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[EDM/LAK] Oilers acquire Ben Scrivens for 3rd round pick

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Old
01-15-2014, 05:00 PM
  #201
GreatKeith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
Scrivens is a significant downgrade to Dubnyk.

Our problem was not our goalies, it was team defense. We will see soon when Scrivens' GAA is ~4 and SP < .900, just like they are with Dubnyk AND Bryzgalov.

These moves were not lateral, they made us worse.
Do yourself a favour and google "Siedenberg goal oilers". Or maybe legwand goal oilers. Or maybe...

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01-15-2014, 05:00 PM
  #202
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hmm lol, everyone has valid answers as to why we are so hated on the main boards. Whatever. I just hope one day we are unreal good so we can rub it back in their face

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01-15-2014, 05:01 PM
  #203
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I like both of these moves for the Oilers. Bruins fan who hails from the Edmonton area.

Hendricks is a good pickup. Scrivens is decent and will be a steadier backup replacement for Dubnyk.

MacT isn't making the BIG move. But his smaller dealings have mostly been quite positive. Hendricks is a battler. Very solid.

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01-15-2014, 05:03 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Psychoil View Post
on the rumors and trades threads, fans are absolutely ripping the oilers....They are having a field day with this. Didn't know people hated us so much hahahaha, but its all good. Haters = motivators
What reasons exactly do people have to rip on these trades? At worst, Hendricks is the next Belanger (which is almost impossible) and we lose a 3rd round pick (who wouldn't be able to help the team out for another 4-5 years anyway). Its a good gamble to make. Rip on the Oilers all you want for their performance but its hard to criticize MacT for these moves today.

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01-15-2014, 05:03 PM
  #205
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So basically this works out to:

Dubnyk + 3rd

for

Scrivens + Hendricks

Put that way I like it. Initially wasn't a fan of the Dubnyk deal but now I'm happy.

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01-15-2014, 05:03 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
Scrivens is a significant downgrade to Dubnyk.

Our problem was not our goalies, it was team defense. We will see soon when Scrivens' GAA is ~4 and SP < .900, just like they are with Dubnyk AND Bryzgalov.

These moves were not lateral, they made us worse.
This isn't a thing, Dubnyk is what he is, not a consistent NHL goaltender, no one knows what Scrivens is, so the unknown makes him a better option for the Oilers at this point, and it's pretty much impossible to argue.

Want to believe it's a "major downgrade", then you're just being willfully ignorant to what has happen here with Dubnyk over the past 3 years.

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01-15-2014, 05:04 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by djdub View Post
He's not, I don't know how people can say otherwise. Shiny new toy syndrome I guess...

Put Dubnyk on the Kings, see what kind of numbers he puts up.
Have you missed every game Dubnyk has played this year? He's bad, like the worst in the NHL bad.

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01-15-2014, 05:11 PM
  #208
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Love it!

Two moves with little to no risk, and what I deem a significant upgrade to our bottom 6, and a marginal upgrade in net.

Scrivens has played 19 games this season with a .930% and 1.97gaa.

Understandably LA is better defensively, however I have watched some of his games and he was pretty good. Local boy from spruce I believe should be easier to sign him then a ufa in the summer. And leave gags, hemsky, and others to try and upgrade our meat factor in the top 6 and our dmen.

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01-15-2014, 05:11 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdub View Post
He's not, I don't know how people can say otherwise. Shiny new toy syndrome I guess...

Put Dubnyk on the Kings, see what kind of numbers he puts up.
if Scrivens starts letting in soft goals from the redline than i'll agree...until then...

Scrivens>Dubnyk

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01-15-2014, 05:16 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
This isn't a thing, Dubnyk is what he is, not a consistent NHL goaltender, no one knows what Scrivens is, so the unknown makes him a better option for the Oilers at this point, and it's pretty much impossible to argue.

Want to believe it's a "major downgrade", then you're just being willfully ignorant to what has happen here with Dubnyk over the past 3 years.
Doesn't the fact that Scrivens and DD are the same age, yet the former remains such an enigma send out a warning signal? That is to say: if he were any good, surely we'd know it by now.

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01-15-2014, 05:19 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Doesn't the fact that Scrivens and DD are the same age, yet the former remains such an enigma send out a warning signal? That is to say: if he were any good, surely we'd know it by now.
Devan Dubnyk has been with the Oilers organization, professionally, for atleas the last 8 years, from ECHL, to AHL, to the NHL. There's nothing "new" for the organization here, the player is what he is. Scrivens has atleast a bit of potential to be a better or atleast cheaper equal to Dubnyk, and it's hardly a loss to find out of that's the case.

Especially when you consider Dubnyk's "standing" with the Organization (no faith).

Edit: And well true, apparently, that they are the same age, they took drastically different paths to the NHL. I'm not arguing it's not a risk, It's just stupid to suggest this player is a "major downgrade" from the guy who simple wasn't and was Never Going to Be good enough.

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01-15-2014, 05:23 PM
  #212
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hey, it's +7 today
Kelvin?

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01-15-2014, 05:24 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Psychoil View Post
hmm lol, everyone has valid answers as to why we are so hated on the main boards. Whatever. I just hope one day we are unreal good so we can rub it back in their face
And then they'll hate us even more for tanking 4 years in a row.

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01-15-2014, 05:24 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
So basically this works out to:

Dubnyk + 3rd

for

Scrivens + Hendricks

Put that way I like it. Initially wasn't a fan of the Dubnyk deal but now I'm happy.
I thought the same thing, excited to see what scrivens can bring to the table, he can at least be a solid backup if we are able to find something better this offseason. Could become a starter who knows, not getting my hopes up though

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01-15-2014, 05:27 PM
  #215
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Wasn't Roloson a career backup when we acquired him?

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01-15-2014, 05:29 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
Have you missed every game Dubnyk has played this year? He's bad, like the worst in the NHL bad.
That's not an exaggeration at all.

I didn't know this team was 1 Ben Scrivens away from playing GOOD DEFENCE.

MacT has you all drinking the kool-aid. These moves do nothing for us, Scrivens will be left out to dry just as much as Dubnyk and Bryz are and he won't succeed just as the two former haven't.

Yeah Dubnyk has let in more than a few bad goals this year, but under Kreuger he was playing like a Legit starter. Now he's the worst in the league? How does that happen? You guys think it has absolutely nothing to do with our team, this years short comings are all on Dubnyk?

Let me ask you this, how many more games do you think we would have won if we had Scrivens starting over Dubnyk at the start of the season?

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01-15-2014, 05:34 PM
  #217
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Kelvin?
Oh nice, a Canucks fan

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01-15-2014, 05:34 PM
  #218
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That's not the point of acquiring him. They want to see what he's got and if he could be a goalie for us in the future. If he does well he'll be extended and we'll have at least a backup goalie for upcoming seasons. It's basically a try-out. They obviously gave up on Dubnyk, and for good reason: He lets in too many bad goals.
Dubnyk needed a change of scenery, he was fine as a backup this year and could still be an average starter on a better defensive club. I realize Scrivens is being brought in as a try out, but that hardly disproves that he isn't going to succeed here as a starter until the defence is addressed.

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01-15-2014, 05:35 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by stoff View Post
My thoughts:

- don't like the Hendricks trade. Have the oilers not learned from past mistakes of having 3rd/4th liners signed to multi year contracts? Eager, Belanger, Moreau, Pisani, etc. Only one that has worked out so far is Gordon.
The real mistake with the players the Oilers have acquired during the rebuild for the bottom six is the ages of the players themselves. Players that don't have high levels of natural talent or hockey sense are usually retiring and dropping off in performance when they hit their mid-30s - Belanger, Smithson, Smyth, Horcoff, Staios were all solid examples in recent years of that happening to Oiler acquisitions/signings

It's even harder on the physical players, and the drop-off tends to be a lot more dramatic at a much younger age(Moreau, Eager etc) - which is a category that Hendricks falls into.

It's also an example of why Gordon was the first logical signing of the rebuild. He was 29, isn't really a physical guy, and will likely just be tailing off in performance right when his contract runs out.

Quote:
-I've seen alot of people say, "if these guys are so readily available for cheap where are they?" The answer is that good teams draft players to fill the bottom six roles. Look at Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago,etc. That's the biggest failure of the Tambo era. For 5 years of rebuilding he hasn't been able to develop/draft any bottom six forwards. These are players a team should be drafting in the 3rd + rounds. It's terrible that we haven't hit on anything in years.
Actually, this is exactly what Tambo tried to do that has so thoroughly screwed the organization in the present. Grinders and checkers tend to arrive in their mid-twenties, you simply can't take 2nd round and later picks, draft players you project to be grinders at the NHL level, and then expect that they'll develop at the same pace as the first overall picks.

There has to be some acquisitions of competitive players in their mid to late twenties outside of the draft to supplement the talent so the team can enjoy some success while the prospects get a thorough education in the AHL. Tambos mistake was thinking he could rebuild an entire roster through the draft instead of just the high end talent, and his idea of rebuild transitional players was a bunch worn out older players looking for one last payday before everyone in the league recognized that they couldn't contribute anymore.

Of course, in an ideal world the Oilers would have something to show for years of picks before 2010 who could be arriving right now for the team, but the Oilers aren't very good at drafting(or managing, or rebuilding, or fan interaction etc etc)

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01-15-2014, 05:35 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by DJ EarWax View Post
Wasn't Roloson a career backup when we acquired him?
Roloson was an NHL all-star the year before and was in a two goalie tandem system (like TO this year) where he played 45+ games in each of the 3 seasons prior to being traded to Edmonton.

He spent a long time as a backup, yes, but to say he was a backup when we acquired him would be wrong.

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01-15-2014, 05:38 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ EarWax View Post
Wasn't Roloson a career backup when we acquired him?
ya, so was Kippersoff when the flames aquired him.

Bottom line when you look at the what have you done recently stats

Scrivens >>> Dubs.

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01-15-2014, 05:40 PM
  #222
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What's the scouting report on Scrivens?

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01-15-2014, 05:43 PM
  #223
IV XIV XCI
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For those who defend Dubnyk:

He has some good traits and he has some serious flaws. The team and the defence in front of him in Edmonton did not do much to help cover the flaws. He was left exposed often and because of that his flaws were amplified.

I do believe that on a better defensive team, like Nashville, he will prove to be a steady option for them. Similar in the way Conklin seemed like a serviceable goalie when he went from Edmonton to Detroit. The job gets easier for goalies when their D prevent more grade-A scoring chances.

All that said, Dubnyk on his own is still a goalie with too many fundamental holes in his game to be a guy to carry a team. He slides out of position, he doesnt battle hard enough to see through screens, cant handle rebounds or anticipate fast enough on odd man rushes. He gets exposed on both the blocker and catcher side on a regular basis. He had a long leash (giraffe!) here for the better part of a decade. He had no pressure on him (Happy-boozing at 39! and Lolbarbera!) and couldn't help us win. In many games he helped us lose.

This day had to come eventually and he was unlikely going to factor in any BOLD moves so moving him now gives us more time to see what Scrivens is made of before his contract is to be negotiated.

Any Bold moves will come when other teams are more desperate - trade deadline, draft, before free agency etc.

Good G.M.'ing


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01-15-2014, 05:52 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by djdub View Post
That's not an exaggeration at all.

I didn't know this team was 1 Ben Scrivens away from playing GOOD DEFENCE.

MacT has you all drinking the kool-aid. These moves do nothing for us, Scrivens will be left out to dry just as much as Dubnyk and Bryz are and he won't succeed just as the two former haven't.

Yeah Dubnyk has let in more than a few bad goals this year, but under Kreuger he was playing like a Legit starter. Now he's the worst in the league? How does that happen? You guys think it has absolutely nothing to do with our team, this years short comings are all on Dubnyk?

Let me ask you this, how many more games do you think we would have won if we had Scrivens starting over Dubnyk at the start of the season?
This has nothing to do with MacT. It has to do with the overwhelming evidence that Dubnyk is not now nor ever will be a serviceable NHL goaltender.

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01-15-2014, 05:54 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
This has nothing to do with MacT. It has to do with the overwhelming evidence that Dubnyk is not now nor ever will be a serviceable NHL goaltender.
Gotta save that quote for a bump in a year.

Keep believing that this team stinks because of goal tending.

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