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Paul Holmgren's Best Moves as GM (Edit: Added Worst Moves as GM)

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01-16-2014, 07:11 PM
  #1
BillyShoe1721
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Paul Holmgren's Best Moves as GM (Edit: Added Worst Moves as GM)

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Since taking over for Bobby Clarke in November of 2006, Paul Holmgren has been one of the most active general managers in the NHL. If there is a quality player out on the trade market, you can bet that the Flyers’ name will be among the list of teams that are interested.

This is a double-edged sword. On the positive side, the Flyers have been a perennial contender during Holmgren’s tenure as GM. On the negative side, he has been criticized for being impatient and unwilling to let his team gel and develop. As a result, he’s found himself, at points, with little to no cap space and an empty prospect cupboard.

Without further adieu, here are the top 10 Paul Holmgren transactions as Flyers GM in no particular order:
http://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-b....XpvYf5Il.dpuf

Should the Ville Leino trade be included? The Forsberg trade?

Edit: Holmgren's worst moves as GM:

Quote:
As mentioned in part one, Paul Holmgren’s itchy trigger finger can be an asset or a detriment to the Flyers. The biggest problem it has created is that the Flyers have, on a few occasions, seemingly outbid themselves when signing or acquiring players. In addition, his salary cap management has been spotty at best.

It is true that hindsight is 20/20, and it’s impossible for a GM to get a steal in every move he makes. But with most of these transactions, they were almost universally criticized from the start. Here are the ten worst decisions Paul Holmgren has made as Philadelphia Flyers GM:

Signed Randy Jones to a 2 year, $5.5M extension on July 2nd, 2008


Moving further back in Paul Holmgren’s tenure, we find a signing that was truly puzzling. In the four seasons where Jones played at least 20 games in the orange and black, he was a turnover machine. He led the team in giveaways per 60 minutes twice, and was second in the other two years here. He was a liability in the defensive zone for three years in a row, but Paul Holmgren decided to reward him with this contract.

Keep in mind that in 2008, the salary cap was only $56.4 million, which means that in terms of today’s cap dollars, Jones’ cap hit was the equivalent of $3.1 million cap hit. A year after signing this contract, he was waived and sent to the AHL. When Paul Holmgren tried to recall him in October, he was claimed on re-entry waivers and the Flyers were stuck with half of his cap hit on their books for essentially the entire season.
http://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-w...-transactions/


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 01-21-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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01-16-2014, 07:17 PM
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Wasn't one of these articles written last month pretty much touching on this same exact topic? Yawn

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01-16-2014, 07:23 PM
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LegionOfDoom91
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You might as well just change the thread title to read "DFF & Holmgren detractor's get in here".


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01-16-2014, 07:43 PM
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Forsberg? Yes. Billy Leino? Nah, that was all luck and chemistry.

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01-16-2014, 07:48 PM
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Adam Warlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
http://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-b....XpvYf5Il.dpuf

Should the Ville Leino trade be included? The Forsberg trade?
I would include Leino. Forsberg trade looked good at the time but Parent didnt pan out. Trading the 1st back to Nashville made that trade. Turing Meyer into Coburn was brilliant.

I consider the Carle trade one of his lesser moves. Briere shined in the playoffs but he didnt exactly live up to his contract the rest of the time.

A lot of people hate on the Pronger trade for what we gave up but I think any time you bring in a player of that caliber its gotta be considered a plus...even if it did have an unfortunate ending.

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01-16-2014, 07:49 PM
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Coburn trade.

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01-16-2014, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Forsberg? Yes. Billy Leino? Nah, that was all luck and chemistry.
It's still a good move. Some people like to hold the Pronger trade against him because of the bad luck of his career ending injury.

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01-16-2014, 08:02 PM
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Value-wise the Leino trade may have been his best. I don't care that he's struggled elsewhere, he was a pretty valuable piece on a team that went to the finals, and we gave up virtually nothing for him.

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01-16-2014, 08:53 PM
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I would include Leino. Forsberg trade looked good at the time but Parent didnt pan out. Trading the 1st back to Nashville made that trade. Turing Meyer into Coburn was brilliant.

I consider the Carle trade one of his lesser moves. Briere shined in the playoffs but he didnt exactly live up to his contract the rest of the time.

A lot of people hate on the Pronger trade for what we gave up but I think any time you bring in a player of that caliber its gotta be considered a plus...even if it did have an unfortunate ending.
Briere lived up to his contract when you compare him with the other options that summer, Drury and Gomez.

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01-16-2014, 09:13 PM
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signing Bryzgalov...........

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01-16-2014, 09:18 PM
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I support Homer but this article is ****

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01-16-2014, 10:12 PM
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Norm MacDonald
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Originally Posted by MRxBLACK View Post
Coburn trade.
Far and away his best move. It's really two trades amounting to Coburn for Freddy Meyer.

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01-16-2014, 10:22 PM
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Far and away his best move. It's really two trades amounting to Coburn for Freddy Meyer.
He had a really good haul in his first year of trades during the season & then that offseason. He brought in Coburn, Smith, Lupul, Hartnell, & Timonen during that span. Those guys along along with the progression of Carter, Richards, & Umberger really turned the club around after the mess he inherited from Clarke.

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01-16-2014, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
http://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-b....XpvYf5Il.dpuf

Should the Ville Leino trade be included? The Forsberg trade?
Leave off Prospal and add Schenn and Simmonds plus pick for Richards. That pick plus the Powe pick yielded Grossmann.

The Pronger deal was important in lifting the team to a new level, his loss is such a shame.

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01-16-2014, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He had a really good haul in his first year of trades during the season & then that offseason. He brought in Coburn, Smith, Lupul, Hartnell, & Timonen during that span. Those guys along along with the progression of Carter, Richards, & Umberger really turned the club around after the mess he inherited from Clarke.
You accidentally mentioned it yourself but guys like Richards, Carter, and Giroux were instrumental since Homer took over and all three of those guys (along with some others ) were inherited alongside the mess.

He made a great trade with Coburn then made a gamble with Timonen and Hartnells rights that ended up working out. Since then he has just as many, if not more, bad trades and signings as good ones.

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01-16-2014, 10:48 PM
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You accidentally mentioned it yourself but guys like Richards, Carter, and Giroux were instrumental since Homer took over and all three of those guys (along with some others ) were inherited alongside the mess.

He made a great trade with Coburn then made a gamble with Timonen and Hartnells rights that ended up working out. Since then he has just as many, if not more, bad trades and signings as good ones.
Lucky for us the lockout happened & Clarke wasn't able to trade those guys for old vets like he normally did at the end of his run.

I'm not arguing about now but giving credit where it was due he had a good first year in his tenure.

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01-17-2014, 12:43 AM
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I'm thinking Coburn and Read.

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01-17-2014, 12:49 AM
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Leino trade should definitely be included. Even if it was chemistry/luck, Leino was a beast during the cup run and had a solid season the next year. And we got him for a 5th + ****ing Ole-Kristian Tollefsen, who never even played another NHL game after being traded.

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01-17-2014, 02:12 AM
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How in the world is the Briere contract up there?? He was bought out last summer!!! Of course he had good seasons for us but come on...
"Fired Peter Laviolette on October 7th, 2013". Wow! Maybe this would be up there if it has happend waaaay earlier. In General i donīt like the artikel...But this is only my opinion

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01-17-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcelite View Post
How in the world is the Briere contract up there?? He was bought out last summer!!! Of course he had good seasons for us but come on...
"Fired Peter Laviolette on October 7th, 2013". Wow! Maybe this would be up there if it has happend waaaay earlier. In General i donīt like the artikel...But this is only my opinion
His postseason performances were outstanding:

68GP, 37G, 35A, 72P at 1.06 PPG.

That is:

1st in goals in the playoffs over those 5 years across the whole NHL.
4th in playoff points over those 5 years.
2nd most GPG after Ovechkin in that time. (25+ games)
6th in playoff PPG in that time. (25+ games)

The first 5 years in the regular season were pretty damn good as well:

330 GP, 118 G, 149 A, 267P at 0.81 PPG.

That is 44th in the NHL in that span for PPG, 30th for GPG. (players with 200+ games)

Briere was not a bad signing by any means, he fell off last year very apparently, but before then he was still a great player and a big part of the teams success in that time.

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01-17-2014, 08:18 AM
  #21
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Firing Lavi 3 games into the season instead during the offseason is definitely a bad/dumb move.

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01-17-2014, 08:23 AM
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Why wouldn't Leino be considered? I don't get the "luck and chemistry" argument. Homer traded an NHL/AHL tweener in Tollefsen and got back a guy who gave the Flyers solid point production. Who cares if Leino was an unknown commodity? It happened.

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01-17-2014, 08:35 AM
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I would say the Carter trade was better than the Richards trade but both probably aren't Homer's top moves.

The Coburn deal (only gave up Alexei Zhitnik)

Trading Nashville their 2007 1st round pick back for Scott Hartnell and Kimmo Timonen.

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01-17-2014, 08:47 AM
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The bigger discussion should be what will Holmgren's next move be?

The flyers are only 2 points up on being out of the playoffs. The next four games are against teams below them in the islanders (x2), hurricanes and blue jackets. After that the schedule turns brutal with the bruins, redwings, at the ducks, kings, sharks, and then home to Avalanche. They finish off with Calgary before the Olympic break. With that schedule I think it is very likely they will be out of a playoff spot come the Olympic break. They then play only 3 games before the official trade deadline on March 5 against the Sharks, rangers and then Capitals.

I think it is very likely Holmgren will be fired, or change positions ala Clarke, if the flyers don't make the playoffs for the 2nd year running. Does he try to save his job and risk the future of the club or sit tight and hope they make the playoffs?

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01-17-2014, 01:12 PM
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Talking about Holmgren gives me agita....especially since I've posted my arguments ad naseum as to why I think he is basically an average GM who looks brilliant when his gambling exploits work out but otherwise inconsistent and doesn't seem to have a real sustainable/longitudinal plan. He just seems to be all over the board and has to fix a lot of his own mistakes....some more ergegious than others.

I don't question his will to win and he is pretty good with eyeing talent. He should get credit for assembling the scouting staff. I just don't think he is the GM that is capable of assembling a true Stanley Cup contender let alone Ikea furniture any longer. Problem is that Hextall is a bigger unknown and not sure how many relationships he's established with other GM's..that does count for something when trying to wheel and deal.

Anyway..I thought Holmgren did very well in his initial year as GM but in between that and the Richards and Carter trades his record is questionable (keeping Stevens wayy too long, managing the cap poorly that lead to the loss of Upshall and some other players that screwed up playoff chemistry and the whole Leighton and Boosh fiasco which lead to Bob being mishandled and some other blowback)...same with after the Richards and Carter trade. Thought he was even more questionable and didn't follow those trades up properly and we actually regressed some especially if they miss the playoffs again. The Bryz fiasco and all the fallout from that along with keeping Lavi too long should not be just blown off and he bears responsibility for the fallout which so far has been one missed season of playoffs.

If they do miss the playoffs AGAIN...I don't think he will be fired but may step down. We'll see how the Flyers play with the schedule that is coming up and the Olympic layoff...not to mention the goaltending reverting to AVERAGE. Holmgren has a lot riding in this second half....

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