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Old
01-26-2007, 12:04 PM
  #101
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That is a first around here.Not too long ago many people didn't want Rachunek on the team or wanted him banished on waivers.Rachunek will be a group II this summer and eligible for group III in 2008.It seems Rachunek might be the healthy scratch tomorrow.His agent Mark Gandler will want a new contract this summer.Let some other team give it him
I don't think Rachunek's been anything special this year, but viewed in the context of ranger's defensmen this year I think he has been one of the more valuable. Once again, not someone I'm apposed to moving, but not someone I would want to just dump either (as I would a Malik.)

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01-26-2007, 12:35 PM
  #102
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Rangers will probably deal some combo of Rachunek, Pock, Malik, or Rozy.

my guss is, Malik and Rachunek...possibly.

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01-26-2007, 02:59 PM
  #103
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Rookie callup defenseman Dan Girardi skated with Fedor Tyutin again, so it appears Thomas Pock might sit tomorrow.

Possible explanations: The Rangers are trying to determine which veteran defenseman (Rachunek, Malik) they can package with a prospect or pick for forward help, because they know Pock can play
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/blog/

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01-26-2007, 03:01 PM
  #104
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I don't think Rachunek's been anything special this year, but viewed in the context of ranger's defensmen this year I think he has been one of the more valuable. Once again, not someone I'm apposed to moving, but not someone I would want to just dump either (as I would a Malik.)
I agree with that.Rachunek is only 27 years old,can shoot righthanded,skate and shoot the puck.His money is not unreasonable.I would trade him and get back another asset to avoid another pissing match with Mark Gandler like they had after the lockout ended

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01-29-2007, 09:30 AM
  #105
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Maloney on WFAN and Forsberg

OK so last week Don Maloney goes on WFAN and tells us how great the future is, how over the next few days, weeks, months, years, whatever, we're going to see all these great kids we have developing in Hartford start to play and contribute.

Some of us (including me) are skeptical, pointing out that in six years this management team has NEVER COMMITTED TO YOUTH WHATSOEVER, so why are we to believe they'll start now? To some of us it reeks of management covering their butt, saying that while we're so bad now, help is eventually on the way, so sit back, wait, don''t criticize anything, and everything will be fine.

Others come on to defend Maloney, making fair points that the fire sale which started three years ago should just starting to make in impact in the NHL now, so we need to give them more time.

And what happens now? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHICH YOUNG KIDS SHOULD BE TRADED FOR PETER FORSBERG, AN OLD, SEMI-BROKEN DOWN PLAYER WHO BECOMES A FREE AGENT AT THE END OF THE SEASON!!!!!

Are you kidding me???

We're going to go back down that same path of destruction that we've been traveling on for a decade now!!! What happened to the youth movement? What happened to all the great kids that are coming up? What happened to 'we won't sacrifice the future for the present'?

AND WE'RE ACTUALLY COMING ON HERE DEBATING WHICH YOUNG PLAYERS SHOULD BE TRADED FOR THIS GUY!!!

How about none? How about we do what Maloney said we would do? Or are we all to agree that was just another bunch of BS for the stupid fans to swallow?

How much further is Sather going to drive us into the ground before he's done? He's pointing us in the direction of 5-10 more years of no hope whatsoever.

When do we agree Maloney lied to us?

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01-29-2007, 09:38 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
OK so last week Don Maloney goes on WFAN and tells us how great the future is, how over the next few days, weeks, months, years, whatever, we're going to see all these great kids we have developing in Hartford start to play and contribute.

Some of us (including me) are skeptical, pointing out that in six years this management team has NEVER COMMITTED TO YOUTH WHATSOEVER, so why are we to believe they'll start now? To some of us it reeks of management covering their butt, saying that while we're so bad now, help is eventually on the way, so sit back, wait, don''t criticize anything, and everything will be fine.

Others come on to defend Maloney, making fair points that the fire sale which started three years ago should just starting to make in impact in the NHL now, so we need to give them more time.

And what happens now? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHICH YOUNG KIDS SHOULD BE TRADED FOR PETER FORSBERG, AN OLD, SEMI-BROKEN DOWN PLAYER WHO BECOMES A FREE AGENT AT THE END OF THE SEASON!!!!!

Are you kidding me???

We're going to go back down that same path of destruction that we've been traveling on for a decade now!!! What happened to the youth movement? What happened to all the great kids that are coming up? What happened to 'we won't sacrifice the future for the present'?

AND WE'RE ACTUALLY COMING ON HERE DEBATING WHICH YOUNG PLAYERS SHOULD BE TRADED FOR THIS GUY!!!

How about none? How about we do what Maloney said we would do? Or are we all to agree that was just another bunch of BS for the stupid fans to swallow?

How much further is Sather going to drive us into the ground before he's done? He's pointing us in the direction of 5-10 more years of no hope whatsoever.

When do we agree Maloney lied to us?
If youth is traded for over the hill veterans

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01-29-2007, 09:43 AM
  #107
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Err, a few things.

First, consider how much youth the Rangers had on the team last season. Quite a few rookies, and some playing important positions. Most of them are still on the team, and you don't HAVE to introduce 6 new rookies each year or something.

I'm not terribly pleased with their record of introducing youth this season, but the fact is that they don't have a clear cut top player who they can ultimately feel comfortable sticking on a top line.

Many of us would argue that they should give someone like Dawes or Immonen a shot to adjust to such a position, but if the Rangers aren't ready to do that then it's still not an indicator that they never will. I may disagree with it and think they should give a guy like Immonen some more time, but it could be they just aren't high on him and would give someone like Dubinsky more time when he's ready.

Second, you're talking like the trade speculating we do on this board is what the Rangers brass is actually doing. Yeah, we talk about who could be traded for what, but that's not an accurate reflection of what the Rangers are doing. We don't know at all what the Rangers are doing, and stories from reporters are always suspect at best. The Rangers could be interested in Forsberg for the right price, but not be willing to trade any youth of importance. All our yammering on the board is just fans making up crap. Don't take it to be the literal truth of what the Rangers plans are.

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01-29-2007, 09:53 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
When do we agree Maloney lied to us?
Listen carefully and you'll realize that Maloney didn't really say anything. He said that they would not make a deal unless it's for the future. Well, they could very well trade for Forsberg and sign him to an extension. That would be a move for the future.

Not advocating but you can't get any kind of read on this administration's mindset by what they say (or don't say).

I've given up trying.

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01-29-2007, 09:54 AM
  #109
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Some people are getting too crazy over these Forsberg rumors. I'll tell you right away that I am a big advocate for getting Forsberg because he's a gamer, he's a winner, and he has championships to back that up. I also believe he still have some left in the tank. He's still one of the best players in the world when he's healthy.

Ok now the problem is the cost. Let's face it there is no one out there better than Forsberg on the market to fill our HUGE second line center gap. No sorry Conroy won't do it and as most have been putting it he'd be a downgrade. I truely believe that the Rangers are one top notch center away from being a cup contender. I know some may not agree with that belief because hey the Rangers after finishing 4th in the conference last year are now fighting for the last spot in the conference this year so some may not have faith in this team right now. But I do. Not only would adding Forsberg give us more offensive on even strength, make our terrible PP better, and could be used in the shootout, he would give Shanny a real foward to play with. For awhile Shanny was hot hence which is why he made the all star team, however, he couldnt do it all himself forever and he eventually died down. My feeling is with the fact that Forsberg is indeed a risk with his injury problems that should give the Rangers and most teams leverage. Forsberg has a no trade clause which would knock some interested teams off the radar if he doesnt like them and with the rumors saying he'd waive it to go to the Rangers that gives the Rangers a little more leverage. I don't believe Sather and company are dumb enough to give up the future for this guy and Sather has found ways to make good trades without giving up his top prospects. So everyone should stop worrying about who the Rangers are gonna deal for him because I think it'll come down to Immonen, Helminen, Rachunek, and a 2nd round pick. The Flyers cant possibly ask for a lot considering his injury risks and the fact he can leave right after the season/playoffs.

Now with all that said the Rangers would still have some tools to work with if they want to look into acquiring a younger foward in either Nagy or Zherdev to play on that 2nd line. I know many will believe this unrealistic but I dont think it is. I think Sather could pull off acquiring Nagy and Forsberg. Nagy is still relatively young, the Rangers have cap space to re-sign him and if you add these two this team will take off.

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01-29-2007, 09:56 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Listen carefully and you'll realize that Maloney didn't really say anything. He said that they would not make a deal unless it's for the future. Well, they could very well trade for Forsberg and sign him to an extension. That would be a move for the future.

Not advocating but you can't get any kind of read on this administration's mindset by what they say (or don't say).

I've given up trying.
I understand what you're saying, but you're talking semantics here. If they trade Marc Staal for Forsberg, and Forsberg signs and plays for another year, does that mean they traded for the future, when Staal has 10-15 years left in his tank?

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01-29-2007, 10:03 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Err, a few things.

First, consider how much youth the Rangers had on the team last season. Quite a few rookies, and some playing important positions. Most of them are still on the team, and you don't HAVE to introduce 6 new rookies each year or something.

I'm not terribly pleased with their record of introducing youth this season, but the fact is that they don't have a clear cut top player who they can ultimately feel comfortable sticking on a top line.

Many of us would argue that they should give someone like Dawes or Immonen a shot to adjust to such a position, but if the Rangers aren't ready to do that then it's still not an indicator that they never will. I may disagree with it and think they should give a guy like Immonen some more time, but it could be they just aren't high on him and would give someone like Dubinsky more time when he's ready.

Second, you're talking like the trade speculating we do on this board is what the Rangers brass is actually doing. Yeah, we talk about who could be traded for what, but that's not an accurate reflection of what the Rangers are doing. We don't know at all what the Rangers are doing, and stories from reporters are always suspect at best. The Rangers could be interested in Forsberg for the right price, but not be willing to trade any youth of importance. All our yammering on the board is just fans making up crap. Don't take it to be the literal truth of what the Rangers plans are.
Yeah I know you can't criticize the team until they actually make the trade, but the media is talking about it. It's not like one of us made the rumor up sitting in our den.

And the bottom line is, this is the way Sather has done business here. Taking shortcuts, trading for guys who have proven themselves in the past and MAY OR MAY NOT have something left in the tank.

Add in the Renney factor, and the fact that in order to dress Girardi they sat Pock instead of a guy like Malik, who had yet another horrible game in Philly.

And add in the Jason Krog factor too. Claiming a waiver-level player and plugging him into your second line. Boggles the mind.

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01-29-2007, 10:05 AM
  #112
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I understand what you're saying, but you're talking semantics here. If they trade Marc Staal for Forsberg, and Forsberg signs and plays for another year, does that mean they traded for the future, when Staal has 10-15 years left in his tank?
To you and me it's semantics.

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01-29-2007, 10:06 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I understand what you're saying, but you're talking semantics here. If they trade Marc Staal for Forsberg, and Forsberg signs and plays for another year, does that mean they traded for the future, when Staal has 10-15 years left in his tank?

Yeah, if they trade Staal for Forsberg then it would be a monumentally stupid move. But there's no reason to get all worked up about when the biggest evidence of something like that actually happening is chatter on a fan message board.

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01-29-2007, 10:08 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Some people are getting too crazy over these Forsberg rumors. I'll tell you right away that I am a big advocate for getting Forsberg because he's a gamer, he's a winner, and he has championships to back that up. I also believe he still have some left in the tank. He's still one of the best players in the world when he's healthy.

Ok now the problem is the cost. Let's face it there is no one out there better than Forsberg on the market to fill our HUGE second line center gap. No sorry Conroy won't do it and as most have been putting it he'd be a downgrade. I truely believe that the Rangers are one top notch center away from being a cup contender. I know some may not agree with that belief because hey the Rangers after finishing 4th in the conference last year are now fighting for the last spot in the conference this year so some may not have faith in this team right now. But I do. Not only would adding Forsberg give us more offensive on even strength, make our terrible PP better, and could be used in the shootout, he would give Shanny a real foward to play with. For awhile Shanny was hot hence which is why he made the all star team, however, he couldnt do it all himself forever and he eventually died down. My feeling is with the fact that Forsberg is indeed a risk with his injury problems that should give the Rangers and most teams leverage. Forsberg has a no trade clause which would knock some interested teams off the radar if he doesnt like them and with the rumors saying he'd waive it to go to the Rangers that gives the Rangers a little more leverage. I don't believe Sather and company are dumb enough to give up the future for this guy and Sather has found ways to make good trades without giving up his top prospects. So everyone should stop worrying about who the Rangers are gonna deal for him because I think it'll come down to Immonen, Helminen, Rachunek, and a 2nd round pick. The Flyers cant possibly ask for a lot considering his injury risks and the fact he can leave right after the season/playoffs.

Now with all that said the Rangers would still have some tools to work with if they want to look into acquiring a younger foward in either Nagy or Zherdev to play on that 2nd line. I know many will believe this unrealistic but I dont think it is. I think Sather could pull off acquiring Nagy and Forsberg. Nagy is still relatively young, the Rangers have cap space to re-sign him and if you add these two this team will take off.
Two disagreements. First, even with a Forsberg helping the power play, the defense is still terrible, and Lundqvist is not playing well enough to erase their mistakes. Maybe there is no goalie alive who can play THAT well. And don't forget, Forsberg is a BROKEN-DOWN hockey player. Nobody knows if he even has a half a season left in his tank, with all his injuries.

And I do believe Sather is dumb enough to give up the future for this guy. The man is just dumb.

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01-29-2007, 10:09 AM
  #115
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Yeah, if they trade Staal for Forsberg then it would be a monumentally stupid move. But there's no reason to get all worked up about when the biggest evidence of something like that actually happening is chatter on a fan message board.
Do you doubt that the Rangers are even inquiring about Forsberg?

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01-29-2007, 10:12 AM
  #116
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Yeah I know you can't criticize the team until they actually make the trade, but the media is talking about it. It's not like one of us made the rumor up sitting in our den.
The media is talking about it because that's how the media gets money. The Rangers are ALWAYS heavily involved in big name trade rumors, even if they truly aren't that interested in the player. As one of the high profile teams in the league, that's just how it is. And in the past, there have been times where it's turned out they haven't been nearly as interested as the media would have us believe.

Again, the media talking about it means little, because the media will talk regardless when it comes to the Rangers and big name players.

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And the bottom line is, this is the way Sather has done business here. Taking shortcuts, trading for guys who have proven themselves in the past and MAY OR MAY NOT have something left in the tank.
Eh, yes and no. Last year they didn't go out and break the bank trying to pick up players for the playoffs. Yeah they took a risk on Ozo, but got him pretty cheap.

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Add in the Renney factor, and the fact that in order to dress Girardi they sat Pock instead of a guy like Malik, who had yet another horrible game in Philly.
I agree that they should have sat Malik, but there are a few things to consider. One is that they could be trying to trade Malik, and it doesn't help to sit the guy you're trying to trade. Brooks also touched on this before the Philly game when he said if Pock sat for Girardi, don't assume that Girardi will be replacing Pock in the lineup and that he felt it would be more of a move to continue to evaluate the veteran defensemen the team feels it could trade.

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And add in the Jason Krog factor too. Claiming a waiver-level player and plugging him into your second line. Boggles the mind.
Look at his AHL stats...there's some reason to hope that Krog could suddenly get it and provide some offense. Yeah it was a shot in the dark, but didn't cost them anything at the same time. I'd definitely like to see someone better than Krog, but if the Rangers aren't gonna call Immonen up, it seems pretty likely that they don't feel anyone else is ready for a center spot either.

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01-29-2007, 10:20 AM
  #117
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I listened to this interview and when Maloney was directly asked if they would trade Staal for Forsberg he outright laughed........

Now we may all have our criticisms of Maloney and Sather and a fair bit of cynisim on this board is certainly called for, but in the face of that reaction by Maloney any trade for Staal is extremely unlikely.

If that trade does happen then any shred of credibility this organization has goes out the window.

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01-29-2007, 10:22 AM
  #118
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dave4- I understand your concern. But I wouldn't worry all that much.

First of all I think this Forsberg getting moved story is mostly a media creation.

Philly media are pushing for Forsberg to be moved for a PO run with another team with the notion that he still would resign with them this summer.

That makes allot of sense for Philly, but it have made just as much sense for all poor teams with vets in the same situation for the last 15 years, and I am not sure if I can think of one example were a vet have wanted to abandon his team for a short run with another organization. Forsberg have also only played for 3 organizations in his life, from his birth, MoDo, Qubeck/Colorado and Philly.

I can see Forsberg getting moved if Philly still wants to move him, despite not getting him back this summer. Which I don't think they want to do.

Or if Forsberg asks for a trade, despite Philly not wanting to move him, which I doubt he will do.

But I just don't buy the whole thing about renting him to another team. Every single player in this league cares about his reputation. What would Forsbergs be if he is sent to Montreal for a good package, gets bigger trouble with his foot and sucks for them in the PO's and they go nowere, and Forsberg returns to Philly to play for them again next season. I don't see him gooing anywhere without commiting longterm for that team.

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01-29-2007, 10:26 AM
  #119
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Your on the mark here Lev.

The Rangers are involved in almost every rumor about every trade.

Anything the Rangers do (or might do)is always at the top of the NHL news wire.

Meanwhile the conflama continues.....it's pretty amusing.

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01-29-2007, 10:31 AM
  #120
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I am not gooing to say that I have no interest in Forsberg.

I think forzenrubber are right when he said, "it aren't happening", but beeing a optemist I can't help to dream.

To some extent at least I feel that Forsberg signed with Philly for 5m per, taking a pretty big paycut, that means that Philly owes him, not the other way around.

I would take him if we can get him cheap. Like Cullen, Immonen and Pck. I am confident that we aren't giving up much in Immonen, Cullen could easily be replaced on the 3rd line and I don't think Pck have all that much upside.

I am also don't belive that we really will be able to get anything else for Immonen and Pck.

Though in the end I know thats just a dream...

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01-29-2007, 10:37 AM
  #121
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I am not gooing to say that I have no interest in Forsberg.

I think forzenrubber are right when he said, "it aren't happening", but beeing a optemist I can't help to dream.

To some extent at least I feel that Forsberg signed with Philly for 5m per, taking a pretty big paycut, that means that Philly owes him, not the other way around.

I would take him if we can get him cheap. Like Cullen, Immonen and Pck. I am confident that we aren't giving up much in Immonen, Cullen could easily be replaced on the 3rd line and I don't think Pck have all that much upside.

I am also don't belive that we really will be able to get anything else for Immonen and Pck.

Though in the end I know thats just a dream...
Interesting, Ola. So you've already singled out two players from our vaunted 'youth movement' who won't really help the Rangers much in the long run. So is all this 'help' Maloney was telling us was coming from Hartford a mirage?

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01-29-2007, 10:37 AM
  #122
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Amazing how Maloney is always talking about relying on the young guys but the final product never shows it. ::sighs::: maybe THIS time his words will ring true and we'll see some pack boys come up to give this team a jolt..
maybe we should MAKE maloney GM & head coach....

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01-29-2007, 10:39 AM
  #123
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Your on the mark here Lev.

The Rangers are involved in almost every rumor about every trade.

Anything the Rangers do (or might do)is always at the top of the NHL news wire.

Meanwhile the conflama continues.....it's pretty amusing.
Everybody wants & wishes they were us.. *sigh* ahhhh .. thats why they hate us.

Thats all.

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01-29-2007, 10:39 AM
  #124
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Your on the mark here Lev.

The Rangers are involved in almost every rumor about every trade.

Anything the Rangers do (or might do)is always at the top of the NHL news wire.

Meanwhile the conflama continues.....it's pretty amusing.
Yeah. I still remember the 'rumors' that Espo was going to trade Ridley and Miller for Marcel Dionne.

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01-29-2007, 10:45 AM
  #125
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Everybody wants & wishes they were us.. *sigh* ahhhh .. thats why they hate us.

Thats all.
I think it's more like everyone likes to trade with us because we have a history for taking on older players and giving up youth.

Why on earth would teams wish they were us? Our record is horrible.

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