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The truth behind why the Oilers Suck

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Old
01-14-2014, 08:44 AM
  #76
veedubn1
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Maybe they just suck at player development
Yup.

I don't see many 2nd or 3rd round picks from the last 5 years in their lineup today.

You have to be able to draft and develop in a cap world... especially when it's difficult to land free agents and there are very few impact free agents available to begin with.

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01-14-2014, 08:48 AM
  #77
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Experts everywhere!

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01-14-2014, 08:52 AM
  #78
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Experts everywhere!
Yup, there's a theory for everything. They shouldn't take the BPA is my fav.

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01-14-2014, 08:52 AM
  #79
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The Oilers don't suck because of their high selections, they suck because they haven't done anything with their other picks. If you look around the league, the teams who can draft well beyond the top selections are the one's having success. Being a Leafs fan, I know first hand how this feels, another very poor drafting team.

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01-14-2014, 08:56 AM
  #80
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Real reason(s) why the Oilers suck:
Roster sucks
Coach sucks
GM sucks
Owner sucks

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01-14-2014, 09:01 AM
  #81
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The Oilers suck because Kevin Lowe knows more about winning than all of us put together

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01-14-2014, 09:02 AM
  #82
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No.... This is why they suck.

Ference-Petry
N.Schultz-Belov
Marincin-J.Schultz

Dubnyk

And of course...



It's too early to say that the Oilers had bad luck with the #1's, but typical HF to make a final judgment on this about players in their early 20s.
Obviously, they would be better if they had at least one generational talent in the trio but it's management's inability to surround them with a proper supporting cast that is the main reason for the failure.
If you put Hall, RNH and Yakupov in better situations, whose to say that they wouldn't be much better and considered in the upper echelon of #1's.


Last edited by McCupofOil: 01-14-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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01-14-2014, 09:03 AM
  #83
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The original poster is correct in part of his assessment no doubt about it. The Oilers have had 3 of the worst 1st overall guys in a row in a while. That is not to say that the players are bad at all. They are all good to being potentially good they simply are not franchise players, not even Hall.

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01-14-2014, 09:11 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by jgoud View Post
If you simply look at our roster you'll see why we're sucking. And that goes back to management sitting on their ass and watching us **** the bed for the 5th year in a row.

Looking beyond our top 6, we have the absolute worst 3rd and 4th line depth, no grit, energy or even scoring potential. No leadership whatsoever. Smyth should be fulfilling that role, but when he's the worst player on your team (and close to the worst in the league), it's hard to lead by example. And then you look up the middle and we have no size at all. If RNH is going to be our number 1 C, we need a big #2 C who won't get tossed around, and Gagner is the complete opposite of that.

And then you look at our blueline and it's a ****ing train wreck. Schultz hasn't been sheltered at all and he is terrible in his own end, doesn't even need to take responsibilities for when he ****s up because he'll be out there next shift. Petry is the closest D we have to a top 4, and that's the main problem. There simply isn't enough skill or experience on the backend. We have some good young guys coming up, but we need at least a #2 D to show these younger guys the ropes, as well as hold the D together. N. Schultz, Belov, Petry, J.Shultz, Ference and Larsen doesn't cut it. All except for Petry and Ference (Maybe J. Schultz if he was sheltered) would struggle to compete as the 7th D on any other team. So essentially half our D are #7 D and the other half are #4/#5s, which won't get you far in the NHL.

Then in net we have the worst tandem in the NHL. Bryz is playing alright, but you need someone who has potential for growing and someone you can rely on for in the future. I remember only 15 games into the season, when you simulated all the games we played with a goaltending SV% of only .900, we would have won over half the games we lost. Goaltending isn't the only issue as the D in front of it is awful, but it would be a huge help.

So beyond our top 6, the rest of our team is **** and management isn't doing anything about it, which is extremely annoying as a fan. I understand it's hard finding a #2 D and a goalie for a good price, but the problem of depth in our bottom 6 can easily be solved with minute trades and assets going the other way. Looking at the big picture, MacT has been just useless.
Absolutely agree. Your issues are not your top 6. Nor your 1st round drafting (which is amusing given HFs obsession with BPA, always BPA). Draft Murray instead of Yakupov and your bottom 6 and goalie still suck. Trade for a Schneider and your D and your bottom 6 still suck etc etc.

The bottom 6, the D and the goaltending all contribute.

The way I look at it is that Winnipeg are in a similar situation, except they have a decent defence. The goalie sucks (more than Dubnyk even) and the bottom 6 is execrable, but they're one step ahead of you.

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Old
01-14-2014, 09:12 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The original poster is correct in part of his assessment no doubt about it. The Oilers have had 3 of the worst 1st overall guys in a row in a while. That is not to say that the players are bad at all. They are all good to being potentially good they simply are not franchise players, not even Hall.
If these guys aren't franchise players, the bar for franchise player is very high indeed.

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01-14-2014, 09:19 AM
  #86
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It isn't their fault? It's their team, they are the reason they suck. It's always their fault.

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01-14-2014, 09:23 AM
  #87
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When you see Colorados turn around I don't think you can blame the "bad" first overall picks.

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01-14-2014, 09:23 AM
  #88
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Well, if you want to look at it from an Avs perspective (since I know some Oilers have asked why we can compete if they can't).

Trade for a #1 defender.
Trade for a starting netminder.
Draft well in the first (Duchy, Landy, MacK) and in later rounds (ROR, Bigras, Elliott, Barrie)
Sign tier 2 free agents, PAP, Hejda, Giggy.
Add veterans to round out roster, Tangs, Sarich, Talbot

It's not a perfect recipe and we're nowhere near done... but it works well enough once you add in the right coach.

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01-14-2014, 09:29 AM
  #89
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they dont suck because of there first overalls and certainley not because they drafted wingers with them . they suck because they have failed to build a good team around them.

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01-14-2014, 09:30 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The original poster is correct in part of his assessment no doubt about it. The Oilers have had 3 of the worst 1st overall guys in a row in a while. That is not to say that the players are bad at all. They are all good to being potentially good they simply are not franchise players, not even Hall.
I think it's a early early to be writing off our three #1's as not franchise players

they're all under 22 still...

I think it's more of a product a poor team

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01-14-2014, 09:32 AM
  #91
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They chose the WORST 3 years to suck in over a decade.

Quote:
This guy gets it
Quote:
If the Oilers suck next year then they are set for real.


I can't....I really cant.... I really thought that Oilers pernament misery will be ENOUGH to prove that there is no any "tanking", that you can't "suck your way to glory" but now, seems like "tanking" crowd got new excuse- dem just sucked at bad years.... Tired of discussing it, its like beating the dead horse...

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01-14-2014, 09:59 AM
  #92
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They need to take a page out of the Toronto Raptors book. Individual talent means nothing if you don't have the heart and the willingness to work as a team.

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01-14-2014, 10:00 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well, if you want to look at it from an Avs perspective (since I know some Oilers have asked why we can compete if they can't).

Trade for a #1 defender.
Trade for a starting netminder.
Draft well in the first (Duchy, Landy, MacK) and in later rounds (ROR, Bigras, Elliott, Barrie)
Sign tier 2 free agents, PAP, Hejda, Giggy.
Add veterans to round out roster, Tangs, Sarich, Talbot

It's not a perfect recipe and we're nowhere near done... but it works well enough once you add in the right coach.

Wow, when you look at it that way, the Avs have really made some good management decisions. There will always be debate whether EJ and SV are true #1 D and #1 G but atleast your management had the balls to go out and try and get them. Our management is too scared to trade away a 4th round pick.

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01-14-2014, 10:09 AM
  #94
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Check this out for bad luck. The first 5 drafts for Ottawa, they had 3 #1's, a #2, and a #3 overall pick. Those 5 players? Alexei Yashin, Alexandre Daigle, Radek Bonk, Bryan Berard, and Chris Phillips.

If you think Hall/RNH/Yakupov is the problem, try drafting Daigle/Berard/Phillips and also have your most talented player (Yashin) constantly holding out for more money. Yet somehow, Ottawa became a consistently good team for years.

Edmonton's overall drafting has been atrocious for years and they have very little to speak of when it comes to the cornerstone of virtually every winning team: D and goaltending. The only way they will acquire that type of core is if they get trade at least one and likely two of their big 4.

Quebec/Colorado got rid of all 3 of their consecutive #1's to address their needs, so it's not like this is unprecedented.

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Old
01-14-2014, 10:18 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SlapJack View Post
If you think Hall/RNH/Yakupov is the problem, try drafting Daigle/Berard/Phillips and also have your most talented player (Yashin) constantly holding out for more money. Yet somehow, Ottawa became a consistently good team for years.
they aren't the problem...Hall is on pace for 80 points, RNH for 60+ and Yak and has much better lately and could get 20 goals if he gets on a streak
the problem is D and goaltending...always has been

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlapJack View Post
Edmonton's overall drafting has been atrocious for years and they have very little to speak of when it comes to the cornerstone of virtually every winning team: D and goaltending. The only way they will acquire that type of core is if they get trade at least one and likely two of their big 4.
yeah its been awful after #1's and Eberle...a trainwreck that has put this team behind the 8-ball for decades

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01-14-2014, 10:24 AM
  #96
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OP has a slight point - you can argue that the 1st overalls were not as strong as other 1st overalls. However, they are all quality players. My own ideas as to why Edmonton is still having problems:

1) VERY poor drafting outside of their high picks
2) Didn't have enough decent vets to shoulder the load
3) Didn't force their young stars to earn their ice times
4) Don't ever underestimate the culture of losing - it is difficult to get out of.
5) Not enough size in their top 6 - especially for their division.

Their top picks all have enough skill and potential to be turning that franchise around, but they just don't have enough support, and don't play a sound 200ft game that is required in today's NHL - and especially in the west.

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01-14-2014, 10:26 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SlapJack View Post
Edmonton's overall drafting has been atrocious for years and they have very little to speak of when it comes to the cornerstone of virtually every winning team: D and goaltending. The only way they will acquire that type of core is if they get trade at least one and likely two of their big 4.
"The only way." Oh brother.

Quote:
Quebec/Colorado got rid of all 3 of their consecutive #1's to address their needs, so it's not like this is unprecedented.
Point of fact: they had no choice but totrade Lindros and were very fortunate to get a generational talent in return in Forsberg. They lost the Sundin trade hands down. The Nolan trade is the closest thing to what you're suggesting the Oilers do.

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01-14-2014, 10:41 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Yup.

I don't see many 2nd or 3rd round picks from the last 5 years in their lineup today.

You have to be able to draft and develop in a cap world... especially when it's difficult to land free agents and there are very few impact free agents available to begin with.
The development and drafting was complete crap before they bottom out in the NHL, that's really why they got as bad as they did.

Since then however it does show some signs of improvement, it just takes your role players and defencemen years to actually be ready. Starting to see some of those 2nd round and later guys being close to coming in as well. Marincin is getting a taste and he's looking like he belongs, Pitlick was looking close as a bottom 6 guy with some size and grit but had some injury issues, Arcobello looks like he developed pretty nicely.

People I think just don't take into account how bad the entire system had gotten for Edmonton before they actually realized it and decided to fix it. Gotta give the players they drafted time to actually develop before you say they can't develop players. They didn't have a lot of draft picks the year before they drafted first overall if I remember right and the year they got Hall they got Pitlick and Marincin who are likely to be in the NHL full time next season barring a big step backwards from either one so that's a big step in the right direction organizationally.

Tambellini just didn't have an eye for free agents at all and early returns are McTavish can pick better players from the pro ranks, and Tambellini absolutely refused to make a trade that there was a possibility of losing, we don't see that from McTavish either as he traded a young player with potential and a 2nd round pick for Perron and was willing to part with a first round pick for a goalie (but the deal never went through because of the other teams reluctance to trade in conference)

No one wants to hear it but give it time because the sheer size of the rebuilding project they had to take on from the questionable decisions made 10+ years ago and continuing until they smartened up 4 years ago absolutely out the team into a huge hole. They went all in when they got Pronger and then lost him and tried to recapture that by dealing assets away for stars. But the stars never worked out and you have very ltitle organizational depth as a result. Then you throw into the gong show that was their development system and you start to see the real reason the Oilers suck. It is improving, but it's a slow process to start developing players from scratch.

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01-14-2014, 10:51 AM
  #99
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Absolutely agree. Your issues are not your top 6. Nor your 1st round drafting (which is amusing given HFs obsession with BPA, always BPA). Draft Murray instead of Yakupov and your bottom 6 and goalie still suck. Trade for a Schneider and your D and your bottom 6 still suck etc etc.

The bottom 6, the D and the goaltending all contribute.

The way I look at it is that Winnipeg are in a similar situation, except they have a decent defence. The goalie sucks (more than Dubnyk even) and the bottom 6 is execrable, but they're one step ahead of you.
but in another sense Winnipeg is a step behind because they don't have the top talent that Edmonton has. Sure Winnipeg has the better middle part of a roster, but Edmonton has the hardest pieces to acquire, the top end skill. The farm starts pumping out some defencemen and role playing type forwards (which it shows signs it might be doing) and you add a few decent veteran pieces from FA or trades and suddenly Edmonton looks better fairly quickly.

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01-14-2014, 11:04 AM
  #100
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This is probably the biggest thing, there is seemingly no real grand master plan. They have accumulated talent yet where do they fit in the team concept/style/identity? It's tough to put together a puzzle when you don't know what it's supposed to be when it's finished. They were fortunate to have 3 #1 overall picks and picked the BPA so they seem to be trying to retrofit them all into some sort of cohesive unit rather than build a team according to a blueprint. The sword cuts both ways as #1 overall picks are supposed to be franchise changers so who do you build the team around? There's just so much indecision and instability all over the place. The merry go round of coaches has the players tied in knots. It's just one big nebulous situation in Edmonton. Ownership and management aren't going anywhere, that's the harsh reality.

The Oilers have the assets to reconfigure the team very quickly, another #1 overall could be on the way after this season too. It's great to add that talent, but it also muddies the waters even more. Someone needs to step up and be the alpha dog in the organization, hopefully MacT does. Decide what type of team you want, trade whoever you have to and change the makeup of that team. If it means trading Hall/RNH then you do it. If Hall is the player you want to build around, then do it. If it means trading RNH to get a different type of center to match with Hall, then so be it. Trade Eberle, trade Yakupov, trade whoever. Commit to a cause and get all hands on board because it's your way or the highway.
100% correct in my book.

You have to have a masterplan. You have to have a blueprint of what you want to be. Obviously when you have a first overall pick your blueprint gets to mold around the player you choose, but it seems that there is no general plan of what the team wants to be when it grows up.

Here's the thing to me. Every successful team in the NHL has a blueprint. They have players that fit their system. They have certain types of players that they want and fit their identity.

The Penguins identity is being strong down the middle, having hard driving wings and strong-skating defensemen.

The Blackhawks identity is having a skilled top six, a quick transition game from the backend, and a strong utility players in the bottom six.

The Sharks/Ducks/Kings identitys are to have a huge, grinding teams that get results by using their size and cycling ability down low to dominate puck possession.

What is the Oilers blueprint? What is a "prototypical" oilers player? What style of hockey do they even want to play??? I don't know. I'm not sure anybody does, including Oilers management. They are not a team. They don't have an identity everybody is buying into, they're just a bunch of guys wearing the same sweaters.

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