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Has Adam Oates Been Fired Yet????

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12-12-2013, 02:43 PM
  #401
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The ice time disparity if I remember correctly was pretty game to game. When the caps would be up early, Hunter would ride his defensive stoppers. When the Caps were down a goal he would ride OV. If they were tied. Well you get the idea.
this is correct. if the caps scored the first goal of the game, ov was pinned to the bench until they lost the lead. ive never seen a coach that literally tried to win any game on any one goal lead that he got and then turtled on it. part of the reason they didn't make it out of the second round was their complete refusal to even try to score an insurance goal.

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12-12-2013, 03:04 PM
  #402
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so did boudreau. hunter hockey was not sustainable. if you want to return to team konowalchuk and play that kind of game, ok. you just cant keep players like ovechkin and backstrom and green happy doing that. trade them off and replace them with players like Callahan and Kesler.

us old timers remember what happens when you have a thouroughbred like say....hall of fame quarterback sonny jurgensen and bring in a coach that wants to run the ball 3 times and punt and play a field position game waiting for a turnover. its not sustainable.
Way to completely miss the point by cherrypicking a single line of a post. Kudos.

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12-12-2013, 04:03 PM
  #403
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That's one. This season only. Through December 12th. Anyone else? How solid were the d-lines under BB and Hunter? Was there ever a true 1-2 pairing?
Calzner has always been their best bet. Carlson was a stud last year (at even-strength anyway).

GMGM has never sufficiently addressed the blueline overall but this team isn't a Jay Bouwmeester or even a Duncan Keith away from being legit. Not under Boudreau, Hunter or Oates. They would still very likely be plagued by poor decision-making and a lack of timing/cohesion. Sure, it never hurts to stack the blueline and ideally the top four should be improved but on a systematic level they've never been close to as disciplined and cohesive as they need to be. Hunter made that choppiness into an artform but the root issues weren't addressed. Maybe with more time and further changes they would have been. Thus far under Oates it's hard to say he's really dug in and made a fundamental impact. The constant learning on the job hires are unforgiveable.

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12-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #404
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Calzner has always been their best bet. Carlson was a stud last year (at even-strength anyway).

GMGM has never sufficiently addressed the blueline overall but this team isn't a Jay Bouwmeester or even a Duncan Keith away from being legit. Not under Boudreau, Hunter or Oates. They would still very likely be plagued by poor decision-making and a lack of timing/cohesion. Sure, it never hurts to stack the blueline and ideally the top four should be improved but on a systematic level they've never been close to as disciplined and cohesive as they need to be. Hunter made that choppiness into an artform but the root issues weren't addressed. Maybe with more time and further changes they would have been. Thus far under Oates it's hard to say he's really dug in and made a fundamental impact. The constant learning on the job hires are unforgiveable.
That might be debatable. I mean '09-'10 season i think if you add Duncan Keith to that Caps team, they would have gone atleast to the ECF. He won the Norris that year and would have been huge help to that offensive powerhouse team we had.

Kind of sad to admit though that even thinking back if we managed to add Keith to that without giving anything up, this team still wouldn't have been Stanley Cup favourite. And since then this team has only gone downhill.

Just realised you might have meant adding Keith to this current team. If that's the case then yeah i agree that wouldn't be enough to even be among top-2 favourites in the East.

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12-12-2013, 05:49 PM
  #405
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That might be debatable. I mean '09-'10 season i think if you add Duncan Keith to that Caps team, they would have gone atleast to the ECF. He won the Norris that year and would have been huge help to that offensive powerhouse team we had.

Kind of sad to admit though that even thinking back if we managed to add Keith to that without giving anything up, this team still wouldn't have been Stanley Cup favourite. And since then this team has only gone downhill.

Just realised you might have meant adding Keith to this current team. If that's the case then yeah i agree that wouldn't be enough to even be among top-2 favourites in the East.
Like I said earlier some dead weight needs to be removed and 1-2 legit top d-men need to be added to THIS team. Every pairing is then playing against an easier group of forwards and instantly your goalie's job is easier, too. Likewise your forwards are more free to open it up offensively.

We have talented goalies. We have forwards who can score and special teams that have shown they can be top notch. We are literally a few TOP TIER d-men (and removing a few slugs like Laich and Brouwer) away from being potentially one of the best in the east if not the league, imo.

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12-12-2013, 06:16 PM
  #406
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That might be debatable. I mean '09-'10 season i think if you add Duncan Keith to that Caps team, they would have gone atleast to the ECF. He won the Norris that year and would have been huge help to that offensive powerhouse team we had.

Kind of sad to admit though that even thinking back if we managed to add Keith to that without giving anything up, this team still wouldn't have been Stanley Cup favourite. And since then this team has only gone downhill.

Just realised you might have meant adding Keith to this current team. If that's the case then yeah i agree that wouldn't be enough to even be among top-2 favourites in the East.
it's not realistic to build your team around the premise that you need multiple players in the richard/ross/vezina/norris race. having even one guy like that is a luxury. having two, is a minor miracle.

it's more appropriate to build and train your team for possession, which puts players in a position to succeed and, with a little luck, win those trophies.

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01-13-2014, 06:36 AM
  #407
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He made some line changes.

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01-13-2014, 08:34 AM
  #408
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Isn't it hilarious that all logic flies in his face, Fehr off wing, 3 shoot first guys together, and that is about the best his top line has looked all year?

Almost the exact opposite of what logic suggests, is working.

One of you beatnik lurkers should ask him about that, but do so at your own risk because you will be exposing just how simple it can be to be a hockey coach. Have a follow up question for when he answers, "it's just hockey"

Like, why do you preach consistency in lines as the key?

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01-17-2014, 09:49 PM
  #409
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Here's a list of this staff's accomplishments:

1- Designed a single effective PP scheme/formation.

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01-17-2014, 10:24 PM
  #410
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Oates isn't going anywhere. Just a slump.

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01-17-2014, 11:56 PM
  #411
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Oates isn't going anywhere. Just a slump.
They've had three four(or more) game losing streaks this year. They suck.

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01-17-2014, 11:58 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Here's a list of this staff's accomplishments:

1- Designed a single effective PP scheme/formation.
Bunk in a bag....its come to this

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01-18-2014, 12:49 AM
  #413
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Show me a thing those coaches have done to improve the team... as PP cooled down and Ovechkin had several bad games, we have nothing.
The only single reason to keep Oates is to avoid changing coaches every year.
Handling 2 best forwards and keeping 90-19-8 line for so long while it was dead obvious it was a trainwreck speaks volumes on Oates' priorities.

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01-18-2014, 07:07 AM
  #414
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He was able to build a TRAIN WRECK!

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01-18-2014, 07:20 AM
  #415
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I would love to see one area that he has made progress in. ONE! We are in the exact same spot we were last year. No number one goalie, just a rotation of guys. Rotating lines who don't contribute goals on a consistent basis 5 on 5. A defensive core who plays soft and slow overall and has the bottom 2 rotating players who shouldn't be playing at this level. And on the fringe of making the playoff with a 2C at the end of his contract, multiple players overpaid, and very little in the prospects department.

Oh and a horrible front office.

Ground hogs day.

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01-18-2014, 07:23 AM
  #416
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I am starting to think Oatsies scheme in the Dzone is worse than the defense itself. I have no idea what we are doing nor why we are doing it. Coupled with the Gs falling apart, its a decoupling train wreck.

Oates lines to start periods or after goals, and who the D are, seems to be a possible issue as well. Say if he only puts out Ovi with Erskine types of things. Ovi never starts a period. Starting OT lines.

Eventually he is too easy to game plan for when he remains so hard headed about these things. You'd think they are working.

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01-18-2014, 07:42 AM
  #417
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momentum is building for some movement. I don't think the g's are falling apart, though. Unless you mean that only in terms of the one game. .

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01-18-2014, 08:32 AM
  #418
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Can't wait till he's fired, unfortunately that'll never happen.

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01-18-2014, 08:39 AM
  #419
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Can't wait till he's fired, unfortunately that'll never happen.
Oates, GMGM? Or just GMGM?

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01-18-2014, 09:02 AM
  #420
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Oates, GMGM? Or just GMGM?
Oates, I'm hoping GMGM isn't re-signed this offseason.

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01-18-2014, 11:16 AM
  #421
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Let's look at some recent quotes from Oates and a few players via various news sites...

After Sabres loss:

Oates - ''I think the guys are a little tired,'' Washington coach Adam Oates said. ''I don't think we had the energy we should.''


After Sharks loss:

Oates - ''I thought the whole team played very well,'' Capitals coach Adam Oates said. ''Hard fought game; great pace to it. Obviously, didn't come through in the shootout, but it was a good hockey game.''


After Pens loss:

Oates - “Shootouts are tough [to evaluate]. It’s not that you don’t care, but you don’t care. Not that you don’t want your points. But one of my criteria [for judging the game] is in the morning when I wake up.

“If I played in that game last night, how would I feel? You’re upset after the game because you lost. You shower, you eat, you get on a plane, you travel, you sleep, you wake up, you come to the rink the next day, and say to the guys, ‘Good game last night, eh? We could have won that game.’

“I can never get away from that, because if I go in there and say something else, they’re going to tune me out.

“They’re going to say, ‘He’s pulling amateur psychology trying to jack us up for tonight. It’s like looking for the Knute Rockne [speech] as opposed to saying, ‘Hey, boys, we played a good game. That page is over. Let’s do it again tonight.’ I’m way more a believer in that. If you look for highs and lows you’re going to have highs and lows.”

Ovechkin - ''I think we played today great,'' Ovechkin said. ''We made a couple mistakes, but every period we got the lead. Unfortunately, we lost the game, we lost the point. I don't think we deserved to lose tonight.''


After Blue Jackets loss:

Oates - “I don’t want to make excuses. Just mentally not ready,” Coach Adam Oates said. “It’s very frustrating. [The Blue Jackets] are obviously a good team and they’re going to have their moments in the game, but you just can’t let a game get away and be that easy. It’s not right.”

Ovechkin - “Everybody understand if you’re not going to prepare and you’re not going to be ready for the game nobody going to help you. Even if I’m going to talk or [Nicklas Backstrom] is going to talk, it’s not going to help,” Alex Ovechkin said. “You have to be ready 100 percent. All team today, including me, everybody was not ready. It’s shame on us.”

Carlson - “This is a bad effort, a let-down by us from the start,” Carlson said. “We do have quite a bit of games left but the more setbacks that we have the harder we’re making our lives. You want to be not worried about in the hunt, we want to be in the playoffs all the time and we need to change something to pick it up.”


-------------------------



Oates has a passive-aggressive amateur psychology coaching style while claiming to not want that. He benches Tom Wilson to send a message. He puts guys in the doghouse. But he won't make motivational speeches because....he can't. I think that's the bottom line. He's not a rah rah motivator and he's found ways to work around that.

Unfortunately, he's dealing with an organization that has SO MUCH LAZY INERTIA that self-motivation can't be relied on. He has to change his style, or someone else has to do it. This is Glen Hanlon all over again.

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01-18-2014, 12:28 PM
  #422
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Scotty Bowman would take a dump on Oates' Kumbaya BS.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=23330
Quote:
"The messages are almost always the same," he said. "You just try and say the same things in a different fashion. Hopefully a light bulb goes on somewhere for somebody. It's hard to spin the same speech every day.

"[The coaching staff's] job is to try and provide information, and no question you get stale saying the same thing. You have to try and come up with different ways to say it. When you're losing, it's harder because everybody's a little sour, and winning it's easier. There's always ways to do it. We tried a different approach this morning."
Truly inspirational.

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01-18-2014, 12:33 PM
  #423
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Its gotten to the point where I think I'd prefer Iron Mike.

That's truly depressing.

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01-18-2014, 12:48 PM
  #424
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Scotty Bowman would take a dump on Oates' Kumbaya BS.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=23330

Truly inspirational.
Exactly. Oates is making excuses for why he doesn't motivate. It doesn't have to be the same thing every day, and even if it is that's your JOB. Find ways to motivate your staff.

Any business manager who just threw his hands in the air and said "they're not listening, why bother" would be fired within the week and someone else with a different approach would be brought in.

I've been on both sides of that equation. You have to find a balance between personal connection and authority. As someone who is taking direction you have to feel respected and also understand that any firm-handedness is for your own good from a LEADER that knows you better than you know yourself. The reasons and payoff are clearer later.

Oates strikes me as the kind of guy who's read management books about life balance and empowerment in order to calm an overactive mind while mostly eschewing the more high impact inspirational examples and archetypes (as his contemptuous Knute Rockne comment might indicate).

I'm not against the modern theories regarding "intrinsic motivation" and empowering people, and have employed them myself. But you have to be able to borrow from other models and adapt as necessary. Just how much of that you can get away with depends on the person you're managing and the situation/job.

In the case of a win-or-else professional sports organization that has a history of choking and country club mentality, just sitting back and expecting self-motivation to take over is probably the worst thing you can do. You'll probably find more aggressive or balanced styles among the most successful coaches than you will anything resembling Oates' overly intellectual psychology-that-isn't-psychology approach.

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01-18-2014, 01:07 PM
  #425
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Casual observer, admittedly, but I also think Oates has grossly mismanaged the goaltending situation. The first real troubling moment came during the road game in Calgary, when Holtby got absolutely shelled early, gave three (could have been six), and got pulled.

Ever since, it's been 'blame the goalie.' If not in word, then certainly in deed -- too many quick hooks. Some coaches build sound defensive systems and other coaches place higher expectations on goalies to cover up mistakes, system flaws, etc. Oates falls in the latter camp, but to an extreme degree, imo. He's proving to be a confidence killer.

Others here will have better perspectives, but this is what I've seen...

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