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Old
01-27-2007, 03:48 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Thank you for helping prove my point.

So what's that about Bouwmeester not being on that level, in the hall?

With that being said, I'm not giving up Montoya unless Bouwmeester or Horton are coming back. We'd package Montoya and some other players for either of the two.
Agreed. Bouwmeester, if he isn't quite a franchise D-man yet, is damn close to elite status. I'd do Montoya and a 2nd for him. Or Montoya and a 3rd for Horton.

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01-27-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Montoya is going to surpass Hank just my gut but he is made for NY. AL will be next Derrick Jeter type
Is that Bam Bam Bigelow?

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01-27-2007, 03:48 PM
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Montoya is going to surpass Hank just my gut but he is made for NY. AL will be next Derrick Jeter type

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01-27-2007, 03:50 PM
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Montoya is going to surpass Hank just my gut but he is made for NY. AL will be next Derrick Jeter type
Bam, Bam! Love the avy.

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01-27-2007, 03:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I SEVERELY doubt that you actually watch the Panthers, because if you did, you'd know that Bouwmeester is on that level. Bouwmeester is one of the top young defenders in the league. Phaneuf is not on Lidstrom's level. Lidstrom is in a class with Niedermayer and Pronger. Those guys are untouchable. Then there's a class that would include guys like Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Visnovsky, etc...

I love Dion Phaneuf, but putting him with Lidstrom is ridiculous.
Visnovsky is not in either class. Phaneuf is a monster player -- the best 21 year old defenseman I've seen in many years. And I didn't mean to discount Jay-Bo -- he is a very good player -- but when you compare him with Phaneuf you are stretching. At some point in the next year or two Phaneuf is going to start wiining Norris Trophy's and he won't be stopping for a while.


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01-27-2007, 04:07 PM
  #31
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Bam, Bam! Love the avy.
Yea he was a good friend and worked a bunch of shows for me.Totally sucks he passed

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01-27-2007, 04:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Ok than ....CLICK....DIAL TONE


Not only is this call done but we're calling Tampa....they need a goalie too and they have too many Elite Centers...which is really what we need
Haha, I love it! Bravo, Bravo.

That's how you do business, my friend.

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Is that Bam Bam Bigelow?
Seriously why in the hell has Bam Bam Bigelow been mentioned twice in the last 3 weeks on here?

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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Visnovsky is not in either class. Phaneuf is a monster player -- the best 21 year old defenseman I've seen in many years. And I didn't mean to discount Jay-Bo -- he is a very good player -- but when you compare him with Phaneuf you are stretching. At some point in the next year or two Phaneuf is going to start wiining Norris Trophy's and he won't be stopping for a while.
Visnovsky is not in either class? Clearly, you don't watch any of these three, and are making an ill-informed. Visnovsky is a SOLID two way defender who is an excellent skater and is not afraid to play physically. While he doesn't match up well against the bigger power forwards, he plays them well, and effectively. He's nearly impossible to beat one on one, and is one of the best power play qb's in the league. Visnovsky was also almost a point per game defender last year on a crappy team. He's damn well close to being an elite defender.

As for Phaneuf, I understand how much you love him, I do as well. But let's be real here. You're saying that I'm "stretching" by comparing Bouwmeester to Phaneuf - not even a small stretch - but... you'll go and compare Phaneuf to Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger??? You're out of your mind. Phaneuf has the potential to do that, as does Bouwmeester. But let's face it... they're not there yet. Bouwmeester has more than lived up to the hype on a mediocre team in Florida.

I love Phaneuf, I agree with you as to where he'll be in a couple of years, but Bouwmeester will be right there with him.

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01-27-2007, 04:11 PM
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Yea he was a good friend and worked a bunch of shows for me.Totally sucks he passed
***???!?! BAM BAM DIED?!?!? WHEN? HOW?

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01-27-2007, 04:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Broadway if your post wasn't in good spirt and i'd kill you

Im guessing you guys would want Frolik, but considering who pathetic our prospect system is right now, i don't think we can afford to give him up.

I'd happily deal McArdle/Stewart though.
Sure.

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01-27-2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Tyutin is a number 2 defenseman, theres no way in hell I would include him AND another prospect AND a 1st rounder on top of Montoya for Jay-Bo.
Agreed. Tyutin is just a notch below Jay-Bo.

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01-27-2007, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Agreed. Tyutin is just a notch below Jay-Bo.
I think he's a little bit more than a notch below Bouwmeester, though Bouwmeester is fantastic so that's no knock on Tyutin. I wouldn't include Toots in a deal for Bouwmeester though, as we get 1 great defenseman and give up one good defenseman. It doesn't solve our problems.

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01-27-2007, 04:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Nah.

If we're trading Montoya, it's as part of a package for a young franchise center/defender.

The only player I'd want from Florida right now is Bouwmeester, and in that case, I'll offer up Montoya, Tyutin, Mid-level Prospect, and 1st.
Dude - what are you like Crazy Eddie? Practically giving it all away? No way. Montoya for Jay-Bo - straight up. If the rats don't want it, let them languish in mediocreville, which is where they've been for just about every year except 1 or 2.

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01-27-2007, 04:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Um yeah he is.

Go invest in center ice before making an ill-sighted statement like that.

Crack definitely is wack, you're right, so practice what you preach, and layoff the rocks.
i already have center ice, have had it for 3 years

i've known about jbo since he was in juniors and even have his junior jersey, so please, save me the know-it-all bull **** because unlike probably most others on this board that read your post and go "hmm" i know you are full of it, just as you are in 90% of your posts

you always act like you are some sort of big time sports guy, get real, you are a college kid like most of us, that hasn't experienced anything beyond center ice and hockey future and in 5 years will more than likely be not much more than that.

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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Thank you for helping prove my point.

So what's that about Bouwmeester not being on that level, in the hall?

With that being said, I'm not giving up Montoya unless Bouwmeester or Horton are coming back. We'd package Montoya and some other players for either of the two.
you are quoting a panther's fan, what do you expect him to say?.. genious

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01-27-2007, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Dude - what are you like Crazy Eddie? Practically giving it all away? No way. Montoya for Jay-Bo - straight up. If the rats don't want it, let them languish in mediocreville, which is where they've been for just about every year except 1 or 2.
I'm sure they're jealous of all the success we've had in the past decade .

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01-27-2007, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I SEVERELY doubt that you actually watch the Panthers, because if you did, you'd know that Bouwmeester is on that level. Bouwmeester is one of the top young defenders in the league. Phaneuf is not on Lidstrom's level. Lidstrom is in a class with Niedermayer and Pronger. Those guys are untouchable. Then there's a class that would include guys like Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Visnovsky, etc...

I love Dion Phaneuf, but putting him with Lidstrom is ridiculous.
you are a total clown, you assume people don't know anything because their opinion differs, mr. wannabeGM.. that's definitely a position you will never have



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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Dude - what are you like Crazy Eddie? Practically giving it all away? No way. Montoya for Jay-Bo - straight up. If the rats don't want it, let them languish in mediocreville, which is where they've been for just about every year except 1 or 2.
don't argue with him.. he is mr. sather's successer

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01-27-2007, 04:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Bouwmeester is untouchable, as is Horton. Bouwmeester is a franchise D, and Horton is a PPG powerforward of the future. Montoya is not going to land you those guys. I'd deal Weiss, a very good 2nd line center of the future with leadership deals. Olesz, i don't think i'd deal. He is gonna be sick.

Van Ryn and Salei are good players, not "crap". I have no idea of your needs, but they would certaintly help you on the backend.

Stewart sucks i agree, but McArdle is a nice prospect. Frolik IMO shouldn't be dealt, but alot of other Panthers posters would deal him for Montoya.
I am a transplanted Ranger fan who has lived in South Florida since '91. Sorry, but Weiss is no #2 center. #3 at best. Weiss reminds of another turd the Rangers drafted who they believed was their #2 center of the future - Jamie Lundmark. Yes - Weiss is better, but he's soft, does not score enough, and does not make the players around him better. If the Panthers don't want Montoya, they're stupid. He's Cuban - think about the South Florida demographics for a second. You want fans to keep coming to the games? Next town Keenan already killed them by trading Luongo for aching back headhunter Bertuzzi. How much does Eddie B. have left? Auld is not the answer either.

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01-27-2007, 04:34 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Visnovsky is not in either class? Clearly, you don't watch any of these three, and are making an ill-informed. Visnovsky is a SOLID two way defender who is an excellent skater and is not afraid to play physically. While he doesn't match up well against the bigger power forwards, he plays them well, and effectively. He's nearly impossible to beat one on one, and is one of the best power play qb's in the league. Visnovsky was also almost a point per game defender last year on a crappy team. He's damn well close to being an elite defender.

As for Phaneuf, I understand how much you love him, I do as well. But let's be real here. You're saying that I'm "stretching" by comparing Bouwmeester to Phaneuf - not even a small stretch - but... you'll go and compare Phaneuf to Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger??? You're out of your mind. Phaneuf has the potential to do that, as does Bouwmeester. But let's face it... they're not there yet. Bouwmeester has more than lived up to the hype on a mediocre team in Florida.

I love Phaneuf, I agree with you as to where he'll be in a couple of years, but Bouwmeester will be right there with him.
Well we are going to have to agree to disagree. I had season tickets in LA for 6 years and watch about half of the KIngs games on Center Ice since I moved to Minneapolis so I've seen Visnoivsky play and improve quite a bit through the years. That said, I don't consider him to be one of the Top 7-10 defensemen in the league. I do see Phaneuf all the time -- last night I in MSP, I was sitting next to a former college coach and we agreed that Phaneuf is the closest thing we've seen to a Dennis Potvin type player in many years. And while I like Jay-Bo, I just don't think he is a cornerstone player. He may become one but I'm just not sold.

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01-27-2007, 04:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
i already have center ice, have had it for 3 years

i've known about jbo since he was in juniors and even have his junior jersey, so please, save me the know-it-all bull **** because unlike probably most others on this board that read your post and go "hmm" i know you are full of it, just as you are in 90% of your posts
You have center ice? Then you should know what you're talking about, but you apparently don't. And I'm the one that's full of it? Give me a break.

Good for you, I'm glad you have his junior jersey. You obviously know nothing about him beyond that. You know I'm full of it? If that is the case, why don't you prove it, since you "know that I'm full of it." Come on. You think you're something, why don't you earn your keep.

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you always act like you are some sort of big time sports guy, get real, you are a college kid like most of us, that hasn't experienced anything beyond center ice and hockey future and in 5 years will more than likely be not much more than that.
You think that you're a big shot because you're an intern at MSG??!? HAHA, you're a joke. Trying to tell me where I'll be 5 years... maybe you should worry about where you'll be in 5 years before you attempt to pull a Ms. Cleo on me.

Quote:
you are quoting a panther's fan, what do you expect him to say?.. genious
He obviously watches him more than you or I do, toolshed, and you don't watch him a whole lot, so your argument holds no water.

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you are a total clown, you assume people don't know anything because their opinion differs, mr. wannabeGM.. that's definitely a position you will never have

don't argue with him.. he is mr. sather's successer
You're right, I'll never be a gm, that's about one of the few things you've been right about lately. You should quit while you're ahead.

I love how when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine, you whine, and cry like the baby you are. Someone differs in opinion and you go "Crack is wack." So I then proceed to basically make a fool of you, and you go into defensive mode, and try to predict my future. Good for you, shows how little you know about hockey to have to turn to personal attacks when you can't handle a difference in opinion.

We've gone down this road before, so I should expect this classlessness from you. Not that you had any to begin with.

Go pretend to be something worthwhile someplace else, and take your attitude, your glib remarks, and your faux knowledge of hockey with you.

What a terrible waste of time.

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01-27-2007, 04:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Dude - what are you like Crazy Eddie? Practically giving it all away? No way. Montoya for Jay-Bo - straight up. If the rats don't want it, let them languish in mediocreville, which is where they've been for just about every year except 1 or 2.
Are you kidding?

Bouwmeester is an elite young defender, and will perennially challenge for the Norris, if not win it. Montoya hasn't played a damn game at the NHL level yet, that's one of the most lopsided trades I've ever seen.

While I would love for that to happen, bottom line is, it won't.

I guess I'm Crazy Eddie and you're Cheap John?

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01-27-2007, 05:04 PM
  #45
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i think you florida fans very much have to remmember that when you build a franchise you start with a goalie. without a great goaltender your team will never go anywhere. yes you need the defense and goal scoring but look at every team that won the cup, they had a franchise goalie playing..the panthers have to know that to get a franchise goalie you have to give something of major value in return. The rangers dont need to deal montoya at all, we are in no need of a deal that would send him away. Were basically in the same situation that we were in 92 when we had beezer and richter....sounds similair with montoya and lundqvuist. If we are going to deal montoya we want either a #1 forward/center or a #1 dman, simple as that. so florida fans get off ur high horse, we have the goalie you want and you have the centers or dman we want and as much as youd like to hang on to all of them you have to give up something of equal value to get something of value.

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01-27-2007, 05:36 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
You have center ice? Then you should know what you're talking about, but you apparently don't. And I'm the one that's full of it? Give me a break.

Good for you, I'm glad you have his junior jersey. You obviously know nothing about him beyond that. You know I'm full of it? If that is the case, why don't you prove it, since you "know that I'm full of it." Come on. You think you're something, why don't you earn your keep.



You think that you're a big shot because you're an intern at MSG??!? HAHA, you're a joke. Trying to tell me where I'll be 5 years... maybe you should worry about where you'll be in 5 years before you attempt to pull a Ms. Cleo on me.



He obviously watches him more than you or I do, toolshed, and you don't watch him a whole lot, so your argument holds no water.



You're right, I'll never be a gm, that's about one of the few things you've been right about lately. You should quit while you're ahead.

I love how when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine, you whine, and cry like the baby you are. Someone differs in opinion and you go "Crack is wack." So I then proceed to basically make a fool of you, and you go into defensive mode, and try to predict my future. Good for you, shows how little you know about hockey to have to turn to personal attacks when you can't handle a difference in opinion.

We've gone down this road before, so I should expect this classlessness from you. Not that you had any to begin with.

Go pretend to be something worthwhile someplace else, and take your attitude, your glib remarks, and your faux knowledge of hockey with you.

What a terrible waste of time.
you made no fool of no one, if anything the fool was you. i do love how you completely misconstrude my comments to being something i am where i am actually pointing out how you are .. i don't pretend to be something i am not such as you do, i don't have the audacity to assume things about someone else because i disagree with an opinion, that's you mr. wannabe big shot, oh and i don't have an interest in being that person.. i am already comfortable with my life if you want to get personal about it

i skimmed your post, just goes to show how much of an interest i really have in anything you spew.. so i will continue to laugh at you. what i believe means a whole lot more to me than what you say, something you fail to realize.. reality is a bitc h


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01-27-2007, 05:55 PM
  #47
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Well we are going to have to agree to disagree. I had season tickets in LA for 6 years and watch about half of the KIngs games on Center Ice since I moved to Minneapolis so I've seen Visnoivsky play and improve quite a bit through the years. That said, I don't consider him to be one of the Top 7-10 defensemen in the league. I do see Phaneuf all the time -- last night I in MSP, I was sitting next to a former college coach and we agreed that Phaneuf is the closest thing we've seen to a Dennis Potvin type player in many years. And while I like Jay-Bo, I just don't think he is a cornerstone player. He may become one but I'm just not sold.
I don't know, it's close. I think Vis is right on the cusp of being that elite defender. But how many defenders are there in the league that are better? Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Pronger? Phaneuf I believe is on his level. Bouwmeester would put up just as many points if Florida's offense would ever wake up.

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you made no fool of no one, if anything the fool was you. i do love how you completely misconstrude my comments to being something i am where i am actually pointing out how you are .. i don't pretend to be something i am not such as you do, i don't have the audacity to assume things about someone else because i disagree with an opinion, that's you mr. wannabe big shot, oh and i don't have an interest in being that person.. i am already comfortable with my life if you want to get personal about it
I don't assume things because I disagree with someone's opinion, and I also don't do what you do, and BASH PEOPLE because you can't handle their opinions. That, you do have the audacity to do, and you do it on a regular basis.

If you don't have an interest in being a big shot, then stop trying to be one then.

Quote:
i skimmed your post, just goes to show how much of an interest i really have in anything you have to say.. so i will continue to laugh at you. what i believe means a whole lot more to me than what you say, something you fail to realize.. reality is a bitc h
So if you have no interest in anything that I say, then why did you bother to respond to my post? Doesn't make much sense there, need help getting your foot out of your mouth?

Laugh at me all you want, I'm not the ass end of the joke here, pal.

Joke's on you, you're the one who bashes people for a difference in opinion, and then when you can't take it, you whine and cry like a baby.

Maybe you should just shut your mouth, and keep to yourself.

You're right, reality bites... I'd just hate to be you when you have to warp back to reality.


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01-27-2007, 05:56 PM
  #48
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Um yeah he is.

Go invest in center ice before making an ill-sighted statement like that.

Crack definitely is wack, you're right, so practice what you preach, and layoff the rocks.
I gotta whole hearterdly agree with Hall here.

Bo is nowhere near Phaneuf right now IMO.

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01-27-2007, 06:15 PM
  #49
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I gotta whole hearterdly agree with Hall here.

Bo is nowhere near Phaneuf right now IMO.
I disagree with you, and here's why.

I've watched both closely, and really, what sets the two apart is just style of play. Dion is far more aggressive than Jay-Bo is. Dion is THE BEST open ice hitter the game has seen since Scott Stevens. Bouwmeester doesn't even come close to him terms of that. They both can skate with any forward in the league. They both can body off the most elusive of players. They both match up very well against bigger, more physical forwards. Their offense is on an elite level. They both have HUGE shots. I think Dion jumps into the play a little more, as Bouwmeester is a bit more reserved, from what I've seen. Dion will go wire-to-wire at times, while Bouwmeester doesn't do that all too often. I think their on-ice vision, and their outlet passes are more than comparable.

What it comes down to is Dion being a more high-strung defender, in the sense that he's overly aggressive.

I think Bouwmeester would have the offensive numbers that Phaneuf has if it wasn't for the fact that Florida's offense is mediocre at best. They're the 5th worst in the east in goals scored (143). Plus, Calgary is a far more superior team than Florida, in every facet of the game. If Bouwmeester had half of the defensive help that Phaneuf did, he'd be twice as dangerous.

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01-27-2007, 06:24 PM
  #50
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Horton and Bouwmeester may be franchise players at their positions, but so is Montoya. He's probably the best young goalie outside the NHL, he was 6th overall pick. Wouldn't deal him unless we get a top line center or top 2 defenseman who's young.

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