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At the deadline from Rangers

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Old
01-14-2014, 06:58 AM
  #26
GAGLine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
With Kreider, Hagelin, Nash, Carcillo and even Richards seeing duty at the LW, I'm interested to understand why NYR needs a bigger top6 LW?
Because Hagelin isn't big, Nash plays the right side, Carcillo doesn't belong anywhere near the top 6, and Richards is likely to be a compliance buyout this summer. We've got Pouliot, but he isn't consistent enough to be top 6 and isn't overly physical. Neither Pouliot nor Carcillo are likely here beyond this year.

Ideally, we would add a big, physical top 6 LW and play Hagelin on the 3rd line.

Quote:
Is Brassard available from NYR's side for this LW piece?
A lot of Ranger fans will tell you yes, but I don't think so. With Richards likely gone next year, we'll need Brassard. His QO will be more expensive than we'll like, but I can see Slats signing him to a 2 or 3 year deal for about 4 mil per year. We've got more than enough pending UFAs who may have to be replaced. We don't need to saddle ourselves with trying to find a top 6 center as well.

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Old
01-14-2014, 10:20 AM
  #27
ZeroPT
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McBain+Grigorenko+??
For
MDZ+Miller

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Old
01-14-2014, 10:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
McBain+Grigorenko+??
For
MDZ+Miller
Rangers prefer their pieces, thank you.
If the objective is to move Grigo+, something else can be worked out, but not Miller except for overpay. He is our 2C going forward, the only truly speedy match for Kreider in a go go line.

We can talk MDZ/other pieces

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Old
01-14-2014, 10:38 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
Buffy for MDZ and Miller?
Buf a taltent upgrade in a position of need, but it would not take much to blow out a knee as he gets older with extra weight on that frame. He's not a small salary either.

If we are dealing with Wini, do a deal for EKane with Postma, who is surplus for them, as a throw in. That covers PP; then use a decent d for most of rest of the game, if you have to.

Also again, not a fan of moving Miller.

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Old
01-14-2014, 10:52 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Thordic View Post
So you want to go to what, Miller - Brass - Lindberg - Moore down the middle? You gotta be joking. That would probably be the worst center depth in the league.
Not only would it not be the worst, it would be solid good in its own right.

Consider:

At worst, Moore/Lindberg project 4c/3c or vice versa. I personally think Moore has added upside, but let's say 2 of 4 are addressed.

Miller MUST be paired with Kreider. Doesn't matter if that is the first, second or third line! Lets call that 2c. Will there be mistakes? Yes. And they are supposed to be being made this year, not next, but now that AV has finally listened to the board about Pyatt, we need for him to listen to RB about using Miller at C, and to me in particular in pairing him with Kreider.
Once they get past the growing pains, the natural speed will blow away opposition.

That leaves 1C.
Brassard PROVED he could spell Stepan when he was injured last year. Sure, there may be an adjustment he needs to be more AV compliant, but I don't consider that beyond him.
We should do a 1-2 year deal if possible. Tell him he gets every chance to win the 1C job, and if not, we can move him later. But he has enough talent that until an upgrade appears, I don't want him moved. (This is, of course, subordinate to the usual override, that if you get enough talent upgrade, usually you take it and worry about complementary positions later. If you have better talent, partners will always be willing to trade for your surplus down the road. But it must be good talent.)

In addition is the X factor Zuc.
I want a 2 year deal for him also, currently he can be a top 6 W. But I want him to get some 1C minutes also. Zuc offensively does everything Stepan does, as good or better.

So, if we can find a nice upgrade from somewhere, fine. Otherwise, I stand by what I said. It's not remotely as bad as you think. It would actually be good.

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Old
01-14-2014, 11:06 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Not only would it not be the worst, it would be solid good in its own right.

Consider:

At worst, Moore/Lindberg project 4c/3c or vice versa. I personally think Moore has added upside, but let's say 2 of 4 are addressed.

Miller MUST be paired with Kreider. Doesn't matter if that is the first, second or third line! Lets call that 2c. Will there be mistakes? Yes. And they are supposed to be being made this year, not next, but now that AV has finally listened to the board about Pyatt, we need for him to listen to RB about using Miller at C, and to me in particular in pairing him with Kreider.
Once they get past the growing pains, the natural speed will blow away opposition.

That leaves 1C.
Brassard PROVED he could spell Stepan when he was injured last year. Sure, there may be an adjustment he needs to be more AV compliant, but I don't consider that beyond him.
We should do a 1-2 year deal if possible. Tell him he gets every chance to win the 1C job, and if not, we can move him later. But he has enough talent that until an upgrade appears, I don't want him moved. (This is, of course, subordinate to the usual override, that if you get enough talent upgrade, usually you take it and worry about complementary positions later. If you have better talent, partners will always be willing to trade for your surplus down the road. But it must be good talent.)

In addition is the X factor Zuc.
I want a 2 year deal for him also, currently he can be a top 6 W. But I want him to get some 1C minutes also. Zuc offensively does everything Stepan does, as good or better.

So, if we can find a nice upgrade from somewhere, fine. Otherwise, I stand by what I said. It's not remotely as bad as you think. It would actually be good.
That is an AHL roster of centers.

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Old
01-14-2014, 11:13 AM
  #32
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I would leave Pouliot alone. The points he's been putting up on his contract is the type of value we need.

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Old
01-14-2014, 11:15 AM
  #33
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Defenceman capable of playing top 4 minutes on the right side with a cannon from the point.
sounds like 23 yo Michael Stone

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Old
01-14-2014, 11:44 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Rangers prefer their pieces, thank you.
If the objective is to move Grigo+, something else can be worked out, but not Miller except for overpay. He is our 2C going forward, the only truly speedy match for Kreider in a go go line.

We can talk MDZ/other pieces
What's the price on MDZ straight up

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01-14-2014, 12:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
What's the price on MDZ straight up
A decent top 6 forward. Maybe Ennis?

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Old
01-14-2014, 12:21 PM
  #36
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sounds like 23 yo Michael Stone
Would he be available? I thought he was a key piece for the Yotes?

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Old
01-14-2014, 12:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A decent top 6 forward. Maybe Ennis?
You will not get a top 6 forward for MDZ unless its someone that is a cap dump or at the end of his career.

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Old
01-14-2014, 12:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
With Kreider, Hagelin, Nash, Carcillo and even Richards seeing duty at the LW, I'm interested to understand why NYR needs a bigger top6 LW?

If Booth was going good, he would have been good for NYR. Some familiarity with AV as well. I know that you have addressed his injury concerns, so won't say much beyond that about him.

Is Brassard available from NYR's side for this LW piece?
Kreider and Hageling are the teams LW's.

Nash is a RW'er or has been primarily here in NY

The intention is to get a similar player to Kreider so the LW depth is

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
?????? - Brassard - Zuccs
Hagelin - Richards - Callahan

Everyone else would be 10-12

The previously mentioned deal of MDZ and Miller for Big Buff would be an ideal trade as Buff would slot well on the teams 2nd line LW spot while providing a cannon from the point on the PP.

so, the only real size we have up front right now is Kreider and Nash. We need a little more than that.

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Old
01-14-2014, 12:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A decent top 6 forward. Maybe Ennis?
Imo Ennis has more value... I'd like a small addition from the NYR side of things...

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:04 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Would the Rangers GM do something foolish and trade for Heatley?
What is he making?

What's his deal right now? Is he just totally done, or maybe a change of scenery might help? He's only 32..

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01-14-2014, 01:10 PM
  #41
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Would the Rangers GM do something foolish and trade for Heatley?
No.

he wouldn't

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
...but now that AV has finally listened to the board about Pyatt, we need for him to listen to RB about using Miller at C, and to me in particular in pairing him with Kreider...
Lulz that you actually think AV reads much less "listens" to HFBoards regarding roster decisions.

Delusional as ever.

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01-14-2014, 02:31 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Imo Ennis has more value... I'd like a small addition from the NYR side of things...
I could get on board with adding a pick

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Rangers_23 View Post
Lulz that you actually think AV reads much less "listens" to HFBoards regarding roster decisions.

Delusional as ever.
Not at all.
The bottom result is if he has.

I'm sure there is a opinion insisting Miller be at C. Maybe HFB, maybe other.
But it is a topic he has to address.
Only 1 correct answer here: Miller at C w/Kreider
He just has to decide to just go with it.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
That is an AHL roster of centers.
Zuc - already NHL
Brassard - already NHL
Moore - already NHL

Lindberg - ok, AHL but is thought he could play here now if there was a need. It makes more sense for him to get more minutes and not burn his ELC while Richards here. But he can step up and step in is the point.

Miller NHL, despite being jerked around.
Just has to get opportunity w/real minutes fixed at 2C w/Kreider

so as to bold, mostly no

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Old
01-14-2014, 03:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
What's the price on MDZ straight up
If I remember you are Sabres fan even though you are Ottawa based.
Your ? is as to Sabres?
And if yes, what would you like to send over, assuming we can accommodate?

I want to consider your input with an open mind.

straight up is a hard match because, initial thought is, Rangers want 1 of
Ristolainen
2014 Buf 1st

for which Rangers would obviously have to add.

Myers is closer but his contract I'd avoid except in a bigger deal, most likely.

Don't want to rent Ott.
Want to add pieces.

Your inquiry on MDZ is welcomed.
Due to surplus (McDonagh, Staal, Moore and sooner than later Skjei) there is a surplus. However, after finally getting more mins and not being jerked over to off side RD, he is back in good form. Like end of last year spelling Staal. Expect his solid performance past 2 weeks to be the norm going forward if they don't screw w/him again.

MDZ does not require massive overcompensation.
But he is not a throw away, either.

Think value on 20th overall pick, already 2nd pair min, good 1st pair on a lot of clubs.

Tell me what you think is fair.

1 for 1 is hard but I expect we can do something.

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01-14-2014, 06:17 PM
  #47
ZeroPT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If I remember you are Sabres fan even though you are Ottawa based.
Your ? is as to Sabres?
And if yes, what would you like to send over, assuming we can accommodate?

I want to consider your input with an open mind.

straight up is a hard match because, initial thought is, Rangers want 1 of
Ristolainen
2014 Buf 1st


for which Rangers would obviously have to add.

Myers is closer but his contract I'd avoid except in a bigger deal, most likely.

Don't want to rent Ott.
Want to add pieces.

Your inquiry on MDZ is welcomed.
Due to surplus (McDonagh, Staal, Moore and sooner than later Skjei) there is a surplus. However, after finally getting more mins and not being jerked over to off side RD, he is back in good form. Like end of last year spelling Staal. Expect his solid performance past 2 weeks to be the norm going forward if they don't screw w/him again.

MDZ does not require massive overcompensation.
But he is not a throw away, either.

Think value on 20th overall pick, already 2nd pair min, good 1st pair on a lot of clubs.

Tell me what you think is fair.

1 for 1 is hard but I expect we can do something.
NO. These assets are near untouchable for us. We're rebuilding, we'd like to keep our young assets. MDZ's value is that of a #4 PMD, looking at the rangers needs, a top 6 forward would be beneficial:
MDZ+pick
for
Ennis

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Old
01-14-2014, 07:42 PM
  #48
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
NO. These assets are near untouchable for us. We're rebuilding, we'd like to keep our young assets. MDZ's value is that of a #4 PMD, looking at the rangers needs, a top 6 forward would be beneficial:
MDZ+pick
for
Ennis
Thank you. Sorry but also no.
We are doing a controlled rebuild.
We are not splurging on young assets for vet help to make a cup run.
We are improving, and if in po's taking a shot as is with the territory.

So we too want our young assets unless there is trading up for an upgrade.

I disagree w/you on MDZ as only a #4 D.
He is #4 on NYR, but as indicated, he's got McDonagh/Staal/Girardi --- not too shabby --- ahead of him.
Has demonstrated, when Staal and briefly both Staal + McD out he can handle top pair as long as you keep him left.

So he's got more value than that.
We will eventually get 1st +/equivalent for him, assuming we don't deal Staal/Moore first, which, depending upon return, is possible.

As to Ennis, thank you, checked out his stats.
While I do like 1st rounders, Rangers already have a close enough guy in Zuccarello who we may reward with big raise multiyear.
Granted, Ennis has experience of more natural history at C, but I am pushing to move Stepan/+ for full value and go w/Zuc and Brassard. So not feeling it as to that being the match.

COUNTER OFFER:
I get you want to keep your bluest blue chips.
Let's look a tier or 2 below.

Assuming you agree MDZ is worth more as I noted:

Mark Pysyk + Marcus Foligno
for
Del Zotto + medium add

explanation: Pysyk is 1st rounder, 23rd overall 2010, not unlike Del Zotto's 20th overall. Pysyk is RD, which is surplus for you, shortage for me. MDZ commands a bit more cause he is a known commodity, established as certain he will have NHL future. Pysyk looks fine for now, could be < or >, won't know for a bit. Also MDZ can step in IMMEDIATELY. Pysyk, how long will we have to wait?

Foligno is a 4th rounder who seems to be working out, so I bump it up from small to medium add.

-----------

If this can be agreed upon as a base, we might be able to expand it to something like:

Mark Pysyk + Mikhail Grigorenko + Buf 3rd rounder OR Marcus Foligno
for
Del Zotto + John Moore + Rangers 2nd

something like that.....

PS --- that assumes at some point soon even if Grigo not able to go to AHL, he can come to NY or Rangers can put him somewhere.

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Old
01-14-2014, 09:19 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
NO. These assets are near untouchable for us. We're rebuilding, we'd like to keep our young assets. MDZ's value is that of a #4 PMD, looking at the rangers needs, a top 6 forward would be beneficial:
MDZ+pick
for
Ennis
No thanks.

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Old
01-14-2014, 09:59 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Kreider and Hageling are the teams LW's.

Nash is a RW'er or has been primarily here in NY

The intention is to get a similar player to Kreider so the LW depth is

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
?????? - Brassard - Zuccs
Hagelin - Richards - Callahan

Everyone else would be 10-12

The previously mentioned deal of MDZ and Miller for Big Buff would be an ideal trade as Buff would slot well on the teams 2nd line LW spot while providing a cannon from the point on the PP.

so, the only real size we have up front right now is Kreider and Nash. We need a little more than that.

Ok so Richards is absolutely being bought out? It's just odd talking about the team's leading scorer as a guaranteed buyout candidate.

If that's the case, then I agree that Brassard goes nowhere.

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