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Gretzky as next Rangers GM?

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:27 AM
  #26
94now
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I would tell TGO to continue to stay away from NHL. Except for the Olympics that were soon after his retirement years ago he was a complete failure in anything he tried to do. One of my fav Ranger and the best of all would have turned into a complete loser after he he hanged'em up.

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01-17-2014, 11:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Sorry but this is all just excuse making.

People complain about the mediocrity of our recent teams, those teams would have died for mediocrity.

If there was EVER a time for the Rangers to completely tank and rebuild it was after Gretzky left in '99. The Rangers were losing their best player. Our early-mid 90's stars, Leetch, Graves, Richter were all in their 30's. Beuk was gone. And they were already one of the worst teams in the league.

Signing those guys was an attempt to get back near the playoffs when the team desperately needed a complete overhaul. They needed an overhaul even if the 3 top 10 picks Smith had in '98 and '99 did not bust.

Neil Smith was a terrible GM outside of his first two years. He couldn't draft and when he did more often than not he traded the good players away in bad deals. His solution to everything was to throw money at it. You can't do that today. The cap world is unforgiving.

In the end Smith is no better than Sather. Compare his tenure with the Rangers to Sather post-Gretzky. Actually Smith had such a penchant for trading young players he might worry me more than Sather. And that is saying something.

Neil Smith? Barf.

Time to stop with the '94 fetish. No more retreads. If Gorton isn't the guy then bring in some new blood.


The worst NS UFA signing pales in comparison to Sather's UFA Gaffe's

Holik - 3rd liner for 45 million

Redden fading defenceman for 39.5 million

Scotty G

Chris D

Darius Kaspar

if there ever was a GM that thre money at a problem is was Glen Sather.

Neil Smith made some bad trades post cup. I will never deny that. But at leaset he was following a plan. He had a goal in mind and a team with a legit shot at at attaining that goal.

The trades didn't work out and we were left wanting, but he had more success in his run with the Rangers than Sather has had in his.

and for the lack of drafting skills?

Doug Weight is better than any player that Sather has drafted during his NYR stint. Zubov is better than any player Sather drafted during his NYR stint. Kovalev is better than any player Sather drafted during his NYR stint.

and looking and comparing the draft records between tenures, there are as many hits as there are misses on both sides.

However, NS has been better at drafting the higher end talents.

NS Drafted a 1st line center in Doug Weight in the 2nd round. Where is Sather's 1st line center?

NS Drafted a top of the line puck moving defenceman in Zubov. Where is Sather's PMD??

NS Drafted a 1st line winger in Kovalev, where is Sather's 1st line winger?

Don't give me that revisionist bull crap about NS not being able to draft.

Yes he traded them, and again, i make no excuses for it. But when you do a side by side comparisson, Sather couldn't carry NS's luggage.

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01-17-2014, 11:40 AM
  #28
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Anything other than Sather. I don't care if its a 23 year old emo that can't comprehend a full statement, anything other than Sather.

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01-17-2014, 11:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post


The worst NS UFA signing pales in comparison to Sather's UFA Gaffe's

Holik - 3rd liner for 45 million

Redden fading defenceman for 39.5 million

Scotty G

Chris D

Darius Kaspar

if there ever was a GM that thre money at a problem is was Glen Sather.

Neil Smith made some bad trades post cup. I will never deny that. But at leaset he was following a plan. He had a goal in mind and a team with a legit shot at at attaining that goal.

The trades didn't work out and we were left wanting, but he had more success in his run with the Rangers than Sather has had in his.

and for the lack of drafting skills?

Doug Weight is better than any player that Sather has drafted during his NYR stint. Zubov is better than any player Sather drafted during his NYR stint. Kovalev is better than any player Sather drafted during his NYR stint.

and looking and comparing the draft records between tenures, there are as many hits as there are misses on both sides.

However, NS has been better at drafting the higher end talents.

NS Drafted a 1st line center in Doug Weight in the 2nd round. Where is Sather's 1st line center?

NS Drafted a top of the line puck moving defenceman in Zubov. Where is Sather's PMD??

NS Drafted a 1st line winger in Kovalev, where is Sather's 1st line winger?

Don't give me that revisionist bull crap about NS not being able to draft.

Yes he traded them, and again, i make no excuses for it. But when you do a side by side comparisson, Sather couldn't carry NS's luggage.
I wasn't comparing Sather as Rangers GM to Smith as Rangers GM. If I had to choose between 2 horrifically bad GMs I would choose the one that won a cup. I was comparing Sather as Oilers GM during the same time Smith was here. They both won cups in the 90's and despite that I do not think either of them did a particularly good job. Especially in the 2nd half of the decade.

You're delusional if you think Smith's late 90's UFA signings aren't as bad as Sathers. The terms were shorter and the money smaller because that was the way UFA contracts were signed back then, but the signings were just as bad. Fleury. Kamensky. Quintal. Hatcher. Lefebvre. Kirk McLean.That is just who he signed in 1999. He also traded for Rich Pilon, Rob DiMaio and Alexandre Daigle. This is who he added to the team in the span of about six months. SIX MONTHS. In that same period he traded away Marc Savard and Mike Knuble.

As for drafting, Weight, Zubov and Kovalev were all drafted in Neil Smiths first 2 years. Nemchinov as well. And that's it. For the next decade he was unable to draft anyone of consequence except Savard and Nordstrom, both of who he traded before they had any impact with the team. All of them were traded and had their best years elsewhere, save maybe Zubov. And to top it all off Smith's parting gift was to draft 3 forwards in the top 9 that busted.

People say that Sather is the worst GM in the history of sports. At least on this board they do. But even if you discount everything that happened in the 1980's, Sather's Oilers won a cup and went to a couple of conference finals in the 1990's. And they did it without the financial backing of MSG. They did it without being an even remotely desirable location for free agents.

If Sather is the worst GM of all time, what the hell does that make Smith?

The team would be better off without EITHER of them anywhere near it.

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01-17-2014, 12:29 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
I wasn't comparing Sather as Rangers GM to Smith as Rangers GM. If I had to choose between 2 horrifically bad GMs I would choose the one that won a cup. I was comparing Sather as Oilers GM during the same time Smith was here. They both won cups in the 90's and despite that I do not think either of them did a particularly good job. Especially in the 2nd half of the decade.

You're delusional if you think Smith's late 90's UFA signings aren't as bad as Sathers. The terms were shorter and the money smaller because that was the way UFA contracts were signed back then, but the signings were just as bad. Fleury. Kamensky. Quintal. Hatcher. Lefebvre. Kirk McLean.That is just who he signed in 1999. He also traded for Rich Pilon, Rob DiMaio and Alexandre Daigle. This is who he added to the team in the span of about six months. SIX MONTHS. In that same period he traded away Marc Savard and Mike Knuble.

As for drafting, Weight, Zubov and Kovalev were all drafted in Neil Smiths first 2 years. Nemchinov as well. And that's it. For the next decade he was unable to draft anyone of consequence except Savard and Nordstrom, both of who he traded before they had any impact with the team. All of them were traded and had their best years elsewhere, save maybe Zubov. And to top it all off Smith's parting gift was to draft 3 forwards in the top 9 that busted.

People say that Sather is the worst GM in the history of sports. At least on this board they do. But even if you discount everything that happened in the 1980's, Sather's Oilers won a cup and went to a couple of conference finals in the 1990's. And they did it without the financial backing of MSG. They did it without being an even remotely desirable location for free agents.

If Sather is the worst GM of all time, what the hell does that make Smith?

The team would be better off without EITHER of them anywhere near it.
2nd worst.

I think NS was much better than Sather has shown to be here in NY.

You can try to minimize the selections of NS all you want. He did in 2 entry drafts what Sather hasn't been able to do in 13

as for the UFA signings, they were done with a specific purpose in mind.

We can go back and forth regarding the moves he made and you can continue to look at the names and I will look at the reasons.

NS recognized that the time had come to move the franchise in a different direction and acknowledged his intent ti doing that. Stating publically that teh contracts handed out were 1.) At the behest of Dolan and 2.) Contracts designed in length to term out when the new blood was set to take over.

This is not revisionist history. This is exactly what happened. They had the highest payroll and missed the PO's for a 3rd straight year. Dolan was livid and fired NS for what he thought was going to be a better GM that could bring about different results.



More bad drafting, more bad UFA signings, more bad trades, more missed PO's and 4 coaching changes later....


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01-17-2014, 12:37 PM
  #31
Staals Eye
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Whats with all the Gorton hate?

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01-17-2014, 02:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yeah, but he was an Oiler and Lil Jimmy has heard of him!
And this is exactly why it could happen.

It would be almost unbelievably stupid to hire Gretzky as GM. Which means it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

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01-17-2014, 02:17 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
I liked Smith. We got the cup but I didn't like his deals in 94. I feel it was more Keenan who made those deals (Amonte / Gartner)

IMO the Amonte / Zubov deals hurt us. Wasn't it Smith who gave that Nordic kid (DF) away to LA also turned out to be a stud.

Can't hate though he did bring the cup home.
OT: I feel like I am one of the rare people to have seen Doug Weight, Matthias Norström and Todd Marchant play for the Rangers.

Yeah, I don't think Neil Smith is a good choice to bring back. He did a great job of building a team of veterans to win the Cup, but then he over-comensated and we ended up with Brendl and Lundmark, who were untouchable until they were untradable.

It's not entirely his fault, I think the pressures on him from ownership were probably massive. That said, it's not just his decision-making -- he's just been out of the game for so long and being GM is such a relationships kind of job.

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01-17-2014, 02:29 PM
  #34
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Whats with all the Gorton hate?
Curious about this myself. Thought he was almost universally favored.

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01-17-2014, 02:36 PM
  #35
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Neil Smith admitted he mortgaged the future to win the cup in 1994, he felt it was their only shot after a missed opportunity in 1992. He didn't want to trade Amonte but Keenan felt as if the team didn't have enough grit to withstand the playoff grind.

After '94 was where the wheels really fell off - Smith catered towards Messier and let him have far too much say in player personnel. He also made moves that he felt would help Mark win another cup rather than make decisions that were best for the long-term future of the team. The Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Samuelsson swap exemplified this mantra - Messier thought Zubov was soft for opting to have surgery instead of playing through a wrist injury, and Smith thought that Robitaille could be the piece that led to another cup.

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01-17-2014, 02:38 PM
  #36
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Whats with all the Gorton hate?
Guilt by association.

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01-17-2014, 02:43 PM
  #37
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Would be incredibly stupid, and just the type of dumb "big shot" hire that Dolan could make.
Yea the guy who has millions and millions of dollars makes bad decisions

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01-17-2014, 02:44 PM
  #38
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Guilt by association.
I worry about that type of effect on anyone who works with Sather/Dolan. When the company mantra is to just make the playoffs every season, it leads to cutting corners and laziness.

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01-17-2014, 02:45 PM
  #39
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Neil Smith admitted he mortgaged the future to win the cup in 1994, he felt it was their only shot after a missed opportunity in 1992. He didn't want to trade Amonte but Keenan felt as if the team didn't have enough grit to withstand the playoff grind.

After '94 was where the wheels really fell off - Smith catered towards Messier and let him have far too much say in player personnel. He also made moves that he felt would help Mark win another cup rather than make decisions that were best for the long-term future of the team. The Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Samuelsson swap exemplified this mantra - Messier thought Zubov was soft for opting to have surgery instead of playing through a wrist injury, and Smith thought that Robitaille could be the piece that led to another cup.
Yuck

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On 14 March 1996, he was traded with Nathan LaFayette, Ian Laperrière, Ray Ferraro and a draft pick to the Los Angeles Kings for Marty McSorley, Jari Kurri and Shane Churla.
The "he" is Mattias Norstrom.

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01-17-2014, 02:46 PM
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Curious about this myself. Thought he was almost universally favored.
Didn't he make like three moves when Sather was out and people flipped out? Yet they were good moves

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01-17-2014, 02:46 PM
  #41
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Yea the guy who has millions and millions of dollars makes bad decisions
He won a ****ing gene pool contest. Do some research on Charles Dolan and get back to me.

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01-17-2014, 02:49 PM
  #42
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He won a ****ing gene pool contest. Do some research on Charles Dolan and get back to me.
Be a owner of a multimillion dollar company and come talk to me

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01-17-2014, 02:51 PM
  #43
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Be a owner of a multimillion dollar company and come talk to me
I have about as much qualification as James Dolan - unfortunately Charles isn't my Pops.

I did go to a much better college than Jimmy, however, even without the nepotism.

Im confident I could also run Cablevision, the Knicks, and the Rangers into the ground over a 15 year period.

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01-17-2014, 02:53 PM
  #44
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Yuck



The "he" is Mattias Norstrom.
Yay for Messier's Oilers buddies and toughness! We definitely dodged a bullet when Messier wasn't hired as head coach.

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01-17-2014, 02:54 PM
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I have about as much qualification as James - unfortunately Charles isn't my Pops.

I did go to a much better college than Jimmy, however, even without the nepotism.

Im confident I could also run Cablevision, the Knicks, and the Rangers into the ground over a 15 year period.
Lul pretty sure he isnt running the knicks and rangers into the ground... people on this board

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01-17-2014, 02:55 PM
  #46
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Yay for Messier's Oilers buddies and toughness!
Even with all that, I still think Neil Smith was a much better GM than Sather.

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01-17-2014, 02:57 PM
  #47
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Lul pretty sure he isnt running the knicks and rangers into the ground... people on this board
Performance wise, he certainly is.

Financially? A complete idiot can get 18,000 people to come watch something in a city of 8 million. A non-idiot would take a harder look at all the revenue he has left on the table by fielding such **** teams for so long.

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01-17-2014, 03:00 PM
  #48
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Even with all that, I still think Neil Smith was a much better GM than Sather.
For sure, the track record speaks for itself - he is the GM that managed to put together a team that ended the cup drought, and those teams were largely more talented than the ones under Sather.

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01-17-2014, 03:05 PM
  #49
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For sure, the track record speaks for itself - he is the GM that managed to put together a team that ended the cup drought, and those teams were largely more talented than the ones under Sather.
Yea, and while murky at times, I always got a better sense of what he was trying to do. In 1997, the Sakic move was a gamble that didn't work out.

In 1999, he did try to rebuild but it just happened to be during one of the worst drafts of all-time.

Dolan fired him when it was time to be fired. Wish he could've done the same to Sather, which was about 10 years ago after his embarrassing Trotter hire/stint on the bench.

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01-17-2014, 03:05 PM
  #50
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Even with all that, I still think Neil Smith was a much better GM than Sather.
Agreed.

And whats with Neil Smith not having any good draft picks after 'his first few drafts' ??

Sundstrom and Marchant in 93(over 2000 NHL games combined) Cloutier, Boulton and Johnsson in 94, Savard in 95, as well as others that played a good amount of NHL games.

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Performance wise, he certainly is.

Financially? A complete idiot can get 18,000 people to come watch something in a city of 8 million. A non-idiot would take a harder look at all the revenue he has left on the table by fielding such **** teams for so long.
Agreed.

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