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Old
01-28-2007, 12:40 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Frolik, Horton, or Olesz for Montoya (More could be added to both sides), I'd think about it. Youth for Youth. Thats the way this organization needs to be going and has already stated it will only deal youth/picks for players that will help in the long-term, so not aging UFA's, such as injury prone Bertuzzi (Who has also been a shell of himself ever since the Moore incident) and Stumpel, who is on tha tail end of his career. The Rangers of old back in the late '90's would have made a deal (Youth for aging players past their primes), but not anymore. No more Bure or Lindros type deals.
Horton for Montoya is not fair value for us at all. Montoya isn't going to get Horton. Horton after his pathetic start, has been our second best forward for a good stretch of the season. Why would we trade Horton, our second best offensive weapon, who has insane potential when our offense is awful?

Bouwmeester for Montoya is a joke. Not going to happen. Living in a dream world. I have to ask if many of you guys watch Bouwmeester on a regular basis, because if you think Bouwmeester/Montoya deal would happen, im assuming not.

I'd be very suprised of Olesz were traded either. This kid is going to be really really good, and i don't see Martin giving up on him.

Why would Florida offload any of their three best young assets for Montoya? Montoya is a good prospect but it is hard to predict on whether he will be elite or not.

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01-28-2007, 01:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Dude - I've lived down here in the Sunshine State for 15+ years. The Cubans are not just in Miami. They are everywhere, even here in Boca where I reside. Not only that, the Brazilians have flooded northern Broward county (Coconut Creek, Deerfield, Margate). Yes, the arena is out west, but people will drive to see their hero or icon (if the team is good). The Panthers already played in Miami Arena, and while it was a smaller arena, I couldn't be happier not having to schlep down there into that sketchy area.
The question to be asked here is... "Does the Cuban populus show a remote interest in hockey?"

I agree with trying to market Montoya to a latin-american populus, I think it's a great idea. But if they show no interest in the sport, what's the point? If there's even a small amount to build on, then that's fine, but they need something.

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01-28-2007, 01:31 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Horton for Montoya is not fair value for us at all. Montoya isn't going to get Horton. Horton after his pathetic start, has been our second best forward for a good stretch of the season. Why would we trade Horton, our second best offensive weapon, who has insane potential when our offense is awful?

Bouwmeester for Montoya is a joke. Not going to happen. Living in a dream world. I have to ask if many of you guys watch Bouwmeester on a regular basis, because if you think Bouwmeester/Montoya deal would happen, im assuming not.

I'd be very suprised of Olesz were traded either. This kid is going to be really really good, and i don't see Martin giving up on him.

Why would Florida offload any of their three best young assets for Montoya? Montoya is a good prospect but it is hard to predict on whether he will be elite or not.

It's hard to predict if Frolik (Who is have an average season in the OHL), Horton, or Olesz become elite as well. Bouwmeester I never asked for (And I do not think Montoya is worth him).

Now why would Florida trade for one of the best goalie prospects in the league (Using one of Horton, Olesz, or Frolik)? Because Flordia has nothing in the system goalie wise that could be a potential elite goalie. You can have all those guy but I don't see another team trading a very good, young goalie to Florida without one of those guys coming back the other way. Don't forget (Although it doesn't mean that much) that Olesz was picked what like 1 position after Montoya.

I also didn't say it would be straight up 1 for 1 either. I stated that more could/should be added to either side. You have to give to get and as of right now its nice to have all those very good young player/prospects but that team is going nowhere playoff wise with the goaltending it has on the current roster (Auld/Belfour) or in the system (Shantz/Plante).

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01-28-2007, 01:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
He's not a franchise goaltender yet, hasn't played a game in the NHL.

A future franchise goaltender?

I most definitely agree with you on that, and what we should trade him for if or when we do so.

You have to build from the net out to build a cup winner... I think we should hold onto him for now and let him get some NHL experience, showcasing him before we deal him.

Besides... Henrik's only in his 2nd year, and it's been rocky at times for him. Let's be completely sure that he's the real deal before we move Al. Al is a GREAT fallback option in net.
I mean to say there's a good chance he'll be one of the top 10 players at his position when he's in his prime. Of course he's not a franchise player yet. But the problem is I don't see him getting much NHL time with us, and if we hang on to him for too long than his value may decline.

The most he's going to play next year is 25-30 games as an NHL backup, and that's only if they decide to bring him up rather than go with a veteran backup. They might think it's better to let him play 60 games in Hartford.

The point is he's probably never going to be our starter. And it doesn't make sense to keep such a valuable player if he's never going to play. He's going to be moved at some point, so we might as well do it when his value is at it's highest.

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01-28-2007, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Horton for Montoya is not fair value for us at all. Montoya isn't going to get Horton. Horton after his pathetic start, has been our second best forward for a good stretch of the season. Why would we trade Horton, our second best offensive weapon, who has insane potential when our offense is awful?

Bouwmeester for Montoya is a joke. Not going to happen. Living in a dream world. I have to ask if many of you guys watch Bouwmeester on a regular basis, because if you think Bouwmeester/Montoya deal would happen, im assuming not.

I'd be very suprised of Olesz were traded either. This kid is going to be really really good, and i don't see Martin giving up on him.

Why would Florida offload any of their three best young assets for Montoya? Montoya is a good prospect but it is hard to predict on whether he will be elite or not.
Another poster proposed Bouwmeester for Montoya, and I said it was the most lopsided trade I'd ever seen on here.

There's no way an unproven goaltending prospect can get you an elite young defender.

Just as you say how hard it is to predict how good Montoya will be, it is just as hard to say the same about Olesz. People must have forgotten that he got Phaneuf'ed at the 04 WJC, out cold. Some say that he hasn't been the same since, I don't know how true it is, but I'd believe it... especially when I saw the hit live on tv.

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01-28-2007, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
It's hard to predict if Frolik (Who is have an average season in the OHL), Horton, or Olesz become elite as well. Bouwmeester I never asked for (And I do not think Montoya is worth him).

Now why would Florida trade for one of the best goalie prospects in the league (Using one of Horton, Olesz, or Frolik)? Because Flordia has nothing in the system goalie wise that could be a potential elite goalie. You can have all those guy but I don't see another team trading a very good, young goalie to Florida without one of those guys coming back the other way. Don't forget (Although it doesn't mean that much) that Olesz was picked what like 1 position after Montoya.

I also didn't say it would be straight up 1 for 1 either. I stated that more could/should be added to either side. You have to give to get and as of right now its nice to have all those very good young player/prospects but that team is going nowhere playoff wise with the goaltending it has on the current roster (Auld/Belfour) or in the system (Shantz/Plante).
I agree with Frolik. The only reason i'd be inclined to keep him is due to our awful prospect system. Anthoy Stewart is one of our main prospects, that tells you something. Frolik plays in the Q though! He is having a decent season, on an awful Rimouski team. 40 points in 31 games isn't that bad considering he has no support. It is too early to tell how Frolik is going to turn out.

Horton has 38 Points in 51 games, after an awful start. Still very inconsistent, next year he should breakout. He has all the talent to become an elite powerforward.

Olesz is harder to predict. He really struggled early in the year, but a 4 game stint in the AHL really helped him. Since his re-call he's been one of our best forwards. Has all the tools, which he showed last night. He was picked after Montoya but netminders are alot harder to predict in how they develop. His stock fell due to that hit at the WJ's. He has the skating, the two way game, the stickhandling and the passing ability to become a first line forward in time. At this point in time, i'd much rather have Horton over Montoya and i'd be inclined to keep Olesz over Montoya.

Belfour has actually been quite good this year. Auld has been below average. I think we are much more likely to acquire an older goalie either by trade or free agency in which we don't have to give up our young core.

I agree that NYR would have to get Olesz or Frolik in return otherwise it doesn't help them (Horton/Bouwmeester aren't realistically attainable through Montoya).

Of course, i may be absolutely wrong and Martin does acquire Montoya or a similar player with one of younger guys.

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01-28-2007, 02:08 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The question to be asked here is... "Does the Cuban populus show a remote interest in hockey?"

I agree with trying to market Montoya to a latin-american populus, I think it's a great idea. But if they show no interest in the sport, what's the point? If there's even a small amount to build on, then that's fine, but they need something.
I think they do. Not like soccer or baseball, but give them a reason like this and that can change. Of course it has to do with the fact that there are barely any latinos in the sport. But, with a new generation of Cubans, the kids will like hockey and love it if they have one of their own to cheer for.

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01-28-2007, 02:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting View Post
I mean to say there's a good chance he'll be one of the top 10 players at his position when he's in his prime. Of course he's not a franchise player yet. But the problem is I don't see him getting much NHL time with us, and if we hang on to him for too long than his value may decline.

The most he's going to play next year is 25-30 games as an NHL backup, and that's only if they decide to bring him up rather than go with a veteran backup. They might think it's better to let him play 60 games in Hartford.

The point is he's probably never going to be our starter. And it doesn't make sense to keep such a valuable player if he's never going to play. He's going to be moved at some point, so we might as well do it when his value is at it's highest.
I don't know about that. Lundquist has been up and down this year. Not stellar by any means. If it continues, you never know.

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01-28-2007, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
I think they do. Not like soccer or baseball, but give them a reason like this and that can change. Of course it has to do with the fact that there are barely any latinos in the sport. But, with a new generation of Cubans, the kids will like hockey and love it if they have one of their own to cheer for.
First Florida will have to do a better job of reaching out to the fans, just as 90% of the NHL cities will.

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01-28-2007, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
First Florida will have to do a better job of reaching out to the fans, just as 90% of the NHL cities will.
That starts with a better team. They do try here, but it's what I called a manufactured product. Loads of gimmicks at the games, cheerleaders, homer announcers (Potvin to boot), and a silly mascot. I always complain when I go, to which I am told, "aw, come on, it's for the kids..."

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01-28-2007, 04:22 PM
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I disagree with you, and here's why.

I've watched both closely, and really, what sets the two apart is just style of play. Dion is far more aggressive than Jay-Bo is. Dion is THE BEST open ice hitter the game has seen since Scott Stevens. Bouwmeester doesn't even come close to him terms of that. They both can skate with any forward in the league. They both can body off the most elusive of players. They both match up very well against bigger, more physical forwards. Their offense is on an elite level. They both have HUGE shots. I think Dion jumps into the play a little more, as Bouwmeester is a bit more reserved, from what I've seen. Dion will go wire-to-wire at times, while Bouwmeester doesn't do that all too often. I think their on-ice vision, and their outlet passes are more than comparable.

What it comes down to is Dion being a more high-strung defender, in the sense that he's overly aggressive.

I think Bouwmeester would have the offensive numbers that Phaneuf has if it wasn't for the fact that Florida's offense is mediocre at best. They're the 5th worst in the east in goals scored (143). Plus, Calgary is a far more superior team than Florida, in every facet of the game. If Bouwmeester had half of the defensive help that Phaneuf did, he'd be twice as dangerous.
I think from a talent perspective Bo is right up there with him. Now I do agree that in time, Bo could be on that kind of level.

I think from an offensive standpoint, they are both pretty close though it should be noted that Bo has about two years on Phaneuf. However (and this really just opinion) I think Phaneuf has the higher offensive ceiling. To me assists are a little easier to come by if you're in a situation to get them than goals. In time I think Phaneuf will see his assist numbers rise and will on average put up around 10-15 more points a year than Bo.

But I think Phaneuf's ability to combine that with a nasty edge really just adds so much to his game. He's a monster in the crease, he's a very solid hitter and he's intimidating. It's kind of like Scott Stevens, if you took out his physical side you'd still have had a very good defenseman but that physical side just adds so much to his game. I mean really Phaneuf is a do anything type defenseman.

A lot of my opinion comes down watching them since juniors. Bo, to me at least, never seemed to be showing me everything he had. In a lot of ways he reminded me of Malakhov. He was a big kid who could skate, move the puck and take over a game physically....if he wanted to. But I wonder about his ability to put everything together sometimes. I think in the end he is a very good young defenseman, but I just wonder if he ever becomes all that he should be.

Phaneuf on the other hand, has never left me wondering. I was a HUGE fan of the kid back in 2003 and I can remember telling people even then that the kid had far more upside than they realized (got in to some tooth and nail conversations about his offensive upside that makes me smile now). Personally he was my pick of the top 3 defenseman that year but a big thing is that he goes all out.

To me it seems that Phaneuf is still pretty raw and doing some amazing things whereas at this point Bo is almost to the point of what you see is what you get. In the end I just think that Phaneuf can do everything Bo can and more just creates too much of a gap. Phaneuf is an EXTREMELY rare combination. Calgary isn't likely to ever let that kid go, whereas Bo I can see as being far more "touchable" so to speak.

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01-28-2007, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
That starts with a better team. They do try here, but it's what I called a manufactured product. Loads of gimmicks at the games, cheerleaders, homer announcers (Potvin to boot), and a silly mascot. I always complain when I go, to which I am told, "aw, come on, it's for the kids..."
Yeah, that's the thing. The excess crap is what comes with the expansion teams. They feel like they have to put it over the top. A lot of these teams just lack good coaching and a good front office. Luongo was a terrible break for Florida.

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I think from a talent perspective Bo is right up there with him. Now I do agree that in time, Bo could be on that kind of level.

I think from an offensive standpoint, they are both pretty close though it should be noted that Bo has about two years on Phaneuf. However (and this really just opinion) I think Phaneuf has the higher offensive ceiling. To me assists are a little easier to come by if you're in a situation to get them than goals. In time I think Phaneuf will see his assist numbers rise and will on average put up around 10-15 more points a year than Bo.
I agree, Phaneuf does the higher offensive ceiling, and that is because of his style of player. I'm sure as you've watched Phaneuf, he has more of a tendency to go end-to-end with the puck, while Bouwmeester is a guy who sneaks in the backdoor with a shot, and lets the offense generate the play. Phaneuf is a high-risk kind of defender in that sense though. But I agree, Phaneuf's offensive numbers will be better. He also has a slightly better shot if you ask me.

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But I think Phaneuf's ability to combine that with a nasty edge really just adds so much to his game. He's a monster in the crease, he's a very solid hitter and he's intimidating. It's kind of like Scott Stevens, if you took out his physical side you'd still have had a very good defenseman but that physical side just adds so much to his game. I mean really Phaneuf is a do anything type defenseman.
I think the Stevens comparisons were bang on from day one when I saw him knock Olesz's lights out at the WJC in 04.

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A lot of my opinion comes down watching them since juniors. Bo, to me at least, never seemed to be showing me everything he had. In a lot of ways he reminded me of Malakhov. He was a big kid who could skate, move the puck and take over a game physically....if he wanted to. But I wonder about his ability to put everything together sometimes. I think in the end he is a very good young defenseman, but I just wonder if he ever becomes all that he should be.
I don't like the Malakhov comparison. I think Bouwmeester is a far better skater, and is far better defensively, ESPECIALLY one-on-one. Nevermind the positional aspect of the game... Malakhov was as poor as they come, positionally. He had million dollar talent, and a 10 cent head. Bouwmeester is not a soft defender, I don't know if you're trying to say that he's somewhat soft, but from what I've seen, he's definitely not. I think if anything, he plays like Scott Niedermayer with size, than Scott Stevens. I'm not comparing Jay-Bo to either of those two, but I think he's a very smooth, effortless skater, who while he doesn't throw big hits, has the ability to body off the forward and crunch him.

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Phaneuf on the other hand, has never left me wondering. I was a HUGE fan of the kid back in 2003 and I can remember telling people even then that the kid had far more upside than they realized (got in to some tooth and nail conversations about his offensive upside that makes me smile now). Personally he was my pick of the top 3 defenseman that year but a big thing is that he goes all out.
I actually had him in my top-3 wish list that year in 03. I wanted him real bad. A source of mine said that there was a trade brewing between the Rangers and Flames to move up, but it never came to be. I didn't think Coburn would be as good as him, that still puzzles me, as to why Atlanta picked Coburn over Phaneuf. Suter I think got the boost up in the draft because of his last name. I still think he'll be a good defender, but I can't say that I would have taken him over Phaneuf on that day. Imagine how Nashville would look with Phaneuf, and the poor man's version of him, Shea Weber... that would be scary.

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To me it seems that Phaneuf is still pretty raw and doing some amazing things whereas at this point Bo is almost to the point of what you see is what you get. In the end I just think that Phaneuf can do everything Bo can and more just creates too much of a gap. Phaneuf is an EXTREMELY rare combination. Calgary isn't likely to ever let that kid go, whereas Bo I can see as being far more "touchable" so to speak.
I'm not sure about that, Bouwmeester being near his peak. That's the kind of game he's going to play, but I'm sure his offensive numbers will go up in time. Remember, Florida is the 5th worst team in the east in goals scored. They need some help up front. Horton is young. Olesz is young. Weiss is young, and still has potential. I haven't given up on him yet. Frolik if he ever gets his stuff straight could be a force. Stewart can be a good power forward. McArdle could possibly be a gritty 2nd/3rd liner with scoring touch. They've got a good future on offense, so I'm not ready to say that Jay-Bo has peaked.

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01-28-2007, 06:30 PM
  #88
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I don't know about that. Lundquist has been up and down this year. Not stellar by any means. If it continues, you never know.
Well that's a different story. My opinion on trading Montoya is based on the fact that I think Lundqvist is a legit #1 goalie for the next 10 years. If you don't think Lundqvist will keep up his play than yea, it does make sense to keep Montoya around.

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01-28-2007, 06:35 PM
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But that's thing Gretz: if we can say Phaneuf is the better offensive player and his physical side adds so much AND factor in the aspect that he is two years younger, I really don't see how they are close.

If we're talking about a 10-15 point differnce, two years less development and him being one mean SOB that's a pretty big difference right there.

Which I think gets back to the original conversation that Bo is a very good young defenseman, but in Phaneuf's class he is not.

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01-28-2007, 06:40 PM
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But that's thing Gretz: if we can say Phaneuf is the better offensive player and his physical side adds so much AND factor in the aspect that he is two years younger, I really don't see how they are close.

If we're talking about a 10-15 point differnce, two years less development and him being one mean SOB that's a pretty big difference right there.

Which I think gets back to the original conversation that Bo is a very good young defenseman, but in Phaneuf's class he is not.
The thing is, defensively, Bouwmeester is just as good. He skates just as well as Phaneuf, and can match up against any forward in the league, big or small, just like Phaneuf. I think Bouwmeester's on ice vision might actually be better as well, and from what I've seen, he makes better passes. I think Phaneuf is a high-risk, high-reward type player, while Bouwmeester is not. It's kinda like the comparisons on these boards from over the summer between Jack Johnson and Marc Staal.

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01-28-2007, 06:45 PM
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The thing is, defensively, Bouwmeester is just as good. He skates just as well as Phaneuf, and can match up against any forward in the league, big or small, just like Phaneuf. I think Bouwmeester's on ice vision might actually be better as well, and from what I've seen, he makes better passes. I think Phaneuf is a high-risk, high-reward type player, while Bouwmeester is not. It's kinda like the comparisons on these boards from over the summer between Jack Johnson and Marc Staal.
But there again Gretz that still doesn't add up.

He's just as good defensivly, but inferior physically and offensivly.

So he's not even superior in any one area, at best he's just as good.

At best in some areas Bo is just as good, in others there is a noticeable advantage towards Phaneuf who once again is still two years younger and more raw than Bo.

So what happens when they are the same age or Phaneuf developes out of that raw stage? When you start to add it up that doesn't paint a very close picture at all.

From everything you just described to me Phaneuf seems like the better guy now despite being younger and more raw. That doesn't paint a good picture for the future when that gap is very likely to only widen.

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01-28-2007, 07:00 PM
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But there again Gretz that still doesn't add up.

He's just as good defensivly, but inferior physically and offensivly.

So he's not even superior in any one area, at best he's just as good.

At best in some areas Bo is just as good, in others there is a noticeable advantage towards Phaneuf who once again is still two years younger and more raw than Bo.

So what happens when they are the same age or Phaneuf developes out of that raw stage? When you start to add it up that doesn't paint a very close picture at all.

From everything you just described to me Phaneuf seems like the better guy now despite being younger and more raw. That doesn't paint a good picture for the future when that gap is very likely to only widen.

Offensively, it's very close if you ask me. Phaneuf has the potential to be better, but that's because he's the kind of defender that will go end-to-end more often. I don't think it's a matter of Bouwmeester not being able to do that, I think it's just that he's not overly aggressive, like Phaneuf. I think Bouwmeester has the talent to be just as good offensively, but more is asked of him defensively than Phaneuf. Bouwmeester does not have the defensive help that Phaneuf does, and if he did, I think you would see Bouwmeester do a lot more with the puck, like Phaneuf. There is no comparison physically, Phaneuf is the best open-ice hitter I've seen since Stevens. He is a complete monster when it comes to that. Otherwise, I just don't see Phaneuf being that far ahead in any other asset of the game.

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01-28-2007, 07:10 PM
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What about Frolik or Olesz straight up for Montoya? You gotta build from the pipes out.

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01-28-2007, 07:21 PM
  #94
Edge
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Offensively, it's very close if you ask me. Phaneuf has the potential to be better, but that's because he's the kind of defender that will go end-to-end more often. I don't think it's a matter of Bouwmeester not being able to do that, I think it's just that he's not overly aggressive, like Phaneuf. I think Bouwmeester has the talent to be just as good offensively, but more is asked of him defensively than Phaneuf. Bouwmeester does not have the defensive help that Phaneuf does, and if he did, I think you would see Bouwmeester do a lot more with the puck, like Phaneuf. There is no comparison physically, Phaneuf is the best open-ice hitter I've seen since Stevens. He is a complete monster when it comes to that. Otherwise, I just don't see Phaneuf being that far ahead in any other asset of the game.
But I don't think being the type who goes end to end is a bad thing. I think Phaneuf is on the better team for sure, but I wouldn't call his style overly aggressive. I also don't think more is being asked of BO on defense. The guy Phaneuf plays for in Calgary is the type who demands a complete game from him. I think we're equating his ability to jump into the play with that it somehow has to equal a defensive deficency which is not the case here. Simply put that would not be tolerated on that team.

So the numbers are superior at a younger age, the physical aspects are better a younger age and and the defense is at least even. I still don't see it.

And one of the big key factors in this is at we're debating two guys with two years between them now, I don't see how that gap gets any closer as Phaneuf won't be to where Bo is until the year 2009.

At best it seems we can say that Bo is as good on defense as Phaneuf, despite being older and MAYBE if everything falls into place he MIGHT be as good offensivly. That still leaves out physical aspects, intimidation and where both players would be at the same age.

Phaneuf is no worse than slightly better than Bo at a younger age, that gap still looks to widen if we put them at the same age.

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Old
01-28-2007, 07:50 PM
  #95
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
But I don't think being the type who goes end to end is a bad thing. I think Phaneuf is on the better team for sure, but I wouldn't call his style overly aggressive. I also don't think more is being asked of BO on defense. The guy Phaneuf plays for in Calgary is the type who demands a complete game from him. I think we're equating his ability to jump into the play with that it somehow has to equal a defensive deficency which is not the case here. Simply put that would not be tolerated on that team.
I don't think it's a bad thing either, I also don't think that he's better offensively because of it. I think if Bouwmeester did it as much as Phaneuf, the offensive numbers between the two would be very similar.

I think more is being asked of Jay-Bo on defense because of the fact that Florida doesn't have the caliber of defenders that Calgary has.

I agree with you on the style of play Phaneuf has to play, a complete game, and I never said that his ability to jump into the play is creating a defensive deficiency. What I'm saying is that he's a high-risk high-reward type player. He'll jump into the play more to create offense while leaving his position. I'm watching Chicago vs Calgary on center ice as we speak, and I've seen Phaneuf lead the rush three times already.

What I'm saying is that Bouwmeester is more reserved in that sense, and will not do that as much as Phaneuf will. We might just never know if Bouwmeester is just as talented as Phaneuf. Bouwmeester from what I've seen is not the kind of player to lead the rush constantly. Does that necessarily mean that Bouwmeester is not as talented offensively as Phaneuf? Saying that would be making a blanket statement, if you ask me.

Quote:
So the numbers are superior at a younger age, the physical aspects are better a younger age and and the defense is at least even. I still don't see it.

And one of the big key factors in this is at we're debating two guys with two years between them now, I don't see how that gap gets any closer as Phaneuf won't be to where Bo is until the year 2009.

At best it seems we can say that Bo is as good on defense as Phaneuf, despite being older and MAYBE if everything falls into place he MIGHT be as good offensivly. That still leaves out physical aspects, intimidation and where both players would be at the same age.

Phaneuf is no worse than slightly better than Bo at a younger age, that gap still looks to widen if we put them at the same age.
Intimidation is not a skill, it's a side-factor. Because Scott Stevens was more intimidating, that meant that he was a better defender than Ray Bourque? Physical aspects are one thing, but intimidation is a completely different story, I don't believe that makes a player better than another. It's basically a reputation.

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Old
01-28-2007, 08:16 PM
  #96
bobbop
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Horton for Montoya is not fair value for us at all. Montoya isn't going to get Horton.
This is a fair point but it is a good starting point for a possible deal. The thing Montoya would do that perhaps no other player can do for the Panthers is start to create a media buzz. The Panthers need a goaltender and a drawing card. He may not draw Cuban fans day one, but he will intrigue the media and that coupled with the fact that there are many 3rd and 4th generation Cubans that don't look a lot different than you and me will certainly stir up some fan interest.

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Old
01-28-2007, 10:02 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
What about Frolik or Olesz straight up for Montoya? You gotta build from the pipes out.
Uh...no.

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Old
01-28-2007, 10:06 PM
  #98
broadwayblue
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Originally Posted by squilber View Post
Uh...no.
If you don't want to deal Frolik or Olesz you ain't a gettin no Montoya. Sorry.

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Old
01-29-2007, 02:16 AM
  #99
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NEW Montoya-FLA Proposal

To New York Rangers:
Todd Bertuzzi
Ruslan Salei
Jozef Stumpel
Alex Auld
'07 2nd Round Pick

To Florida Panthers:
Al Montoya
Matt Cullen
Kevin Weekes
Marek Malik
Karel Rachunek

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Old
01-29-2007, 02:26 AM
  #100
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Trades of that magnitude will never happen again, i can almost guarantee you that.

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