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Old
01-27-2007, 05:30 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Visnovsky is not in either class. Phaneuf is a monster player -- the best 21 year old defenseman I've seen in many years. And I didn't mean to discount Jay-Bo -- he is a very good player -- but when you compare him with Phaneuf you are stretching. At some point in the next year or two Phaneuf is going to start wiining Norris Trophy's and he won't be stopping for a while.
Phaneuf is a diamond in the rough. He may be the best defenseman to come along in NHL a long time. The future is his. Doubtlessly.

But to compare him today to Lidström or Pronger is just not doing either justice. C´mon, Lidström is probably the past decades best defender anywhere. He has the rings to prove it. And he scored a gamewinning goal in the Olympics as a bonus. Pronger is as good as you get - anywhere actually.

It is like comparing a hot streak baseball hitting rookie to Hank Aaron. Not even close. Yet.

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01-27-2007, 05:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting View Post
Horton and Bouwmeester may be franchise players at their positions, but so is Montoya. He's probably the best young goalie outside the NHL, he was 6th overall pick. Wouldn't deal him unless we get a top line center or top 2 defenseman who's young.
He's not a franchise goaltender yet, hasn't played a game in the NHL.

A future franchise goaltender?

I most definitely agree with you on that, and what we should trade him for if or when we do so.

You have to build from the net out to build a cup winner... I think we should hold onto him for now and let him get some NHL experience, showcasing him before we deal him.

Besides... Henrik's only in his 2nd year, and it's been rocky at times for him. Let's be completely sure that he's the real deal before we move Al. Al is a GREAT fallback option in net.

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01-27-2007, 05:40 PM
  #53
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not for montoya but thinking about florida.. bryan allen is a guy I'd have interest in with the thought he might be valued cheap being an impending UFA and all

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01-27-2007, 05:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I disagree with you, and here's why.

I've watched both closely, and really, what sets the two apart is just style of play. Dion is far more aggressive than Jay-Bo is. Dion is THE BEST open ice hitter the game has seen since Scott Stevens. Bouwmeester doesn't even come close to him terms of that. They both can skate with any forward in the league. They both can body off the most elusive of players. They both match up very well against bigger, more physical forwards. Their offense is on an elite level. They both have HUGE shots. I think Dion jumps into the play a little more, as Bouwmeester is a bit more reserved, from what I've seen. Dion will go wire-to-wire at times, while Bouwmeester doesn't do that all too often. I think their on-ice vision, and their outlet passes are more than comparable.

What it comes down to is Dion being a more high-strung defender, in the sense that he's overly aggressive.

I think Bouwmeester would have the offensive numbers that Phaneuf has if it wasn't for the fact that Florida's offense is mediocre at best. They're the 5th worst in the east in goals scored (143). Plus, Calgary is a far more superior team than Florida, in every facet of the game. If Bouwmeester had half of the defensive help that Phaneuf did, he'd be twice as dangerous.
aww did the big bad nobody get intimidated by Edge, it's cute how you respond to his disagreement with reasons rather than insult.. you can't pull the "i'm a big shot and can't be wrong" routine with someone who's on his level

you are a pretty sad case of an internet persona

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01-27-2007, 05:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
aww did the big bad nobody get intimidated by Edge, it's cute how you respond to his disagreement with reasons rather than insult.. you can't pull the "i'm a big shot and can't be wrong" routine with someone who's on his level

you are a pretty sad case of an internet persona
Why should I?

Edge hasn't attacked me personally like you have, or said some half-ass potshot, like you did, because he couldn't handle my opinion. I'm not the big shot here who responds to every post that I disagree with something along the lines of "crack is wack."

Edge was civil in his disagreement, as I was civil in mine. You on the other hand, need a reality check.

Another thing... you just can't keep that damn foot of your's out of your mouth?

I thought you really didn't care about what I had to say.

Go back to laughing at me by yourself. Do yourself the justice of ceasing the petty crap, because you'll never win by contradicting yourself on a word-to-word basis.

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01-27-2007, 07:05 PM
  #56
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We're all Rangers fans here. Stop the infighting. But go ahead and bash some Debbies or Icelanders fans.

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Old
01-27-2007, 07:10 PM
  #57
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I'd like to trade Montoya for Meuller/Phoenix in some kind of deal.

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01-27-2007, 07:35 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Why should I?

Edge hasn't attacked me personally like you have, or said some half-ass potshot, like you did, because he couldn't handle my opinion. I'm not the big shot here who responds to every post that I disagree with something along the lines of "crack is wack."

Edge was civil in his disagreement, as I was civil in mine. You on the other hand, need a reality check.

Another thing... you just can't keep that damn foot of your's out of your mouth?

I thought you really didn't care about what I had to say.

Go back to laughing at me by yourself. Do yourself the justice of ceasing the petty crap, because you'll never win by contradicting yourself on a word-to-word basis.
obviously i care so much that i put forth such a great effort in replying to every one of your responses

let me add one thing a little off this topic.. you should learn to respond to a statement -in writing- without asking a rhetorical question.. i feel like i am speaking to a complete idiot.. scary to think how you would articulate any of this if it were verbal


Last edited by in the hall: 01-27-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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01-27-2007, 08:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Are you kidding?

Bouwmeester is an elite young defender, and will perennially challenge for the Norris, if not win it. Montoya hasn't played a damn game at the NHL level yet, that's one of the most lopsided trades I've ever seen.

While I would love for that to happen, bottom line is, it won't.

I guess I'm Crazy Eddie and you're Cheap John?
You're probably too young to even know who Crazy Eddie is junior. So go back to your "five towns" and enjoy your "idiot savant" occupation.

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01-27-2007, 08:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
I'd like to trade Montoya for Meuller/Phoenix in some kind of deal.
when can i join that line? i loved that kid last year and i'm still man crushed this year. he's gonna be some pro.

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01-27-2007, 09:24 PM
  #61
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Allen & Olesz for Montoya and Krog (he's hot, gtreat time to trade him), just kidding, scratch Krog, throw in Rachunek instead. They get a cubam-american to help sell tickets, we get a young Czech to continue the bloodline.

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01-27-2007, 09:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
We're all Rangers fans here. Stop the infighting. But go ahead and bash some Debbies or Icelanders fans.


JP, the perpetual voice of reason.

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Old
01-27-2007, 09:57 PM
  #63
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To New York:
Todd Bertuzzi
Jozef Stumpel
Alex Auld
'07 2nd Rounder

To Florida:
Matt Cullen
Kevin Weekes
Al Montoya

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Old
01-27-2007, 10:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by scarface8982 View Post
To New York:
Todd Bertuzzi
Jozef Stumpel
Alex Auld
'07 2nd Rounder

To Florida:
Matt Cullen
Kevin Weekes
Al Montoya
I wouldnt mind getting rid of Cullen and his contract, but Bertuzzi is not worth Montoya imo. He has been on the decline ever since the Moore incident and is soon to be a UFA. Not to mention all of his back problems this year. If we are trading Montoya, one of your young, top nhl players or prospects would have to be coming back the Rangers way (Olesz, Horton, Frolik, etc.)

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Old
01-27-2007, 10:04 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarface8982 View Post
To New York:
Todd Bertuzzi
Jozef Stumpel
Alex Auld
'07 2nd Rounder

To Florida:
Matt Cullen
Kevin Weekes
Al Montoya
Bertuzzi and Stumpel make us better this season and are UFA at season's end. That I like. Auld for Weekes is fine in itself. I'll lose no sleep over trading Cullen. But giving up Montoya is too much. The five other players aren't particularly desirable, but Montya is a stud and worth more to us than 2 rentals and a 2nd.

Points for being creative and not asking us to take back too much salary, but I'm not ready to give up Montoya in the deal.

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Old
01-27-2007, 10:22 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Phaneuf is a diamond in the rough. He may be the best defenseman to come along in NHL a long time. The future is his. Doubtlessly.

But to compare him today to Lidström or Pronger is just not doing either justice. C´mon, Lidström is probably the past decades best defender anywhere. He has the rings to prove it. And he scored a gamewinning goal in the Olympics as a bonus. Pronger is as good as you get - anywhere actually.

It is like comparing a hot streak baseball hitting rookie to Hank Aaron. Not even close. Yet.
You need to stay up late more often and watch how well Phaneuf is playing right now. He has smoothed out his game considerably. Very good skater, handles the puck cleanly and makes a great first pass. And did I mention he hits like a freight train? He is not a diamond in the rough, he is a diamond right now today. I've got to admit I'm a little amazed because I thought his MO would be more Scott Stevens than Dennis Potvin but he just continues to raise his game. I don't know when I've seen a young defenseman dominate at such a young age.

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Old
01-28-2007, 12:31 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
obviously i care so much that i put forth such a great effort in replying to every one of your responses

let me add one thing a little off this topic.. you should learn to respond to a statement -in writing- without asking a rhetorical question.. i feel like i am speaking to a complete idiot.. scary to think how you would articulate any of this if it were verbal
You put in enough of an effort to respond, that's all that matters. Bottom line, if you didn't care, you wouldn't respond. Now, stop contradicting yourself, thanks.

I'm done with this crap, you're nothing but a classless punk that needs to learn how to talk to people. I'm sure I'm not the only one that you've done this to. Said something to have someone disagree with you, and then say something like "lay off the crack, moron" and then have that person come back at you, and you get into defensive mode. Learn some respect, and grow a set.

Good night.

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01-28-2007, 12:35 AM
  #68
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I know, I have no class, but the point still stands.

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01-28-2007, 01:03 AM
  #69
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I know, I have no class, but the point still stands.
I never said anything about you.

I'm done with it, it's pointless. I posted something, and he disagreed with me and comes back with some glib remark "crack is wack." So, I gave him a taste of his own medicine, and he didn't like it. Too bad.

It is retarded, and I've realized how much of a retard I am for wasting my time on him.

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01-28-2007, 01:08 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
You need to stay up late more often and watch how well Phaneuf is playing right now. He has smoothed out his game considerably. Very good skater, handles the puck cleanly and makes a great first pass. And did I mention he hits like a freight train? He is not a diamond in the rough, he is a diamond right now today. I've got to admit I'm a little amazed because I thought his MO would be more Scott Stevens than Dennis Potvin but he just continues to raise his game. I don't know when I've seen a young defenseman dominate at such a young age.
I completely agree with you about Phaneuf's game.

I just think it's unfair, and ridiculous to compare him to the Predominant Defenseman Of Our Era.

Phaneuf just might be there one day, and that day might be VERY SOON. Until then, the comparisons hold no water.

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01-28-2007, 01:34 AM
  #71
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You're probably too young to even know who Crazy Eddie is junior. So go back to your "five towns" and enjoy your "idiot savant" occupation.
My comment was actually in jest.

I'll stay away from Five Towns though, thanks.

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01-28-2007, 05:40 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I completely agree with you about Phaneuf's game.

I just think it's unfair, and ridiculous to compare him to the Predominant Defenseman Of Our Era.

Phaneuf just might be there one day, and that day might be VERY SOON. Until then, the comparisons hold no water.
Let´s just agree that we agree

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01-28-2007, 07:13 AM
  #73
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Whoa, lets take a rational look at what is happening here.
Three facts:
1. Montoya is a potential elite NHL goalie.
2. Kevin Weekes will likely not return next year
3. The Rangers greatest need is a young, #1 or #2 center

If you trade Montoya at this point, the best you can expect is to get potential for potential. I think it pays to wait before considering trading him. We can go into next year with a Lundquist/Montoya tandem. I think the original plan will be to play Henrik about 55 games and Montoya 25. That could go up or down depending on how each plays and it might be a good think to push Lundquist a bit. Lets say Montoya plays well, either in a limited 25 game role or even in a situation where we plays almost half of the games. Then you have a bluechip to trade not for potential, but for a young, established and productive center.

I also don't think we should overstate the Montoya marketing aspect in south Florida. My mom has lived in Lauderhill for almost 25 years, about 5 miles away from the Panthers arena: I can see its roof from her condo. The arena is a long way from the Miami area, wher most Cuban-Americans live, (at least an hour by car), on the edge of the Everglades and far from everything. I think its location is part of the reason the Panthers don't draw as well as they should. This is not like Pedro Martinez and the Dominican population in NYC, who were baseball fans to start with. I'm not sure that Cuban-Americans would make the trip. While the Latino population in Surrise/Lauderhill/Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood is growing, it seems to me that most are from Central or South America or from other Caribbean isles and not Cuba.

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01-28-2007, 07:54 AM
  #74
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Frolik, Horton, or Olesz for Montoya (More could be added to both sides), I'd think about it. Youth for Youth. Thats the way this organization needs to be going and has already stated it will only deal youth/picks for players that will help in the long-term, so not aging UFA's, such as injury prone Bertuzzi (Who has also been a shell of himself ever since the Moore incident) and Stumpel, who is on tha tail end of his career. The Rangers of old back in the late '90's would have made a deal (Youth for aging players past their primes), but not anymore. No more Bure or Lindros type deals.

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01-28-2007, 11:01 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
Whoa, lets take a rational look at what is happening here.
Three facts:
1. Montoya is a potential elite NHL goalie.
2. Kevin Weekes will likely not return next year
3. The Rangers greatest need is a young, #1 or #2 center

If you trade Montoya at this point, the best you can expect is to get potential for potential. I think it pays to wait before considering trading him. We can go into next year with a Lundquist/Montoya tandem. I think the original plan will be to play Henrik about 55 games and Montoya 25. That could go up or down depending on how each plays and it might be a good think to push Lundquist a bit. Lets say Montoya plays well, either in a limited 25 game role or even in a situation where we plays almost half of the games. Then you have a bluechip to trade not for potential, but for a young, established and productive center.

I also don't think we should overstate the Montoya marketing aspect in south Florida. My mom has lived in Lauderhill for almost 25 years, about 5 miles away from the Panthers arena: I can see its roof from her condo. The arena is a long way from the Miami area, wher most Cuban-Americans live, (at least an hour by car), on the edge of the Everglades and far from everything. I think its location is part of the reason the Panthers don't draw as well as they should. This is not like Pedro Martinez and the Dominican population in NYC, who were baseball fans to start with. I'm not sure that Cuban-Americans would make the trip. While the Latino population in Surrise/Lauderhill/Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood is growing, it seems to me that most are from Central or South America or from other Caribbean isles and not Cuba.
Dude - I've lived down here in the Sunshine State for 15+ years. The Cubans are not just in Miami. They are everywhere, even here in Boca where I reside. Not only that, the Brazilians have flooded northern Broward county (Coconut Creek, Deerfield, Margate). Yes, the arena is out west, but people will drive to see their hero or icon (if the team is good). The Panthers already played in Miami Arena, and while it was a smaller arena, I couldn't be happier not having to schlep down there into that sketchy area.

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