah Rink
Posts: 4,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCLV View Post
sorry, you should have been more clear saying LAST season.
well I did say as a 21 year old, and he is now 22. but i'm sorry, I should have been clearer.

xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2007, 12:22 PM
  #25
NYCLV
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander View Post
well I did say as a 21 year old, and he is now 22. but i'm sorry, I should have been clearer.



haha that is why i checked myself....i said to myself, he is 22 now, the poster meant LAST season hahah sorry again.

NYCLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.