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Trade Thread Part XII

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:41 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I don't think Montreal would consider him overpaid. He's brought a lot to their team.

I'm not considering Drury a glue guy. They paid him as if he was a sniper. Sather is horrific was free agent signings.

He's paid 1.7 now? Let's say he gets 2.5 for 3 years. The 800,000 extra is going to hurt us get actual talent?

Trading him for a 1st is excellent value. It would be. But then we open up more holes. We paid 2 2nd's to get a guy like Clowe last year for like 15 games. The Devil's overpaid for him. The Habs overpaid for Prust. The Stars overpaid for Avery. The key would be to draft and groom these players and not have to worry about gross overpayments and such but for some reason we have an inability to do so.

Let's say we trade Boyle for a 1st. McIlrath never gets on AV's good side and is never played. Carcillo walks after this year. Lindberg takes Boyle's spot. Let's say we trade Callahan for some offensive prospects.

Our ability as a team to play a grind it out game is nearly completely diminished. We would be relying on Derek Dorsett to be our enforcer, grind it out guy, and glue guy.

Trading Boyle opens up a hole. We don't have a replacement for him in our farm. Maybe, maybe Kantor, but he's such a long shot it's not even a viable consideration.

We'll have to overpay for an aging guy like Clowe one offseason or overpay via trade like we did for Clowe. Either way we're overpaying.
Montreal fans that I know consider Prust overpaid. But they still like him.

2.5 million for a guy that scores 20-25 points a year is not good value. You should be able to get that kind of production from a young kid easily for less than a million.

This team is looking to move away from the grind-it-out style anyways, Boyle is a good player, he just doesn't fit and he will be overpaid.

I was hoping for Thrower + 3rd '14 at the deadline from a team like Montreal. Maybe they can get a 2nd + prospect for him, who knows. I'd take that and run.

He will most likely hit UFA anyways so if the Rangers want him back ,just re-sign him then.

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01-15-2014, 11:43 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
If the Rangers are in a playoff position come the deadline I would like to see these moves (for players currently on the Rangers roster):

- Resign Girardi 4 years $6/year.
- Trade Callahan to Phoenix for Runblad, Samulsson, and a pick (1st if Callahan resigns OR the Yotes make it to the conference finals / 2nd if neither happens).
- Trade Boyle for a 1st or a 2nd and a "B" level prospect.

Hold on to MDZ until the draft unless a solid offer comes before then and keep Stralman for the rest of the season. See if you can trade his rights for a 3rd or 4th at the draft.

If the Rangers are out of it come the deadline, Id like to see:

- Same deals/trades as above.
- Trade Stralman for a first.
- See what's out there for MDZ. Trade him at draft if nothing good at the deadline.
My only gripe here is that if they decide to re-sign Girardi, trade Stralman. Detroit has zero right-shooting d-men. He would be a perfect fit. Try and get a good young forward like Sheahan or a puck moving d-man like Sproul.

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01-15-2014, 11:48 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
All that does is show how similar in production each player has been.
Similar in production? What the hell are you looking at? Stepan has outscored Seto at a younger age. And he's superior to Seto defensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post

Let's also not forget there's this thing called free agency that we can use to replace Stepan
Yea, because free-agency has worked wonders for us. We needed a 1st line center so we signed Richards who's not as good as Stepan. Who should we target next free-agency after we amnesty Richards? Let me guess: An overpaid Stanstny?

It's an asinine proposal that doesn't improve our club, regardless of how many words you're trying to use to justify it. It's just not a good scenario.

I guess some people will never learn. . . .

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01-15-2014, 11:49 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The bolded won't happen. If Girardi would take a 4 year deal, he'd already be signed. He has been underpaid for years. This is his 1 chance to cash in. He and his agent know that he'll get 7 years from another team if not from the Rangers.
I would offer less money per year if he won't take the 4 year deal. 6 years $5.5/year. $33 million over the life of the contract and takes him to 36 years old.

Otherwise gotta look to move him.

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01-15-2014, 11:50 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Similar in production? What the hell are you looking at? Stepan has outscored Seto at a younger age. And he's superior to Seto defensively.



Yea, because free-agency has worked wonders for us. We needed a 1st line center so we signed Richards who's not as good as Stepan. Who should we target next free-agency after we amnesty Richards? Let me guess: An overpaid Stanstny?

It's an asinine proposal that doesn't improve our club, regardless of how many words you're trying to use to justify it. It's just not a good scenario.

I guess some people will never learn. . . .
Sure, except that time Setoguchi scored 30 goals and put up over 60 points. Seto is at .56 PPG over his career and Stepan is at .63. Keep ignoring facts though.

This team needs to use free agency to get talent. Is it a good solution? Not at all. But for a team that refuses to rebuild/tank properly it's the only option unless we trade up at the draft for a top 3 pick. UFAs are a necessary evil for the NYR

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:52 AM
  #106
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Nothing like using small sample size to make an argument!

Seto did this once! He is obviously going to do it multiple times once he is on the rangers!

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:54 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Montreal fans that I know consider Prust overpaid. But they still like him.

2.5 million for a guy that scores 20-25 points a year is not good value. You should be able to get that kind of production from a young kid easily for less than a million.

This team is looking to move away from the grind-it-out style anyways, Boyle is a good player, he just doesn't fit and he will be overpaid.

I was hoping for Thrower + 3rd '14 at the deadline from a team like Montreal. Maybe they can get a 2nd + prospect for him, who knows. I'd take that and run.

He will most likely hit UFA anyways so if the Rangers want him back ,just re-sign him then.
AV tried to play a grind it out game last night.

He seems to employ a hybrid system.

If we traded him I wouldn't want to muddle up our return by getting a prospect and a lower draft pick. Get the highest draft pick you can get. I'm sure you can get a first, even if we have to give up a 4th along with Boyle to solidify that.

The value of a first round pick is greater than in years past. Only 29 picks this year and the crop of draftees is better than in recent memory.

But as I said earlier, don't hold your breath on any of these. Sather isn't known to do this. You can't just change how a person operates because you're more logical. He's at the helm, not any of us. It's unfortunate but we have to deal with that.

Wouldn't be surprised if we resigned Girardi, Callahan, and Boyle to overpayments. Right thing to do? Absolutely not. But I think given Sather's previous moves that this is the most likely to happen.

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:56 AM
  #108
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My ideal scenario:


Trade 1:

To Chicago:
Ryan Callahan

To NYR:
Adam Clendening + Ryan Hartman + CHI 1st


Trade #2:
To MON:
Brian Boyle

To NYR:
Dalton Thrower + 2nd '14


Trade #3:
To DET:
Anton Stralman

To NYR:
Sproul/Sheahan + 3rd '14


Trade #4:
To TOR:
Del Zotto

To NYR:
Gardiner +


Re-sign:
Girardi @ 5.25 million for 6 years

D. Moore @ 1.2 million for 1 year

Carcillo @ 850k for 1 year (depth)

line-up to finish the year

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
MZA-Brassard-Pouliot
Hagelin-Richards-Miller
Carcillo-Moore-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Gardiner
Moore-Falk/Allen

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:57 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I would offer less money per year if he won't take the 4 year deal. 6 years $5.5/year. $33 million over the life of the contract and takes him to 36 years old.

Otherwise gotta look to move him.
Pretty much exactly what I would offer.

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:57 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Sure, except that time Setoguchi scored 30 goals and put up over 60 points. Seto is at .56 PPG over his career and Stepan is at .63. Keep ignoring facts though.

This team needs to use free agency to get talent. Is it a good solution? Not at all. But for a team that refuses to rebuild/tank properly it's the only option unless we trade up at the draft for a top 3 pick. UFAs are a necessary evil for the NYR
How old are they? Does age not play a factor?

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01-15-2014, 11:59 AM
  #111
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Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't trade Stepan for Buff and Seto. If I'm dealing Stepan I'd ask for Enstrom. Pretty sure he plays the right side too.

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:59 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
AV tried to play a grind it out game last night.

He seems to employ a hybrid system.

If we traded him I wouldn't want to muddle up our return by getting a prospect and a lower draft pick. Get the highest draft pick you can get. I'm sure you can get a first, even if we have to give up a 4th along with Boyle to solidify that.

The value of a first round pick is greater than in years past. Only 29 picks this year and the crop of draftees is better than in recent memory.

But as I said earlier, don't hold your breath on any of these. Sather isn't known to do this. You can't just change how a person operates because you're more logical. He's at the helm, not any of us. It's unfortunate but we have to deal with that.

Wouldn't be surprised if we resigned Girardi, Callahan, and Boyle to overpayments. Right thing to do? Absolutely not. But I think given Sather's previous moves that this is the most likely to happen.
AV is employing a hybrid system because he doesn't have the team to play the way he wants them to. Boyle is a good player, just not a 2+ million dollar player, especially with the way this team wants to play.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:00 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
My ideal scenario:


Trade 1:

To Chicago:
Ryan Callahan

To NYR:
Adam Clendening + Ryan Hartman + CHI 1st


Trade #2:
To MON:
Brian Boyle

To NYR:
Dalton Thrower + 2nd '14


Trade #3:
To DET:
Anton Stralman

To NYR:
Sproul/Sheahan + 3rd '14


Trade #4:
To TOR:
Del Zotto

To NYR:
Gardiner +


Re-sign:
Girardi @ 5.25 million for 6 years

D. Moore @ 1.2 million for 1 year

Carcillo @ 850k for 1 year (depth)

line-up to finish the year

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
MZA-Brassard-Pouliot
Hagelin-Richards-Miller
Carcillo-Moore-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Gardiner
Moore-Falk/Allen
More likely scenario:

Rangers trade for Green and Hanzal in an attempt to make a cup run this year.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:02 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
AV is employing a hybrid system because he doesn't have the team to play the way he wants them to. Boyle is a good player, just not a 2+ million dollar player, especially with the way this team wants to play.
Either way, do you think maybe we're beating a dead horse on a moot point? Let's just go by Sather's past moves. Selling just isn't in his M.O. Lateral moves or improvements, even if the team should be in the market of stockpiling young assets.

In addition, he has a tendency to overpay for UFA's, especially ones that are over the helm and not worth the contract he gives them.

Nothing we can do about it.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:04 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Either way, do you think maybe we're beating a dead horse on a moot point? Let's just go by Sather's past moves. Selling just isn't in his M.O. Lateral moves or improvements, even if the team should be in the market of stockpiling young assets.

In addition, he has a tendency to overpay for UFA's, especially ones that are over the helm and not worth the contract he gives them.

Nothing we can do about it.
Probably, but I will continue to say it needs to be done. He hasn't had to make this decision before really with (2) players in their primes who don't carry the team but want a lot of money. Paying for complimentary players, it's the Ranger way.

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01-15-2014, 12:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't trade Stepan for Buff and Seto. If I'm dealing Stepan I'd ask for Enstrom. Pretty sure he plays the right side too.
I freakin' love Enstrom but this team needs Byfuglien more than it needs Enstrom. The big, right handed shot at the point is what we're sorely lacking. Size on the back end doesn't hurt either, and Enstrom is not a big player by any means.

How about this:

Stepan + Girardi + conditional 1st/4th if Girardi resigns

to TB for

Hedman + Purcell + Connolly


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01-15-2014, 12:06 PM
  #117
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You can't blame Girardi for trying to hit free agent lotto. Its his time to get paid. He has two little kids and a wife. After Girardi is done playing hockey,he will still be a young man needing to support them. A 7 year contract takes him to 37 which is where his career will probably end. Girardi will get his best deal in the summer. Rangers management needs to really use their noodle. It can't all be about 71 year old Glen Sather looking towards the next few weeks and leaving the next guy with a mess. That's selfish. There will be a next guy eventually.

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01-15-2014, 12:10 PM
  #118
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Somehow people will blame Girardi for wanting to cash in. There will be a thread calling him greedy, traitor etc.

We gave him a shot to play at the highest level when no other team would and he's more than repaid that favour.

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01-15-2014, 12:10 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You can't blame Girardi for trying to hit free agent lotto. Its his time to get paid. He has two little kids and a wife. After Girardi is playing hockey,he will still be a young man needing to support them. A 7 year contract takes him to 37 which is where his career will probably end. Girardi will get his best deal in the summer. Rangers management needs to really use their noodle. It can't all be about 71 year old Glen Sather looking towards the next few weeks and leaving the next guy with a mess. That's selfish. There will be a next guy eventually.
Link?

From what I've read he plans to be around forever:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/sp...obot-Body.html

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01-15-2014, 12:11 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Probably, but I will continue to say it needs to be done. He hasn't had to make this decision before really with (2) players in their primes who don't carry the team but want a lot of money. Paying for complimentary players, it's the Ranger way.
I'm not too hopeful.

If we're giving away Callahan, I'd ask for a young player back in return. Bobby Ryan got Silfverberg and a 1st.

Stats wise Ryan's range of production is from about 57-71 pts in a given season.

Callahan's range is from 44/45-60/61.

Ryan is younger by a few years but Cally should make up some value by being a leader and captain, model roster player, and defensively more responsible.

Additionally, Anaheim took a family discount to trade him to Ottawa, Ryan's value was worth more than what the Senators got him for.

Callahan should be worth around a Silfverberg and a 1st. That should be what we're aiming for if we're looking to trade C.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:14 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Somehow people will blame Girardi for wanting to cash in. There will be a thread calling him greedy, traitor etc.

We gave him a shot to play at the highest level when no other team would and he's more than repaid that favour.
I've already seen some fans assume that Girardi will give the Rangers a hometown discount. I'm not sure where this expectation comes from, it seems to be wishful thinking on the part of the fans. Some fans got pissed at Lundqvist for not taking a hometown discount when he had absolutely no obligation to do so. I'm sure there will be a similar backlash against Girardi although they have little basis for it.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:21 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
I freakin' love Enstrom but this team needs Byfuglien more than it needs Enstrom. The big, right handed shot at the point is what we're sorely lacking. Size on the back end doesn't hurt either, and Enstrom is not a big player by any means.

How about this:

Stepan + Girardi + conditional 1st/4th if Girardi resigns

to TB for

Hedman + Purcell + Connolly

Though that trade proposal is better...

How about we don't trade Stepan at all and call it a day.

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Old
01-15-2014, 12:24 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'm not too hopeful.

If we're giving away Callahan, I'd ask for a young player back in return. Bobby Ryan got Silfverberg and a 1st.

Stats wise Ryan's range of production is from about 57-71 pts in a given season.

Callahan's range is from 44/45-60/61.

Ryan is younger by a few years but Cally should make up some value by being a leader and captain, model roster player, and defensively more responsible.

Additionally, Anaheim took a family discount to trade him to Ottawa, Ryan's value was worth more than what the Senators got him for.

Callahan should be worth around a Silfverberg and a 1st. That should be what we're aiming for if we're looking to trade C.
Ryan had time left on his contract though. Callahan will be UFA

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01-15-2014, 12:40 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't trade Stepan for Buff and Seto. If I'm dealing Stepan I'd ask for Enstrom. Pretty sure he plays the right side too.
I wouldn't either. How would the center depth look like if we trade Stepan?

I don't know if Enström is good on the right side, all I know is that he has played left to Buff most games I have watched with them in recent years.

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01-15-2014, 12:47 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Reading comprehension on this board is just non-existent. This whole thing somehow became Stepan vs Setoguchi. I wouldn't make that deal straight up, ever. We're going to have to give up something of value to get Byfuglien if anyone actually read the original proposal. I threw in Setoguchi to offset the loss of production from Stepan.
I couldn't care less about how many goals he scored in his good year, or what the original trade was. The point is your ridiculous hypocrisy over people using Stepan's season as evidence to support him, vs calling people out for not using Setoguchi's one good year when you're trying to make a case for him.

Quote:
Let's also not forget there's this thing called free agency that we can use to replace Stepan
Nobody has forgotten that. In fact, most of us actually remember just how badly the majority of our major free agency signings have been once they arrived in NY. Why have a young, cost controlled top-six center when we could have an older, overpaid top-six center instead? #GlenSatherLogic

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